Squad & tactics (2024/25)

[Unbelievable]

Seeing as this transfer window is drawing to a close, and trying to make sense of our (lack of) transfer dealings, I decided to have a look at what our squad will look like next season based on current contract length. Per position I have marked what I think of players that are good enough for a team aiming for CL in bold, marked the ones with expiring contracts strike-through and the ones with running contracts who I consider solid squad players as normal text.

 

GK:

Pope (2026)

Vlachodimos (?)

Dubravka (2025)

Ruddy (2025)

Gillespie (2025)

 

DR:

Livramento (2028)

Trippier (2026)

Krafth (2025) possibly extended

 

 

DC:

Botman (2027)

Kelly (2029)

Schar (2025) possibly extended

Burn (2025) possibly extended

Lascelles (2025) probably not extended due to being injury prone

 

DL:

Hall (?)

Targett (2026)

Lewis (2025)

 

MC:

Joelinton (?)

Tonali (2028)

Bruno (2028)

Willock (2027)

Longstaff (2026)

Lewis Miley (?)

 

AMR:

Murphy (2027)

Almiron (2026)

 

AML:

Gordon (?)

Barnes (2028)

 

ST:

Isak (2028)

Wilson (2025) probably not extended due to being injury prone

Osula (?)

 

The likes of Kuol, Ashby, etc. I've left out as it doesn't look like they will be good enough to be members of the first team. The likes of Alex Murphy, Jamie Miley, Shahar, Sanusi, etc. I've not included as it is unclear whether they will develop into useful squad players or not.

 

I think this puts into perspective the magnitude of the overhaul we face between now and this time next year. We'll need:

 

• a solid squad/development GK
• depending on short extensions of Schar and Burn between 1 and 3 CD, probably at least one starter
• potentially a left back (depending on how we view Kelly)
• potentially a solid squad/development CM
• a first team right winger
• a solid squad/development striker

In terms of PSR we're likely to have reasonable breathing room, but in today's market you'd easily be looking at >250m in transfer fees I'd imagine. Next summer is going to be extremely busy, especially if we fail to fill any of these positions this window.

 

 

Edited August 29 by Unbelievable

[Lotus]

One thing that has bothered me a bit is the idea that, now we have no Yoorup, we’ll be the same team as 22/23. That was 2 seasons  ago….the players aren’t the same. Wilson, Trips, Schar, Miggy, Burn. They’re not a year closer to their prime, they’re a year further away from it. Willock was crucial that year, last year a right off and this year he already has (I hope) a minor injury. I’d also be astonished if Miggy went on the same kind of scoring run, I’m sure we all would.

Add to that, we don’t surprise teams with the high press. They’ve all seen it now and largely adapted. I’m not sure we’re even the best in the league at it tbh. Other clubs have realised you can be very disruptive by just ‘running a bit faster and jumping a bit higher’ (to quote Pardew). 
We haven’t made the best use of our footballing talent so far. Last year was difficult, that’s completely understandable. But the players have that season more in the minds and patterns of play than the season before.

So far this season, we’ve played Southampton, Bournemouth and Forest and looked the less fluent and cohesive team by and large. We’ve had spells but have not dominated the ball, possession and attacked the way you’d expect us to with the ballers available. Even with 10 men I thought we’d keep hold of the ball a little better. I’m certain Chelsea, Spurs, Villa, Brighton, Manu would have had more of it.

As (i think Madras said) we look rusty and a bit ‘off’. I’m not particularly worried because I think we could be easing into it slowly. Whatever our pattern is going to be, it’s not yet evident, very early days though. But just expecting it to be the same as 2 years ago with the same results is blind faith imo.

[Peder75]

On the other hand we have Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Gordon, Barnes, Livramento and Hall as either new or improved (closer to prime) than two years ago. Yes, I included Bruno there because I think he is one level above so far this season than he was two seasons ago, due to him being captain and taking larger responsibility on the pitch. In my eyes, the team we have today is stronger than two seasons ago, even if a few players are worse.

Agree that we have not looked good so far, but if we reach what I believe is our standard, it will be a good season.

[Yorkie]

3 minutes ago, Peder75 said:

On the other hand we have Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Gordon, Barnes, Livramento and Hall as either new or improved (closer to prime) than two years ago. Yes, I included Bruno there because I think he is one level above so far this season than he was two seasons ago, due to him being captain and taking larger responsibility on the pitch. In my eyes, the team we have today is stronger than two seasons ago, even if a few players are worse.

Agree that we have not looked good so far, but if we reach what I believe is our standard, it will be a good season.

 

Meanwhile the rest of the squad have been shown absolute faith by their manager and, you'd hope, are as keen as ever to repay it. There's competition for places in every position too (except probably goalkeeper).

 

Signings are usually a good thing but the squad is in pretty good shape. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

I still feel excited about what we've got available when the majority are fit & firing. We have some fantastic footballers and, imo, genuine versatility in a number of positions that means we have some actual tactical flexibility, providing we stay largely fit. We could quite easily roll from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 to 3-5-2 in a game without making many subs. We've already seen Howe messing about with the shape a bit with 4-4-2 this campaign, and we ended the Forest game playing 4-2-3-1 with Bruno playing ahead of Joelinton & Longstaff etc.

 

Our best side until the next window is genuinely tricky to pick in a few positions imo. The biggest thing for me is we find ways to consistently get B.I.G together in the attacking spots.

[Lotus]

2 hours ago, Peder75 said:

On the other hand we have Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Gordon, Barnes, Livramento and Hall as either new or improved (closer to prime) than two years ago. Yes, I included Bruno there because I think he is one level above so far this season than he was two seasons ago, due to him being captain and taking larger responsibility on the pitch. In my eyes, the team we have today is stronger than two seasons ago, even if a few players are worse.

Agree that we have not looked good so far, but if we reach what I believe is our standard, it will be a good season.

You can imagine the team is stronger but until they get the same result, they aren’t.

My point was though, I think we’ll have to play differently than our old ‘run all over them’ approach because the league has wised up.

I did see some evolution at the beginning of last season before it went a bit pear shaped.

Looking forward to seeing what our overall approach and philosophy will be. 

[The Prophet]

At least now this nonsense is over I csn enjoy the season again.

[Gallowgate Toon]

6 minutes ago, Lotus said:

You can imagine the team is stronger but until they get the same result, they aren’t.

My point was though, I think we’ll have to play differently than our old ‘run all over them’ approach because the league has wised up.

I did see some evolution at the beginning of last season before it went a bit pear shaped.

Looking forward to seeing what our overall approach and philosophy will be. 

Pressing and intensity will still be a big part of what we do when at our best - I personally don't care for possession control as the main thing but it of course has a place in the toolkit.

 

Howe said in today's presser a few are still working towards fitness - you can't do the pressing approach fully if you're carrying players not fit enough to execute it. Might explain our drop-offs after 20 mins in the last couple of matches.

[Gallowgate Toon]

8 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

At least now this nonsense is over I csn enjoy the season again.

A proper Howe streak with some batterings will get everyone back in good spirits.

[kingxlnc]

Anyone thing Tonali could be the right winger? Is fast and got good delivery from the right

 

wouldnt mind midfield of Bruno Big and Little Joe

 

Tonali Isak Gordon 

[Unlucky Luque]

[Guest]

We've got 4-5 players who wouldn't look out of place in a title winning team. A group of 4-5 in the level a bit underneath that who are top 6 level. 

 

I think it's that first little group that puts us ahead of the likes of Villa and Spurs still. I don't think they've got a group of 5 first-teamers as strong as Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Gordon and Trippier when they're all in the team. If we can keep at least 4 of them in the team at all times, added with the likes of Pope, Schar, Joelinton, Tino, Barnes who are in the next group down but easily on par with the likes of Spurs and Villa overall, plus Botman second half of the season hopefully, and we're still more good enough for a top 5 season. 

[buzza]

5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

We've got 4-5 players who wouldn't look out of place in a title winning team. A group of 4-5 in the level a bit underneath that who are top 6 level. 

 

I think it's that first little group that puts us ahead of the likes of Villa and Spurs still. I don't think they've got a group of 5 first-teamers as strong as Isak, Bruno, Tonali, Gordon and Trippier when they're all in the team. If we can keep at least 4 of them in the team at all times, added with the likes of Pope, Schar, Joelinton, Tino, Barnes who are in the next group down but easily on par with the likes of Spurs and Villa overall, plus Botman second half of the season hopefully, and we're still more good enough for a top 5 season. 

That was the whole point of this window; to bring in those two other top players so that without injuries we would have a top four team.

At the moment we are those 2/3/4 players short (CB, LB, RW)

 

 

Edited August 30 by buzza

[Myleftboot]

                      Isak

 

barnes.         Willock.      Gordon

 

             Bruno.        Tonali

 

hall.         Botman.       Shar.       Tino

 

                          Pope

 

when everyone’s fit.

 

 

[The Prophet]

Aside from the obvious changes, would like to see Kelly in for Burn. 

[janpawel]

In light of the lengthy run of poor performances and the fact we have Mitchell now who'll be thinking of a sustainable style of play going forward, could anyone see him wanting us to play with a more athletic / defensive minded midfielder and a shift in midfield tactics? 

 

Was thinking all of the top sides have someone like so - City - Rodri, Arsenal - Rice, Chelsea - Lavia, Villa Onana, Madrid - Tchouenemi, Liverpool were on the market for one, Tottenham fans want one etc etc 

 

The top teams also have someone who is able to support the DM and progress the ball (we have Bruno) , or they invert a full back (I think Hall would be good at this) 

 

Just wondering if it's something that could happen with the changes, I think it's something that would improve us imo. Though not sure what established players are on the market, I know Liverpool couldn't get Zubimendi so I doubt we could either 😂

[TRon]

6 minutes ago, janpawel said:

In light of the lengthy run of poor performances and the fact we have Mitchell now who'll be thinking of a sustainable style of play going forward, could anyone see him wanting us to play with a more athletic / defensive minded midfielder and a shift in midfield tactics? 

 

Was thinking all of the top sides have someone like so - City - Rodri, Arsenal - Rice, Chelsea - Lavia, Villa Onana, Madrid - Tchouenemi, Liverpool were on the market for one, Tottenham fans want one etc etc 

 

The top teams also have someone who is able to support the DM and progress the ball (we have Bruno) , or they invert a full back (I think Hall would be good at this) 

 

Just wondering if it's something that could happen with the changes, I think it's something that would improve us imo. Though not sure what established players are on the market, I know Liverpool couldn't get Zubimendi so I doubt we could either 😂

 

 

I don't think that is part of his remit. His job should be to discuss with Howe the players Howe wants for his system. Then source and precure players who fit that criteria.

[janpawel]

10 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

I don't think that is part of his remit. His job should be to discuss with Howe the players Howe wants for his system. Then source and precure players who fit that criteria.

What about if he thinks the style of play isn't effective in the long term, particularly if Howe was to ever leave, and they were very much suited to his system, and not a system more widely used by top / successful teams? 

 

I'm purely talking on a hypothetical here, just think it's interesting to consider. For instance, I can't imagine Liverpool ever touching Conte or Mourinho, because the players they have wouldn't suit their defensive style (never mind their recent issues) , and they wouldn't want to chop and change the squad to suit it

[TRon]

8 minutes ago, janpawel said:

What about if he thinks the style of play isn't effective in the long term, particularly if Howe was to ever leave, and they were very much suited to his system, and not a system more widely used by top / successful teams? 

 

I'm purely talking on a hypothetical here, just think it's interesting to consider. For instance, I can't imagine Liverpool ever touching Conte or Mourinho, because the players they have wouldn't suit their defensive style (never mind their recent issues) , and they wouldn't want to chop and change the squad to suit it

 

I get the point about not wanting to have to throw everything out whenever you change a manager, but I still don't think he would be telling Howe what tactics to deploy on a week to week basis. Otherwise there would be big problems.

[janpawel]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I get the point about not wanting to have to throw everything out whenever you change a manager, but I still don't think he would be telling Howe what tactics to deploy on a week to week basis. Otherwise there would be big problems.

I was thinking more bigger picture / long term direction of the club and not week in week out, but I get your point. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

Thought this a was a pretty interesting (but long) thread, until you hear the lad talk on video. Dan Burn takes a fairly big battering 

 

 

 

[Mikky]

6 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

Thought this a was a pretty interesting (but long) thread, until you hear the lad talk on video. Dan Burn takes a fairly big battering 

 

 

 

I don’t think it tells us anything that we as fans haven’t noticed either - a good thread though.

[timeEd32]

I've been wondering if we might see Kelly at CB at some point, and maybe even Burn at LB. That'll be a fun day. 

[TRon]

On 24/09/2024 at 16:37, timeEd32 said:

I've been wondering if we might see Kelly at CB at some point, and maybe even Burn at LB. That'll be a fun day. 

 

When we bought him I assumed we were buying Kelly as a CB and was quite excited at the time, but he's only played LB so far. Which is about as exciting as Burn playing LB.

[Paulus]

Personally I liked the idea someone floated of a 4-2-3-1 to give the back four some cover, something like:

Pope

Kelly, Burn (Botman when back), Schar, Tino

Bruno, Tonali

Barnes, Willock, Gordon

Isak

Subs (I'd rotate these depending on game):

 

Dubravka, Trippier, Hall (bring off Burn and move Kelly inside), Big Joe, Longstaff, Murphy, Paula

 

Alternatively, a 3-4-1-2 in attack, switching to a 5 in defence (worked a treat against Spurs last season).

 

We definitely need a younger keeper to challenge Pope in next 2seasons, an out and out LB, a replacement for Schar in next 12-18months, another athletic CM to replace Longstaff, a new RW and a replacement for Wilson.