AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Quite a big part of a managers job is to do as little damage as possible TBH. Obviously the top ones do much more than that, but I think there's a lot of truth in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Makes you wonder why anyone licked Ferguson's arse when it's that easy. He spent hundreds of millions anarl. is that a response to me? either way it's a fucking terrible post Not as bad as suggesting that good players just need to be played in the right position and success is then inevitable. well i was being flippant, see my response to brett for more detail, and the point wasn't that success would be inevitable playing players in the right place - it was that in doing so he would have had a much better chance of avoiding the abject failure of last season i thought that was fucking obvious, apparently not The abject failure of last season was an awful run of results from early November to mid January when we were forced into starting games with Sammy Ameobi and Shane Ferguson, as well as Williamson, Simpson and their ilk. We lost 10 out of 13 following a 10 game run at the start of the season where only Man u and Chelsea could beat us. Playing players where they play is a good start, but even in their most favoured positions, some players are not good enough. That can also tend to lead to a lack of faith from the manager and the desperate plugging of holes by juggling those payers who are good enough for the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 "All he has to do is pick the team" is just a throw away term used when a manager's success is what it is primarily because of the players at his disposal, it obviously isn't a suggestion that that is, in a literal sense, all he has to do. You have to assume that he has at least the basic abilities, roles and responsibilities of a football manager. thank christ and what ian w just said, pardew did the opposite of that with his fear-based approach last year...imo he did more damage than good last year in almost every sense Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 "All he has to do is pick the team" is just a throw away term used when a manager's success is what it is primarily because of the players at his disposal, it obviously isn't a suggestion that that is, in a literal sense, all he has to do. You have to assume that he has at least the basic abilities, roles and responsibilities of a football manager. thank christ and what ian w just said, pardew did the opposite of that with his fear-based approach last year...imo he did more damage than good last year in almost every sense Yep, he definitely wasn't able to put the problems right, and in some ways made a lot of them worse. For someone who comes across as confident, he actually seems to lack the belief needed to make positive changes at times. I was hoping that with a good start he could improve on that this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 It wasn't just about picking players out of position, something he's done regularly in his time here, he also made the Allardyce-esque mistake of trying to play a physical game with technical players. Something he himself recognised by changing to a passing game midway through the season. HF can defend him all he likes, it still won't change the fact he picked James Perch and Tiote in the same midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew's made loads of mistakes. He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong. I'm not defending those mistakes. I'm giving him credit when he gets it right. The very least he deserves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew was a big part to blame for last season and made a lot of errors however you're an idiot if you think the solution was that simple. oh ok then, as i'm an idiot perhaps you can enlighten me how everything has changed so suddenly then given that we have the same manager the same players (+ remy but he's barely played a full game total) the same coaching staff he talked about playing passing football last year yet we played the opposite, i personally attribute that to his playing certain people who consistently underperformed last year when all evidence said drop them combined with his tactical approach to be defensive and not lose games and playing people in the wrong place...the players were never suited for the style of football last year, it was so obvious man of course it's not as simple as just playing 11 players but perhaps it's as simple as being forced to play anita which imo has been the catalyst for us to realise we're able to pass the ball around short, keep possession and attack teams properly....this is the same anita he chose to overlook last season even when he was the only positive thing we had around the holiday period at the end of the day if he's getting credit for the last few games, he deserves everything that comes with how bad last season was look at it another way, vs. villa if he'd played cabaye in the anita role, cisse in the remy role and sissoko as a number 10 do you think we'd have performed as well? neither do i, it's the type of s*** he was pulling all last year though...playing players in the right place can make a massive difference man I banged on all summer how last year was just a total write off imo. Everything was going wrong for us and Pardew didn’t have the tactical knowledge or experience to stop the sour run and it just snowballed. He started the season with demands from Ba not playing on the wing, we were very effective with him out there and this was the catalyst to where it all went wrong, we never replicated that balance ever again. As soon as Remy signed I said on here that we will go straight back to that formation and look a far better side, that’s exactly what happened. People on here still doubted we would do that and insisted hoof ball was the future yet you could see over pre-season we were passing the ball a lot more around the back 4 then we have ever done and it was clear we were trying to implement this style of play. Pardew’s got his squad fully fit and majority have had full pre-seasons which has helped us massively. Surely it’s time to stop doubting and just get behind them now and actually come to terms with the fact we aren’t this relegation battling team from last season so many claimed we were? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Playing players where they play is a good start, but even in their most favoured positions, some players are not good enough. That can also tend to lead to a lack of faith from the manager and the desperate plugging of holes by juggling those payers who are good enough for the league. how would you know when he's playing people out of position and gameplan that does not suit any of them except Ba (until he left)? you're totally hung up 'playing in the right places' now but i've already said his woeful gameplan vs. the players he had at his disposal, plus his tendency to stick with players who weren't performing, plus playing people in the wrong place were all contributory factors in how awful last year was but keep sticking the one thing i said if you like i always think back to anita when we were on that bad run and cabaye got injured, he came in and played well, was easily our best player at that time and was the main driver in any decent football we played...his reward was to be shitcanned to the bench the moment cabaye returned never to be seen again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew's made loads of mistakes. He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong. I'm not defending those mistakes. I'm giving him credit when he gets it right. The very least he deserves. I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Surely it’s time to stop doubting and just get behind them now and actually come to terms with the fact we aren’t this relegation battling team from last season so many claimed we were? nah absolutely, i'm with him as long as he doesn't fuck this up now...however we got here we're here and he has an opportunity which i sincerely hope he takes it was inevitable but i'm more on his side now because him succeeding would stick it to ashley and kinnear which i would really like (as well as it meaning we'd succeed too, obviously) uncharted territory for pards isn't it, will this now be his second longest managerial job? he's certainly never been around this long in the PL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Surely it’s time to stop doubting and just get behind them now and actually come to terms with the fact we aren’t this relegation battling team from last season so many claimed we were? nah absolutely, i'm with him as long as he doesn't f*** this up now...however we got here we're here and he has an opportunity which i sincerely hope he takes it was inevitable but i'm more on his side now because him succeeding would stick it to ashley and kinnear which i would really like (as well as it meaning we'd succeed too, obviously) uncharted territory for pards isn't it, will this now be his second longest managerial job? he's certainly never been around this long in the PL Welcome aboard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew's made loads of mistakes. He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong. I'm not defending those mistakes. I'm giving him credit when he gets it right. The very least he deserves. I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs. Not just his weekend. I think we've been on an upward trajectory (generally) since late January (since the window closed), even while being disgusted by some performances such as the Mackems and Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew's made loads of mistakes. He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong. I'm not defending those mistakes. I'm giving him credit when he gets it right. The very least he deserves. I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs. Not just his weekend. I think we've been on an upward trajectory (generally) since late January (since the window closed), even while being disgusted by some performances such as the Mackems and Liverpool. Well that's not true at all. We've been vastly inconsistent since January and even with all the new signings we were a game or two away from relegation. This is such a fickle game, it's unbelievable. Two wins and people are forgetting we were close to going down last season with Krul, Colo, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Santon, Cisse + 3 or 4 important new january signings. Take Ben Arfa off the team and we'll struggle badly again, Pardew at least has tried to have the team play a passing game the last two games, so I'll give him credit for that. But he still insisted in starting Shola in the PL just two weeks ago so it's not like he's been faultless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew's made loads of mistakes. He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong. I'm not defending those mistakes. I'm giving him credit when he gets it right. The very least he deserves. I think most people here have given him credit for getting it right this week tbf. Yes there are some who are still sceptical but that's because of his record last season which could have got him deservedly sacked at a lot of clubs. Not just his weekend. I think we've been on an upward trajectory (generally) since late January (since the window closed), even while being disgusted by some performances such as the Mackems and Liverpool. Well that's not true at all. We've been vastly inconsistent since January and even with all the new signings we were a game or two away from relegation. This is such a fickle game, it's unbelievable. Two wins and people are forgetting we were close to going down last season with Krul, Colo, Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Santon, Cisse + 3 or 4 important new january signings. Take Ben Arfa off the team and we'll struggle badly again, Pardew at least has tried to have the team play a passing game the last two games, so I'll give him credit for that. But he still insisted in starting Shola in the PL just two weeks ago so it's not like he's been faultless. In more than 7 months, Pardew has lost 8 games. 5 of them against top 6 opposition.... Manchester City x 2 Arsenal Tottenham Hotspur Liverpool Of the remaining three, two were on the road. Swansea City (A) Wigan Athletic (A) Sunderland (H) The Sunderland game stands alone as his most shameful moment. Outside the league he also lost to Benfica in the Europa QF, which there was no shame in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Liverpool weren't top 6 opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Think we need to tone down the Pardew praise for a while lads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Liverpool weren't top 6 opposition. They were on form Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I just want to point out one thing: Pardew has excellent man management skills. Probably the best since SBR. It is not an easy job to bring colo and cabaye back to the team and perform as usual. It isn't. Throughout his time here he has protected the players extremely well, and the one he criticize most is ben arfa who is playing his best football. I honestly dont think there is lots of manager better than him in this area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 In 2013 in the PL Pardew's record last season was: 6W 2D 9L 20p from a possible 54p. Wouldn't necessarily call this an upward trajectory. We've also been shameful for two games this season while playing well two games. Like I said inconsistent results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanSkÃrare Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew's made loads of mistakes. He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong. I'm not defending those mistakes. I'm giving him credit when he gets it right. The very least he deserves. What? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Some ridiculous stuff in here now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 I just want to point out one thing: Pardew has excellent man management skills. Probably the best since SBR. It is not an easy job to bring colo and cabaye back to the team and perform as usual. It isn't. Throughout his time here he has protected the players extremely well, and the one he criticize most is ben arfa who is playing his best football. I honestly dont think there is lots of manager better than him in this area. So you put Ben Arfa's talent down to Pardew criticizing him? Cabaye has played two game since he almost left (well 110minutes or so) and hasn't exactly been great. Not denying he might be the best after SBR, but we've had a load of shit here since SBR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 In 2013 in the PL Pardew's record last season was: 6W 2D 9L 20p from a possible 54p. (1.11 PPG) Wouldn't necessarily call this an upward trajectory. We've also been shameful for two games this season while playing well two games. Like I said inconsistent results. Prior to that we had won 7 points from 39 (0.53 PPG) It's the very definition of an upward trajectory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 Pardew's made loads of mistakes. He's come out in post match interviews and held his hands up to say he can't blame the players because he got stuff wrong. I'm not defending those mistakes. I'm giving him credit when he gets it right. The very least he deserves. What? He interprets stuff differently from 99% of this forum as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 16, 2013 Share Posted September 16, 2013 From 20 points a season to 42. Superb stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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