RIP Joe Kinnear (1946–2024)

[Mick]

Do we need a debate about the motives behind the decision to bring Kinnear in? Kinnear is here and it looks like the club is once again going to shit and the person to blame for that is Ashley, he's a total prick, why he's doing things is irrelevant to me.

[Guest tollemache]

Ah yeah but... well you've got to pass the time haven't you

[Stuy_O]

Do we need a debate about the motives behind the decision to bring Kinnear in? Kinnear is here and it looks like the club is once again going to s*** and the person to blame for that is Ashley, he's a total prick, why he's doing things is irrelevant to me.

 

[Dr Venkman]

also backing up my conspiracy theory, when he said yohan kebab it was too straight...he didn't stutter or falter, then a sentence or two later he calls him cabaye

 

hoax man, telling you...probably realises how badly the insomnia thing went down and is playing up to it...no way ANYONE gets those three names wrong imo

 

It's definitely intentional.

[Deuce]

@Iwantcurlyhair2: Saddest news I have heard, Graham Carr to leave the club.

 

Sounds legit

 

[loki679]

Well yes, I don't think his tenure is a balls-up at all. If you step back and squint at it, as I've always said, it looks pretty decent and overall I've thought for a while we were on more or less a good trajectory. But this is just weird. Two of my favourite things about Newcastle in the last couple of years have been the cool-headed transfer policy and showing faith in the staff by giving them long contracts (albeit probably quite porous ones). So to bring about this wacky change and antagonise the people you showed so much faith in only a year ago and seemed so willing to back through thick and thin, including the guy who is the nucleus of that sensible, long-termist transfer policy, just doesn't square with anything. This is the first time I've thought, long or short term, this has to be a cock-up.

 

Unpopular decisions (stadium branding, sponsorship etc, not buckling and spending in the summer window last year) are one thing- some would argue they were destructive, some would argue they were simply necessary or justified by serving a greater purpose. But this seems destructive even in the context of his own plans. That's what bugs me about it

 

 

 

07/08 - Finished 12th, sacked Allardyce

08/09 - 4 managers, relegated

09/10 - In the 2nd division

10/11 - Sacks popular manager, stadium name etc etc

11/12 - Shit football but good results

12/13 -

 

He's had one season where things weren't a clusterfuck.  Fits 'balls up' to me.

[Guest tollemache]

Trimming the wage bill, coming straight back up, transforming the transfer policy, sorting out the club's finances, finishing 5th, signing a lot of bargains

 

Think you've been a little selective there haven't you. Come on

[loki679]

Finishing 5th was an achievement.  The rest you've mentioned all concern saving him money.

 

Guess we'll be playing that big bag of money up front again then?  The financial stuff is great, wonderful but it's not why I watch football and it's not why I support this club.

[Guest tollemache]

The club being frugal = the club saving money. Unless he's constantly embezzling from the club. And AFAIK we have a £9m striker up front.

 

Anyway. My point is, it hasn't all been 100% terrible and in some respects the club is in better nick than it was. Back on topic: what the fresh hell is going on with JFK. Big big big big big issue now for me is what does Carr do

[loki679]

You're a tugboat if you think his tenure has been anything other than shocking for us.  He's done some good things but they're massively outweighed by the non stop stream of shite he serves up.

 

Trimmed the wage bill vs hired JFK twice.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Does it matter how much money they save as long as they continually throw grenades at the good work?

[Guest tollemache]

I get corralled into sounding more pro-Ashley on here than I am because the general consensus is so unanimously and vociferously against him... I think the club's financial recovery is the number 1 important thing by a long way. I attach more weight to that than anything else because without that you're doomed (as we were, sooner or later, had Shepherd stuck around). So for me, financial recovery and stability vs lots and lots of other shitty things, makes things kind of even. That's probably the main reason I look at the overall picture and go 'meh, not doing too badly' and a lot of other people look at it and hate him. I think good transfer policy + getting richer = ending up doing pretty well, in the vast majority of cases, so I don't worry too much if we have a downturn or if Ashley does something weird that alienates the entire fanbase. That's also why I get exasperated when people get all carried away and revolt - because my reaction is always that if we just ignore his daftness, stay supportive and let him run the club like a profitable business for a bit, when he does eventually fuck off we'll probably be in a good position to move forward.

 

This time is different because it threatens one of those two tenets I think is all-important, the level-headed transfer policy. It's not just an unpopular decision or a tasteless one or a weird one, it looks like bad business too. So I AM getting a bit carried away with it, whereas slapping some paint on the stadium roof I don't give a flying f**k about, as long as we're not throwing money down the drain and heading for oblivion.

 

Does that not make some vague kind of sense to anyone?

[Vinny Green Balls]

Financial recovery doesn't do any good, however, if we lurch from self-imposed crisis to crisis. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

I get corralled into sounding more pro-Ashley on here than I am because the general consensus is so unanimously and vociferously against him... I think the club's financial recovery is the number 1 important thing by a long way. I attach more weight to that than anything else because without that you're doomed (as we were, sooner or later, had Shepherd stuck around). So for me, financial recovery and stability vs lots and lots of other shitty things, makes things kind of even. That's probably the main reason I look at the overall picture and go 'meh, not doing too badly' and a lot of other people look at it and hate him. I think good transfer policy + getting richer = ending up doing pretty well, in the vast majority of cases, so I don't worry too much if we have a downturn or if Ashley does something weird that alienates the entire fanbase. That's also why I get exasperated when people get all carried away and revolt - because my reaction is always that if we just ignore his daftness, stay supportive and let him run the club like a profitable business for a bit, when he does eventually fuck off we'll probably be in a good position to move forward.

 

This time is different because it threatens one of those two tenets I think is all-important, the level-headed transfer policy. So I AM getting a bit carried away with it, whereas slapping some paint on the stadium roof I don't give a flying f**k about, as long as we're not throwing money down the drain and heading for oblivion.

 

Does that not make some vague kind of sense to anyone?

 

It does.  But apart from one good season, there has been a barrage of horrible decisions.  They may not necessarily be aimed at riling us up, but at best, they show a great deal of contempt for the fanbase.  This man needs to fuck off, for this shit will continue.

[Incognito]

Trimming the wage bill, coming straight back up, transforming the transfer policy, sorting out the club's finances, finishing 5th, signing a lot of bargains

 

Think you've been a little selective there haven't you. Come on

 

One of the reasons  we came up is because we couldn't shift on the highest earners, ie Colo, Enrique , Barton, Nolan etc. Even Smith. And he was the bloke who gave all of those, save Barton I believe, the high wage contracts.

[loki679]

Trimming the wage bill, coming straight back up, transforming the transfer policy, sorting out the club's finances, finishing 5th, signing a lot of bargains

 

Think you've been a little selective there haven't you. Come on

 

One of the reasons  we came up is because we couldn't shift on the highest earners, ie Colo, Enrique , Barton, Nolan etc. Even Smith. And he was the bloke who gave all of those, save Barton I believe, the high wage contracts.

 

That's not true.  They stayed because Mike farted unicorns and rainbows at them.

 

Joe invented rainbows btw.

[Stuy_O]

He's an arsehole im sorry. He may have us on sound financial footing but it's hard to appreciate that when his ambition is none existent. Plus basically since he's took over, we have been a laughing stock in world football.

[Guest tollemache]

I get corralled into sounding more pro-Ashley on here than I am because the general consensus is so unanimously and vociferously against him... I think the club's financial recovery is the number 1 important thing by a long way. I attach more weight to that than anything else because without that you're doomed (as we were, sooner or later, had Shepherd stuck around). So for me, financial recovery and stability vs lots and lots of other shitty things, makes things kind of even. That's probably the main reason I look at the overall picture and go 'meh, not doing too badly' and a lot of other people look at it and hate him. I think good transfer policy + getting richer = ending up doing pretty well, in the vast majority of cases, so I don't worry too much if we have a downturn or if Ashley does something weird that alienates the entire fanbase. That's also why I get exasperated when people get all carried away and revolt - because my reaction is always that if we just ignore his daftness, stay supportive and let him run the club like a profitable business for a bit, when he does eventually fuck off we'll probably be in a good position to move forward.

 

This time is different because it threatens one of those two tenets I think is all-important, the level-headed transfer policy. So I AM getting a bit carried away with it, whereas slapping some paint on the stadium roof I don't give a flying f**k about, as long as we're not throwing money down the drain and heading for oblivion.

 

Does that not make some vague kind of sense to anyone?

 

It does.  But apart from one good season, there has been a barrage of horrible decisions.  They may not necessarily be aimed at riling us up, but at best, they show a great deal of contempt for the fanbase.  This man needs to fuck off, for this shit will continue.

 

Fully agree, he's been utterly terrible with the fans and seems to go out of his way to alienate everyone at times. I just don't care that much, as I say, as long as we're financially upwardly mobile and make sensible transfers for the next few years. On one level (and in a very small way) I kind of enjoy the fact that he clearly doesn't give a fuck as long as he thinks he's running the club right, because the last thing we'd want is a marquee-signing politician like Shepherd in charge. But yeah, Ashley should give more attention to cherishing his supporters and I'm always shocked at the extent to which he doesn't. It's not on.

 

But if you say that the quality of the next owner we get is basically random (i.e; could be a terrible asset-stripping bastard, or could be an absolute legend who propels us to greatness) and then you offer me a chance between Ashley leaving now, and leaving in 5 years, I'd say yes please to the 5 years. Or I would definitely have said that prior to JFK coming back. Because 5 years of Carr transfers and frugal business will serve us very well.

[Incognito]

I get corralled into sounding more pro-Ashley on here than I am because the general consensus is so unanimously and vociferously against him... I think the club's financial recovery is the number 1 important thing by a long way. I attach more weight to that than anything else because without that you're doomed (as we were, sooner or later, had Shepherd stuck around). So for me, financial recovery and stability vs lots and lots of other shitty things, makes things kind of even. That's probably the main reason I look at the overall picture and go 'meh, not doing too badly' and a lot of other people look at it and hate him. I think good transfer policy + getting richer = ending up doing pretty well, in the vast majority of cases, so I don't worry too much if we have a downturn or if Ashley does something weird that alienates the entire fanbase. That's also why I get exasperated when people get all carried away and revolt - because my reaction is always that if we just ignore his daftness, stay supportive and let him run the club like a profitable business for a bit, when he does eventually fuck off we'll probably be in a good position to move forward.

 

This time is different because it threatens one of those two tenets I think is all-important, the level-headed transfer policy. So I AM getting a bit carried away with it, whereas slapping some paint on the stadium roof I don't give a flying f**k about, as long as we're not throwing money down the drain and heading for oblivion.

 

Does that not make some vague kind of sense to anyone?

 

It does.  But apart from one good season, there has been a barrage of horrible decisions.  They may not necessarily be aimed at riling us up, but at best, they show a great deal of contempt for the fanbase.  This man needs to fuck off, for this shit will continue.

 

Fully agree, he's been utterly terrible with the fans and seems to go out of his way to alienate everyone at times. I just don't care that much, as I say, as long as we're financially upwardly mobile and make sensible transfers for the next few years. On one level (and in a very small way) I kind of enjoy the fact that he clearly doesn't give a fuck as long as he thinks he's running the club right, because the last thing we'd want is a marquee-signing politician like Shepherd in charge. But yeah, Ashley should give more attention to cherishing his supporters and I'm always shocked at the extent to which he doesn't. It's not on.

 

But if you say that the quality of the next owner we get is basically random (i.e; could be a terrible asset-stripping bastard, or could be an absolute legend who propels us to greatness) and then you offer me a chance between Ashley leaving now, and leaving in 5 years, I'd say yes please to the 5 years. Or I would definitely have said that prior to JFK coming back. Because 5 years of Carr transfers and frugal business will serve us very well.

 

In what way , may I ask?

[colinmk]

I don't understand how getting us relegated entirely through shambolic decisions of his own has made us 'financially upwardly mobile'.

[Guest tollemache]

You're getting at a lack of ambition right? I understand that and again, we have a difference in opinion here perhaps because I'd be quite happy with a slow, Everton-like ascent overall, building towards being in contention for CL spots on a regular basis. I think that's just the way football is now, and if you demand an all-out effort to win trophies you might as well be demanding that the owner flip a coin for the future of the club. For our average league position to improve by a few in the next few years would be a decent achievement. Sad but true.

 

Why would I take the 5 years? Because I think we'd be likely to be in a better position financially after 5 years of Ashley, and that, in the end, translates directly to success on the pitch. It's not ideal to have an owner who alienates fans, does daft things and hires his mates but I get the impression he will stop at nothing to make the club a commercially successful organisation and right now, after the last 10 - 15 years, that is the best thing that could possibly happen. Let him keep being a twat, just make sure that over the next few years our bank balance improves, our squad gets deeper, we deal well in the market and so on and so on, and then he can go to hell if he wants. And for fuck's sake keep hold of Graham Carr.

[Guest tollemache]

I don't understand how getting us relegated entirely through shambolic decisions of his own has made us 'financially upwardly mobile'.

 

I don't think it was as you say. We had been in awful nick for years and it was going to come home to roost in the end. But clearly we're in better financial condition now than we were before we were relegated, and very much better than pre-Ashley when we were mortgaged to the jacksie. Look at the wage bill and the value of our squad for one.

[Guest tollemache]

not that I'm absolving Ashley of blame of course

[David28]

Great words by Shearer on bbc. Think he got it spot on there.

[Incognito]

You're getting at a lack of ambition right? I understand that and again, we have a difference in opinion here perhaps because I'd be quite happy with a slow, Everton-like ascent overall, building towards being in contention for CL spots on a regular basis. I think that's just the way football is now, and if you demand an all-out effort to win trophies you might as well be demanding that the owner flip a coin for the future of the club. For our average league position to improve by a few in the next few years would be a decent achievement. Sad but true.

 

Why would I take the 5 years? Because I think we'd be likely to be in a better position financially after 5 years of Ashley, and that, in the end, translates directly to success on the pitch. It's not ideal to have an owner who alienates fans, does daft things and hires his mates but I get the impression he will stop at nothing to make the club a commercially successful organisation and right now, after the last 10 - 15 years, that is the best thing that could possibly happen. Let him keep being a twat, just make sure that over the next few years our bank balance improves, our squad gets deeper, we deal well in the market and so on and so on, and then he can go to hell if he wants. And for fuck's sake keep hold of Graham Carr.

 

Thanks for the answer, so eloquently put.

 

But with all due respect I can't see the path you map out taking shape with Pardew and Kinnear in senior managerial positions at the club. Not just that, if you get a successful brand on the pitch, then the commercial aspect will always follow, but not so the case the other way round. I think we've got a fair squad and with a bit of depth added and a managerial upgrade, then there wouldn't be any reason why we couldn't be successful.