Ched Evans - Not Guilty

[Guest firetotheworks]

The only other context for that text that I can think of is showing off. But can you imagine how sad you'd have to be to text your mate because you've pulled 'a bird'...that's it, nothing else about her, just 'a bird' and sending it just to tell them. It does seem dodgy.

 

Although! If they were planning to share a hotel room, maybe he was sending it to give him a heads up.

 

Ah, I dunno man. I've been listening to too much Serial.

[Ally]

Certainly doesn't read as "beyond reasonable doubt" does it

[Guest firetotheworks]

Was he not staying at the hotel with him anyway? Hence the second hotel room?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

The prick should be locked up for life for what he did, he is lower than scum, how anyone drunk or otherwise could get enjoyment from f***ing basically a sleeping person is betond me. I hope the c*** breaks both his legs and neck!

 

Can I just point out that there is absolutely no evidence that either bloke had sex with her while she was sleeping or unconscious, in fact there is evidence that this was not the case (from the night porter who was listening outside the room). Nor is there any suggestion that the sex was actively against her will. The only question was whether or not she was so p*ssed that she was incapable of giving consent.

 

An expert witness at the trial estimated from the amount that she drank throughout the night, that at the time of the incident she would have been about 2½ times over the drink drive limit, (which I believe for the average woman would be the equivalent to the state they'd be in after drinking around 3 large wines). Apparently she was capable of texting her mates, capable of buying a pizza with the correct change, capable of picking up the bloke and inviting herself to his hotel, capable of remembering she'd left her pizza outside and nipping out for it (while being supposedly barely capable of standing), but subsequently - without having anything more to drink - incapable of offering consent.

 

I can only hope that noone on here has ever had casual sex with a woman who has had any more than a couple of glasses of wine, otherwise I guess they too should be considered rapists if the woman subsequently can't remember what happened. I also hope the police are actively pursuing any other men this woman may have slept with on other occasions where she would "normally and regularly drink well in excess of what she had consumed on this particular night out."

 

I wasn't being totally serious, but seemingly what he has shown is a complete lack of respect for another human being and that is just as ugly in some ways. I've had one or two of opportunities to do as I please with a lass (as I'm sure a lot of us have) who has been seriously drunk, including with my own wife, but I've refrained and that's because I like to treat people decently and also because if I want to have sex with someone I want to enjoy it and would also hope the other person enjoyed it too. If they were far too drunk... where is the fun in that?!

 

This is a true story - someone I used to work with brought a lass home, they were both drunk, but not hugely so, they were doing it then all of a sudden he pulled out and flipped her over, he then started to fuck her up the arse. She thought he was going to bang her doggy style. She said WTF are you doing and shouted no, but he continued for a bit and pulled out shooting his muck over her arse and back. She was angry and quickly got dressed and fucked off. The next day he was arrested for rape. He eventually got off as although she said no, she didn't try and force him off or anything and the arse rimming went on for a minute or so.

 

Me... the minute she says no, I'm out. This ex work 'mate' abused this lass and showed her a lack of respect by doing as he pleased and as a result he is scum in my eyes. A rapist? No, but just as bad in my opinion. Same with SU player.

 

Its kind of symptomatic it seems these days with young lads, especially wealthy young lads like footballers who think they can treat people as they please.

[newsted]

I've been discussing this with my wife, to get another point of view, and we both think it's a case of young people having stupid drunk sex, which is nothing new. That's how some of us are here at all. We both did it in the olden days before we met. Wouldn't have invited my mates like, but that seems to be part of the team ethic football engenders. It just seems weird and unhygienic to me, but each to their own.

 

What normally happens is you wake up the next day and think "Oh, shit, not again." and try to piece together what you did, then get on with your life. If everyone phoned the police and cried rape they'd have some very busy mornings and everyone would have a criminal record and be on the register forever.

 

But if you do, the criminal justice juggernaut starts rolling and you can't back down or you're in trouble instead, so you have to keep to your story. One thing that came up was that the missus has been on jury duty and - by definition - half of the jurors will be of below average intelligence. She said that there were some on her cases who had their minds made up before hearing any evidence, and they weren't going to change, so people who were clearly guilty got off and were free to reoffend. Obviously she couldn't give me any details. The same is bound to happen when someone is clearly not guilty.

 

In a "rape" case, there will be an emotional reaction from female jurors to add to that imbalance, and then you have to consider the judge almost certainly being out of touch with reality, more likely to be huntin', shootin' and fishin' than playing football, staying in Travelodges, binge-drinking and eating big pizzas.

 

To my mind, rape is a crime of brutal violence and/or domination, not opportunistic sex. It's very serious. Those people could kill. Mrs was raped by her teacher when she was 15, which was obviously him using his power to control. Btw I offered to kill him when I found out so many years too late, but the fucker had already gone and died. One of my sister's friends was raped in Greece and - I guess she was still dealing with it and needed to share - she told me they stuck a knife up her arse. That is violent and terrifying, and a long way from stupid, drunk, apparently consensual and enthusiastic, but regretted the next day, sex.

 

Actually, I was once accused of rape by another of my sister's friends at a party in Gateshead. Luckily there were 20 other people in the room at the time who knew it wasn't true, the lass was off her face on whatever, and, as sis said, "She's always doing that. She hasn't worked out she's a lesbian yet." Fucking could have given me a heads-up.

 

A bit surprised at the number of posts assuming a conviction is infallible proof of guilt, given the number of historical miscarriages of justice. I'd kinda thought we all questioned everything we're told, to nearly quote Jake Burns.

 

Having said all that, the lot of them are not nice people and I wouldn't have them as my friends, but nobody's life should be ruined at such an early age because of a series of impaired judgements.

 

OK. Tin hat on.

[newsted]

I wasn't being totally serious, but seemingly what he has shown is a complete lack of respect for another human being and that is just as ugly in some ways. I've had one or two of opportunities to do as I please with a lass (as I'm sure a lot of us have) who has been seriously drunk, including with my own wife, but I've refrained and that's because I like to treat people decently and also because if I want to have sex with someone I want to enjoy it and would also hope the other person enjoyed it too. If they were far too drunk... where is the fun in that?!

 

Absolutely this. I've knocked the wife back a number of times as she gets amorous with a drink or twelve in her. Young me was the same level of pissed as the lasses involved so I didn't feel I'd taken advantage, and they always got a fry-up, so I was playing fair. No harm, no foul. That was the game, and I never left anyone in a pissy hotel bed on their own. Bad form, that.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It works both ways like, I've woken up to already having relations with a girlfriend before.

 

 

It is a really, really difficult subject like, finding the right words to explain something without sounding like you're defending the actions of someone that left a girl on their own after sleeping with them, but also putting that to one side and looking at it from a more serious perspective in terms of rape and then what the definition of rape is (which, when you think or say that sounds like something along the lines of 'what's the definition of racism?' that racists come out with), so it's a tricky one to talk about, especially when it's with people who are unwilling to discuss it and have already made their minds up.

[ujpest doza]

The other element of fresh evidence was expert evidence prepared by Professor John Birch, a consultant pharmacologist, a professor of biomedical science. His specialist field is psycho-pharmacology. Towards the end of his report he says:

 

"From the evidence of [the complainant] she appears to have suffered anterior-grade amnesia as a result of the high dose of alcohol which she consumed, and in particular that she consumed a substantial dose of alcohol during the last hour or so prior to leaving the nightclub. It appears from the evidence that her short-term memory was functioning at the time around the incident, but that the long-term record of that memory has been ablated by the high concentration of alcohol. There is, therefore, no memory record of those events and attempts to jog the memory may lead to confabulation. The fact that she has no memory of events does not mean that she was not able to participate in a meaningful way in events at that time, and I am quite clear that this includes the ability to make informed decisions in relation to consent. Acute alcohol intoxication may lead to substantial disinhibition and that may in itself lead to unwise judgments being made. But the fact that she does no longer remember having made a decision is a failure of the memory process and not of the decision-making process. Evidence of memory loss as a result of anterior-grade amnesia does not in itself prove that she lacked the capacity to consent."

 

Then there's this.

 

A criticism of the summing-up involves an analysis of the directions given to the jury about the issue of consent in the context of the consumption of alcohol and/or drugs. The written submissions also criticised selected passages in the summing-up. There were two broad complaints. Firstly, that nowhere in the summing-up was it made clear to the jury that, even if the complainant was drunk, it did not necessarily mean that she had not consented; "a drunken consent is still a consent".

 

 

I still don't understand how he would be found guilty and his mate didn't. His mate did more imo...

 

That's fine but I mean, why text your mate "got a bird" with the intention of getting them to come over,its really predatory to me. I don't see any reasonable explanation for that.

 

edit: imo there is gonna be a large percentage of spaz football fans who will make his return pretty grim. That "ched evans he shags who he wants" has already been sung, that does not bode well tbh

I don't think he did text him I've got a bird to encourage him to come over.

IIRC Evans texted him to ask where he was as Evans and others were on their way to bail someone else out of clink due to an assault and he'd replied to say he wasn't coming as he'd got a bird and was on his way back to the hotel. The girl actually imposed herself on him, jumping in his taxi and telling him she was going back with him.

 

I just can't get my head round how his mate got off. How was she too drunk to give Evans consent but not his mate when she allegedly couldn't remember any of it and the police only knew they'd both had sex with her because they told them so.

 

Surely it's both convicted or neither??

[Guest firetotheworks]

The court report of McDonald himself doesn't say that she jumped in his taxi like. He said that she walked across his path, he asked where she was going, she responded by asking where he was going and then he said he was going to his hotel.

[Greg]

SUFC to confirm they will not offer him a contract tomorrow.

[ujpest doza]

The court report of McDonald himself doesn't say that she jumped in his taxi like. He said that she walked across his path, he asked where she was going, she responded by asking where he was going and then he said he was going to his hotel.

She invited herself though didn't she? not the other way round?

[newsted]

I've woken up to already having relations with a girlfriend before.

 

This euphemism always sounds so Norfolk.

[mrmojorisin75]

Can't get my head around him being convicted like, it's an incredible precedent to set imo.

 

By the way why has no mention been made of the two cunts watching and videoing through the window? You'd have imagined they'd have been able to testify as to her state.

[Raconteur]

He's contracted to Sheffield United, so they have to make a decision - and like we did with Nile Ranger, Joey Barton and Lee Bowyer (amongst others), the question isn't a moral one anymore. These days it's a financial decision, the result of a cost-benefit analysis.

 

Is he? Never knew that.

 

Because it isn't true.

Pretty sure he's not like.

 

My mistake - I thought he still was. In that case they don't have any sort of quandry at all, simply sign him or don't (as per previously detailed cost-benefit argument). As many have suggested, a lot of fans wouldn't want him associated with their club...

[nufcjb]

Would be ironic if a player takes out this cunt on whatever first game he plays.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It's starting to become more and more apparent that people have just taken the conviction as unquestionable proof of guilt.

[Guest RJberger]

Very serious allegations and consequently conviction - BUT Its not like its an assault rape in a park.

By no means making excuses, but once you you deal with intoxicated guys and girls in private arenas - things start getting really blurry.

If she was a bit of a bike, having sex with one guy and another one joins in etc, maybe she passes out because of alcohol drugs etc...

 

He should have known better, but being there, in bed , drunk and having sex with his friends etc - lines are not always so clear cut. Some of the blame has to be assigned to the girl, I dont buy the whole "the girl is never to blame" bollocks. They bloody are sometimes!

 

Speaking in general terms, its not very nice to wake up to a rape allegation - I have friends who have - following a girl who regrets the sex a bit, doesnt fancy the bloke anymore or he doesnt fancy her after all etc.  Funny how a bird can shag 100 blokes over half a year but one night when she figures out afterhand she wasnt really up for it she cries rape..

[Dokko]

I'd imagine he's a shadow of his former self football wise, and probably mentally in a strange place with all this surrounding controversy.

 

Should he be allowed? No, he was convicted of rape. Though he still denies it and i've heard his case is being looked in to again. If this is overturned then he should be allowed to go on to play football and she should be jailed for as long as he has been.

[Guest RJberger]

I'd imagine he's a shadow of his former self football wise, and probably mentally in a strange place with all this surrounding controversy.

 

Should he be allowed? No, he was convicted of rape. Though he still denies it and i've heard his case is being looked in to again. If this is overturned then he should be allowed to go on to play football and she should be jailed for as long as he has been.

 

Very hard to prove that she is lying about it, even when they have these girls on tape laughing and thanking people for the sex there is the "But in her mind it was rape etc" angle being rolled out...

[Si]

Very serious allegations and consequently conviction - BUT Its not like its an assault rape in a park.

By no means making excuses, but once you you deal with intoxicated guys and girls in private arenas - things start getting really blurry.

If she was a bit of a bike, having sex with one guy and another one joins in etc, maybe she passes out because of alcohol drugs etc...

 

He should have known better, but being there, in bed , drunk and having sex with his friends etc - lines are not always so clear cut. Some of the blame has to be assigned to the girl, I dont buy the whole "the girl is never to blame" bollocks. They bloody are sometimes!

 

Speaking in general terms, its not very nice to wake up to a rape allegation - I have friends who have - following a girl who regrets the sex a bit, doesnt fancy the bloke anymore or he doesnt fancy her after all etc.  Funny how a bird can shag 100 blokes over half a year but one night when she figures out afterhand she wasnt really up for it she cries rape..

 

A very nuanced argument citing some interesting  legal  precedents such as the 'bit of a bike' defence  and the 'wasn't  really  up for it cries rape' gambit, also the timeless 'well you shagged a 100 guys in a 182 days so it's  not rape'. You don't  get this subtle  grasp of the law very  often on the  internet.

 

Also nearly  forgot  the 'well your honour  it wasn't  in a park. The defence  rests.'

 

[buzza]

We could also take into consideration his very low moral standards: he had a current girlfriend.

This for me is also another nail in the rape conviction coffin... He was never up to any good from the instant he went to the hotel.

I reckon he should be lynched, hung from a tree with somebody beating his bollocks with a stick... (only joking)

[Guest RJberger]

 

Fair enough. Im a bit of a chauvinist, so Im not really bothered.

The price to pay for gender equality is taking responsibility for your actions, something young women today seldom tends to do.

 

Shag around enough times, you are bound to get a negative experience sooner or later.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The insinuation that cheating on his girlfriend is the smoke to the fire of him having raped someone is an interesting one. And of course by interesting I mean completely fucking stupid.

[mrmojorisin75]

i mean i'm not misreading this right, he was convicted on absolutely fucking nothing?

 

she was mortal and doesn't remember a single thing so the jury have decided that consent wasn't consent in this case and he therefore 'raped' her?  even though she doesn't know what happened herself and might have been right into it at the time....how utterly fucked is that man

 

he's clearly been/is an arsehole and they've both treated the lass like dirt but going to the big house for rape for that?  terrifying man, absolutely terrifying, and now he's potentially going to be prevented from doing one thing that many of us would give a body part to do professionally at any level...

 

[Guest RJberger]

thats when you know feminism has gone too far