The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

[mrmojorisin75]

6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Merely pointing out that our issues have been the same as everyone else's. The league table reflects your season. We deserved to be second.

We need a CB, CM, RW and CF. The latter two aren't as important in the summer but we will definitely need a CF soon once Cavani goes. I don't what the fuck happened with Van de Beek but only clearly never wanted him.

Never said otherwise.

VdB always seemed a strange choice to me when you had Fernandes as when he was at his Ajax best he was playing in the same sort of areas that Fernandes occupies and getting on the end of stuff to score goals.   Makes it a bit more odd he didn't try to rotate him in for Fernandes a little bit more against weaker sides.

I think you're right, go bif this summer for a CB & CM making sure you get quality, then a CF next summer and I think you should be challenging at that point tbh.

[Guest HTT II]

49 minutes ago, Froggy said:

What were Chelsea's distractions?  Lampard? Liverpool's distractions were losing defenders to injury? Liverpool had more CB's at their disposal than we did. Not like Klopp's teams to start dying off with injury either...

People seem to forget we had no real pre-season this year and played 61 games. Rashford and Bruno were absolutely shagged by March/April. 

Greenwood and Martial were two of our best players last season and scored 40 goals between them. Yet this year Martial has had his issues with form and injury and Greenwood was non-existent for months due to being depressed at his close friend committing suicide.

Our captain who played essentially every single game for us since joining was missing for the final in which we dominated but conceded from a set piece.

As always on here it's all about how Ole is certain to fail and the only reason we finished ahead of Chelsea and Liverpool is because of their issues, as if we had none of our own.  A very poor lack of insight, blinded by hatred of the club. Everyone on here gave Ole less than a year. You have all been wrong. None of you understand the impact he has made around the club either. Clearing out the leeches and the team finally becoming a team. Everyone is happy, and that hasn't been the case for years.

Ole has brought us from 6th to 3rd to 2nd. He deserves a new contract. You can evaluate him again at the end of next season, when the expectation will have increased. He has 1-2 years now to win trophies, simple as that.

Ole for me has done a decent job at Man Utd given how far yous have fallen behind since Fergie left, but he’s also failed in the sense of what Man Utd should be doing every season regardless of post Fergie, which is compete for titles and win trophies which despite finishing second, yous haven’t, and getting to a final and losing, isn’t silverware.

This is a big season for him and yous coming up, but he needs the right players more than ever now, I don’t think that’s happened much for him since he took over. It’s interesting to see Fergie in and around the team and manager these days, maybe a signal that Ole is now protected by him and his visual appearance in and among the group is a sign that the club are now being kind of told from within, now is the time to bring in the right kind of players? Or maybe the club have brought him in so to speak to soften the anger directed at the owners and the whole ESL thing?

Either way, for me Ole deserves another season and full backing, again he’s done a decent job and as you’ve illustrated with your post, he’s not some boring leave it to the purples type manager to try and get a win. Injuries and loss of form are crucial to any side, look at City, some of their key players started hitting top form to the point they could play without a CF and go from being 8th at one point to champions.

Rashford, Greenwood and Martial have all had poor seasons, and even Fernandez has tailed off in form despite impressive scoring/assisting stats. That’s 4 of your attackers and key players. Finishing 2nd and a runners up in a European final, isn’t too bad all things considered, it’s progress.

Like Liverpool progressed without winning anything first under Rodgers and then Klopp, but they then went on to win the CL and title. That’s what Ole has to do, one or the other, in one season, and I don’t think he will. Even if backed fully in the transfer market as I don’t think he’s good enough. Me I’d cut my loses and go all out for a Zidane, a Conte and above those two, Simeone! 

[Froggy]

12 minutes ago, mrmojorisin75 said:

Never said otherwise.

VdB always seemed a strange choice to me when you had Fernandes as when he was at his Ajax best he was playing in the same sort of areas that Fernandes occupies and getting on the end of stuff to score goals.   Makes it a bit more odd he didn't try to rotate him in for Fernandes a little bit more against weaker sides.

I think you're right, go bif this summer for a CB & CM making sure you get quality, then a CF next summer and I think you should be challenging at that point tbh.

It's clear what we need. If we sign those players, there won't be any hiding. I can assure you Ole wouldn't get a free ride if we believe he has the team to do better.

[Froggy]

11 minutes ago, HTT II said:

Ole for me has done a decent job at Man Utd given how far yous have fallen behind since Fergie left, but he’s also failed in the sense of what Man Utd should be doing every season regardless of post Fergie, which is compete for titles and win trophies which despite finishing second, yous haven’t, and getting to a final and losing, isn’t silverware.

This is a big season for him and yous coming up, but he needs the right players more than ever now, I don’t think that’s happened much for him since he took over. It’s interesting to see Fergie in and around the team and manager these days, maybe a signal that Ole is now protected by him and his visual appearance in and among the group is a sign that the club are now being kind of told from within, now is the time to bring in the right kind of players? Or maybe the club have brought him in so to speak to soften the anger directed at the owners and the whole ESL thing?

Either way, for me Ole deserves another season and full backing, again he’s done a decent job and as you’ve illustrated with your post, he’s not some boring leave it to the purples type manager to try and get a win. Injuries and loss of form are crucial to any side, look at City, some of their key players started hitting top form to the point they could play without a CF and go from being 8th at one point to champions.

Rashford, Greenwood and Martial have all had poor seasons, and even Fernandez has tailed off in form despite impressive scoring/assisting stats. That’s 4 of your attackers and key players. Finishing 2nd and a runners up in a European final, isn’t too bad all things considered, it’s progress.

Like Liverpool progressed without winning anything first under Rodgers and then Klopp, but they then went on to win the CL and title. That’s what Ole has to do, one or the other, in one season, and I don’t think he will. Even if backed fully in the transfer market as I don’t think he’s good enough. Me I’d cut my loses and go all out for a Zidane, a Conte and above those two, Simeone! 

Agree with most except Rashford.  He's probably the most prolific winger in Europe. Tailed off towards the end as did a few of the players due to a ridiculously long season, no pre-season and no depth. All of these points won't be in play next season. 

[mrmojorisin75]

Don't forget his disgusting political activism distracting him from his real job Froggy

 

[Fantail Breeze]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

I genuinely appreciate you having an opinion, but it's wrong. 

1. Biggest home win since Sir Alex retired.
2. First time we've scored 5 goals at Old Trafford since 2011.
3. First time two players have scored 10+ goals at Old Trafford since 2008.
4. First team in PL history to win four consecutive games by 3+ goals.
5. Won 10 consecutive away games for the first time in our history. 8 in the league, also a record.
6. Biggest win in the CL since 2013.
7. Rashford and Martial first hat-tricks for the club under Ole.
8. First side in PL history to score 2+ goals in 10 consecutive away games
9. 9-0 vs. Southampton? 6-2 vs. Roma? 6-2 vs. Leeds? 5-0 vs. Leipzig? 4-0 vs. Chelsea?
10. Under LVG, Moyes and Jose we scored 5+ twice in 302 matches. We've done in 9 times with Ole in 140 games.
11. First team to score 6 in a European semi since 1964

There's more, but there's no need. Boring? He's smashing attacking records all over the place. It is a really strange narrative people seem to have that is based on nothing.

There are also many, many dogshit records he’s broken too.

The fact is, Man Utd not winning a trophy for four years is terrible. But if you’re happy with finishing in the top four year on year, never getting anywhere close to the title and never winning a trophy - OGS is a great manager for you.

Trying to justify keeping him is hilarious. ‘I know we’ve never looked further away from the title and we can’t win a trophy, but it’s okay because we scored 2 goals in 10 away games once”  Almost as bad as the journalists scrambling around for stats to justify Bruce’s existence.

[buzza]

OGS is a decent manager going on results since he has been in that position. The one thing that would be worrying for me if I were a Man U fan is that he does not seem to have his own footballing "template/philosophie", I really don´t know what "type" of football he wants his teams to play...

With Manu he seems to like to counter-attack more than anything, but when they play lesser teams they are not so good at breaking them down and their possession and first press is nothing like the "elite" managers of the moment are employing.

Not decided on him, if he is given cash in the summer he will have to deliver silverware next year.

[Froggy]

19 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

There are also many, many dogshit records he’s broken too.

The fact is, Man Utd not winning a trophy for four years is terrible. But if you’re happy with finishing in the top four year on year, never getting anywhere close to the title and never winning a trophy - OGS is a great manager for you.

Trying to justify keeping him is hilarious. ‘I know we’ve never looked further away from the title and we can’t win a trophy, but it’s okay because we scored 2 goals in 10 away games once”  Almost as bad as the journalists scrambling around for stats to justify Bruce’s existence.

It's very basic to understand. We were happy with Ole finishing third and qualifying for the CL, because we had been as low as 6th and 7th in previous seasons. We are happy going from 3rd to 2nd, and going from getting to semi finals to a final. Next season we will want finals turned into silverware, and 2nd to turn into a title challenge. Nothing happens overnight, and all you can ask for is progression. If you can't see the progression you are blind.

"We've never looked further away from the title." - Eh? We finished 12 points behind. We were 33 points behind last year.

Also, my stats about goals up above were in direct response to being called a boring team.

Every time you post it confirms my thoughts that you are the worst poster on the football forum.

[Froggy]

15 minutes ago, buzza said:

Not decided on him, if he is given cash in the summer he will have to deliver silverware next year.

In a nutshell.

[Ben]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

I genuinely appreciate you having an opinion, but it's wrong. 

1. Biggest home win since Sir Alex retired.
2. First time we've scored 5 goals at Old Trafford since 2011.
3. First time two players have scored 10+ goals at Old Trafford since 2008.
4. First team in PL history to win four consecutive games by 3+ goals.
5. Won 10 consecutive away games for the first time in our history. 8 in the league, also a record.
6. Biggest win in the CL since 2013.
7. Rashford and Martial first hat-tricks for the club under Ole.
8. First side in PL history to score 2+ goals in 10 consecutive away games
9. 9-0 vs. Southampton? 6-2 vs. Roma? 6-2 vs. Leeds? 5-0 vs. Leipzig? 4-0 vs. Chelsea?
10. Under LVG, Moyes and Jose we scored 5+ twice in 302 matches. We've done in 9 times with Ole in 140 games.
11. First team to score 6 in a European semi since 1964

There's more, but there's no need. Boring? He's smashing attacking records all over the place. It is a really strange narrative people seem to have that is based on nothing.

All good points well made and you will know a lot more than me about how they play, but when I watch them I find them run of the mill and predictable.

I wish I had as much faith in Bruce as you do in Ole but at the end of the day when either of them leave their current jobs they will not be in the frame for better roles 

[Yorkie]

Apols if covered but why is Woodward calling a huge shot like this? Thought he was on his bike?

[Froggy]

3 minutes ago, Ben said:

All good points well made and you will know a lot more than me about how they play, but when I watch them I find them run of the mill and predictable.

I wish I had as much faith in Bruce as you do in Ole but at the end of the day when either of them leave their current jobs they will not be in the frame for better roles 

I do think Bruce has done alright this year, but Newcastle should be competing for the top 6. All comes from the top though.

[Froggy]

Just now, Yorkie said:

Apols if covered but why is Woodward calling a huge shot like this? Thought he was on his bike?

At the end of 2021. He's still calling the shots at the minute, unfortunately. Worries me for the summer.

[Fantail Breeze]

31 minutes ago, Froggy said:

It's very basic to understand. We were happy with Ole finishing third and qualifying for the CL, because we had been as low as 6th and 7th in previous seasons. We are happy going from 3rd to 2nd, and going from getting to semi finals to a final. Next season we will want finals turned into silverware, and 2nd to turn into a title challenge. Nothing happens overnight, and all you can ask for is progression. If you can't see the progression you are blind.

"We've never looked further away from the title." - Eh? We finished 12 points behind. We were 33 points behind last year.

Also, my stats about goals up above were in direct response to being called a boring team.

Every time you post it confirms my thoughts that you are the worst poster on the football forum.

 Is this forum full of children? You try and have a conversation and they get so upset.

You haven’t finished as low as 7th since 2013/14. A weird metric to measure OGS’s success on. It’s a bit like us justifying Bruce because we were relegated five years ago.

Since then two managers have delivered an FA Cup, a League Cup and a Europa League. One even got a 2nd place finish too (with arguably worse squads).

Every year you say “judge OGS next season”. You’ve said it again now. At what point will that judgement come? 

 

[TRon]

14 hours ago, George Bailey said:

Really wanted Ossie to succeed...

Was unlucky in many respects (Or am I just being too kind).

Unlucky in that he was basically expected to succeed with a bunch of kids. The football was really easy on the eye, but to play that expansively, you really need some proven quality.

[astraguy]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

I do think Jones has done alright this year, but Newcastle should be competing for the top 6. All comes from the top though.

[Froggy]

1 hour ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 Is this forum full of children? You try and have a conversation and they get so upset.

You haven’t finished as low as 7th since 2013/14. A weird metric to measure OGS’s success on. It’s a bit like us justifying Bruce because we were relegated five years ago.

Since then two managers have delivered an FA Cup, a League Cup and a Europa League. One even got a 2nd place finish too (with arguably worse squads).

Every year you say “judge OGS next season”. You’ve said it again now. At what point will that judgement come? 

 

How does saying you are a terrible poster make me upset? 

The forum must be full of children, or at least one, as I'm trying to make this as basic as I can and it is still not being understood. I don't know why you think there's no judgement on him. If he finished 5th he would have been sacked. If we went out of all the cups early, he would have been sacked. The expectation has increased each season. 

You are also being hypocritical in your argument. You are saying I can't use 6/7 years ago to justify Ole's position now. Yet you are using our success from years gone by as a reason why he's not good enough, as Man United should be winning trophies.

While this is a results based business, there is also much more to a manager. Why do you love Benitez? You were relegated under him? Steve Bruce just matched Benitez's highest ever points tally in the PL as well. So tell me, why Benitez over Bruce?

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Froggy

[astraguy]

Oh Christ ?? saying that why wouldn't u take Bruce if ole got the sack? More experience in the pl and a man u legend like ole

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by astraguy
.

[Ben]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

How does saying you are a terrible poster make me upset? 

The forum must be full of children, or at least one, as I'm trying to make this as basic as I can and it is still not being understood. I don't know why you think there's no judgement on him. If he finished 5th he would have been sacked. If we went out of all the cups early, he would have been sacked. The expectation has increased each season. 

You are also being hypocritical in your argument. You are saying I can't use 6/7 years ago to justify Ole's position now. Yet you are using our success from years gone by as a reason why he's not good enough, as Man United should be winning trophies.

While this is a results based business, there is also much more to a manager. Why do you love Benitez? You were relegated under him? Steve Bruce just matched Benitez's highest ever points tally in the PL as well. So tell me, why Benitez over Bruce?

You make a fair point over reasons to keep Ole, but you can't seriously ask why Rafa over Bruce.

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, astraguy said:

Oh Christ ??

[Froggy]

1 minute ago, Ben said:

You make a fair point over reasons to keep Ole, but you can't seriously ask why Rafa over Bruce.

Oh no I'm absolutely not of the mindset that they are in any way comparable. I'm just saying there's so much more to a manager than pure results. It was a response to the implication that since Mourinho finished second and LVG won the FA Cup they must be better than Solskjaer and he's wrong for the club because he hasn't delivered a trophy after two seasons.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Froggy

[Fantail Breeze]

Just now, Froggy said:

How does saying you are a terrible poster make me upset? 

The forum must be full of children, or at least one, as I'm trying to make this as basic as I can and it is still not being understood. I don't know why you think there's no judgement on him. If he finished 5th he would have been sacked. If we went out of all the cups early, he would have been sacked. 

You are also being hypocritical in your argument. You are saying I can't use 6/7 years ago to justify Ole's position now. Yet you are using our success from years gone by as a reason why he's not good enough, as Man United should be winning trophies.

While this is a results based business, there is also much more to a manager. Why do you love Benitez? You were relegated under him? Steve Bruce just matched Benitez's highest ever points tally in the PL as well. So tell me, why Benitez over Bruce?

“We were relegated under Benitez”  You’ve just shown yourself up to being a bit of a tit.

I’m not judging OGS on his performance in 10 games after taking over. I’m judging him on the full seasons he’s had where he’s achieved nothing, other than top four qualification. Wenger was ridiculed for that, despite having a CV extensively stronger than OGS’s.

Man Utd should be winning trophies because of their incredible resources. Spending £200m in 2019/20 and ending up with nothing but the top four. Mental.  Poor OGS, how can we ever judge him? He’s only had an open chequebook and can’t even beat the 7th best team in Spain in a European cup final.

[Fantail Breeze]

6 minutes ago, Froggy said:

Oh no I'm absolutely not of the mindset that they are in any way comparable. I'm just saying there's so much more to a manager than pure results. It was a response to the implication that since Mourinho finished second and LVG won the FA Cup they must be better than Solskjaer and he's wrong for the club because he hasn't delivered a trophy after two seasons.

No. Mourinho and LVG are far better than OGS based on their fantastic careers of winning things - which they also both managed at Man Utd.

Don’t make things up to keep trying to justify your own poor ambitions.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Fantail Breeze

[astraguy]

If ole got sacked now,name me a top side that would go for him ? I 

[TRon]

2 hours ago, Froggy said:

It's very basic to understand. We were happy with Ole finishing third and qualifying for the CL, because we had been as low as 6th and 7th in previous seasons. We are happy going from 3rd to 2nd, and going from getting to semi finals to a final. Next season we will want finals turned into silverware, and 2nd to turn into a title challenge. Nothing happens overnight, and all you can ask for is progression. If you can't see the progression you are blind.

"We've never looked further away from the title." - Eh? We finished 12 points behind. We were 33 points behind last year.

Also, my stats about goals up above were in direct response to being called a boring team.

 

I appreciate you are closer to the action than we are, but while the football has been much better than under Mourinho, it does seem like the main difference has been the impact of players like Fernandes and Cavani. Without them, not sure the results would look quite so good.

I just get the feeling that while Ole will earn goodwill in allowing Man U to express themselves and let players do their thing, ultimately he's not going to win significant silverware. Not sure he'll have the sort of personality to instill the discipline required to forge champions.