30 years since the Heysel disaster

[Guest firetotheworks]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

[Incognito]

There is no doubt though that there were also the usual hooligan element that didn't even support Liverpool with the Liverpool hooligans that night. Chelsea and Millwall fans for whom European football was a definite no go were involved plus other hooligans who followed England at that point of time.

[Lush Vlad]

No doubt?  Is there any evidence backing that up?  As I read that there was allegedly a National Front involvement, hooligans from Chelsea or some London club.  That was shot down in the article I read?

[afar]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

They ran towards a neutral area of the ground, which was mostly filled with Juve fans, those "neutral" fans were completely innocent victims no doubt about that and the guilt lies firmly with the Liverpool fans who did as you say run towards them. The wall itself was not fit forpurpose, but that wouldn't have been an issue had the Liverpool fans not behaved in the way they did.

 

There were however a hell of a lot Juve hooligans as well, they were located at the other end of the stadium though well away from the Liverpool fans, those pictures of them masked and running onto the field were clearly shown on the TV, it was just a long way for them to get to the Liverpool fans.

[afar]

No doubt?  Is there any evidence backing that up?  As I read that there was allegedly a National Front involvement, hooligans from Chelsea or some London club.  That was shot down in the article I read?

 

The national Front was everywhere in football back there. When I first started going to games back in the late 70's and early 80's there were always NF people outside SJP handing out flyers and such, I'm sure the same was true at other clubs.

[B-more Mag]

No doubt?  Is there any evidence backing that up?  As I read that there was allegedly a National Front involvement, hooligans from Chelsea or some London club.  That was shot down in the article I read?

 

The national Front was everywhere in football back there. When I first started going to games back in the late 70's and early 80's there were always NF people outside SJP handing out flyers and such, I'm sure the same was true at other clubs.

 

Among the Thugs, by Bill Buford, addresses some of the overlap between football firms and national front elements (generally speaking, not necessarily in relation to Heysel). It's a really good read.

[ujpest doza]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

They ran towards a neutral area of the ground, which was mostly filled with Juve fans, those "neutral" fans were completely innocent victims no doubt about that and the guilt lies firmly with the Liverpool fans who did as you say run towards them. The wall itself was not fit forpurpose, but that wouldn't have been an issue had the Liverpool fans not behaved in the way they did.

 

There were however a hell of a lot Juve hooligans as well, they were located at the other end of the stadium though well away from the Liverpool fans, those pictures of them masked and running onto the field were clearly shown on the TV, it was just a long way for them to get to the Liverpool fans.

I remember watching it vividly.

The Juve fans rioting at the other end of the pitch was after the wall had collapsed, it was in response to what had happened at the Liverpool/Neutral end, they had nothing to do with the disaster itself which was caused by a couple of hundred Liverpool fans in a crowd of almost 60K.

 

[afar]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

They ran towards a neutral area of the ground, which was mostly filled with Juve fans, those "neutral" fans were completely innocent victims no doubt about that and the guilt lies firmly with the Liverpool fans who did as you say run towards them. The wall itself was not fit forpurpose, but that wouldn't have been an issue had the Liverpool fans not behaved in the way they did.

 

There were however a hell of a lot Juve hooligans as well, they were located at the other end of the stadium though well away from the Liverpool fans, those pictures of them masked and running onto the field were clearly shown on the TV, it was just a long way for them to get to the Liverpool fans.

I remember watching it vividly.

The Juve fans rioting at the other end of the pitch was after the wall had collapsed, it was in response to what had happened at the Liverpool/Neutral end, they had nothing to do with the disaster itself which was caused by a couple of hundred Liverpool fans in a crowd of almost 60K.

 

 

The banners they had with them, the masks they used to conceal their faces, clearly showed they had premeditated something, if the roles had been reversed and these Juve fans had been located in the area the Liverpool hooligans had been with that ridiculous wall  separating them from multitudes of Liverpool fans. I would not have been surprised if the situation would have happen again only in reverse.

 

There was clearly ill feeling between the two sets of fans for some years, Liverpool were the kings of Europe while Juve were busy buying the best players on the continent to dethrone them.The rivalry had  spilled over to violence and tension building throughout the day. Both teams had the hooligan element though, whether Juve fans were reacting to what happened or not, Juve fans just didn't turn into hooligans because of the tragedy, it was very much there and they were both looking for a fight.

 

Anyone who went to see ourselves play in inter in the San Siro in the Champs League will testify that Italian football fans are no angels and apparently Liverpool fans had been subjected to some pretty awful treatment in the previous years final which had been ridiculously held in Rome against Roma. Again not exonerating Liverpool here, but trying to strike some balance.

[The College Dropout]

Good insight Afar :tu

[Incognito]

No doubt?  Is there any evidence backing that up?  As I read that there was allegedly a National Front involvement, hooligans from Chelsea or some London club.  That was shot down in the article I read?

I spoke to fans from both clubs during my trip to Germany for Euro 88, and indeed others who claimed they were there. It seemed pretty common knowledge amongst the England fans . Horrible trip that was in all ways. Wish I'd kept the money and put it by for Italia 90.

[ujpest doza]

No doubt?  Is there any evidence backing that up?  As I read that there was allegedly a National Front involvement, hooligans from Chelsea or some London club.  That was shot down in the article I read?

I spoke to fans from both clubs during my trip to Germany for Euro 88, and indeed others who claimed they were there. It seemed pretty common knowledge amongst the England fans . Horrible trip that was in all ways. Wish I'd kept the money and put it by for Italia 90.

Everton Hoolie book - Scally.

The author of that was at Heysel along with other Evertonians just for a few days on the drink/rob, but whether there really were Chelsea or a large NF presecence is anyone's guess.

 

I read something yesterday that said 60% of the English fans extradited and tried for their part in it were from Merseyside with the other 40% from as far afield as Aberdeen and Ipswich. Admittedly that's 40% of about 30 people so not really a true barometer and you have to add in the fact that Liverpool were like Man united and had fans from all over the place due purely to their success.

 

[Lush Vlad]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

They ran towards a neutral area of the ground, which was mostly filled with Juve fans, those "neutral" fans were completely innocent victims no doubt about that and the guilt lies firmly with the Liverpool fans who did as you say run towards them. The wall itself was not fit forpurpose, but that wouldn't have been an issue had the Liverpool fans not behaved in the way they did.

 

There were however a hell of a lot Juve hooligans as well, they were located at the other end of the stadium though well away from the Liverpool fans, those pictures of them masked and running onto the field were clearly shown on the TV, it was just a long way for them to get to the Liverpool fans.

I remember watching it vividly.

The Juve fans rioting at the other end of the pitch was after the wall had collapsed, it was in response to what had happened at the Liverpool/Neutral end, they had nothing to do with the disaster itself which was caused by a couple of hundred Liverpool fans in a crowd of almost 60K.

 

 

The banners they had with them, the masks they used to conceal their faces, clearly showed they had premeditated something, if the roles had been reversed and these Juve fans had been located in the area the Liverpool hooligans had been with that ridiculous wall  separating them from multitudes of Liverpool fans. I would not have been surprised if the situation would have happen again only in reverse.

 

There was clearly ill feeling between the two sets of fans for some years, Liverpool were the kings of Europe while Juve were busy buying the best players on the continent to dethrone them.The rivalry had  spilled over to violence and tension building throughout the day. Both teams had the hooligan element though, whether Juve fans were reacting to what happened or not, Juve fans just didn't turn into hooligans because of the tragedy, it was very much there and they were both looking for a fight.

 

Anyone who went to see ourselves play in inter in the San Siro in the Champs League will testify that Italian football fans are no angels and apparently Liverpool fans had been subjected to some pretty awful treatment in the previous years final which had been ridiculously held in Rome against Roma. Again not exonerating Liverpool here, but trying to strike some balance.

 

Good post.  But the bit in bold is exactly what I was referring to when scousers make excuses about Heysel.  What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

Hooliganism was common place in those times, hooligans from a different team, in a different city gave you a bit of a hiding.  So you use that as some kind of excuse to kick off?  Not buying it. 

[ujpest doza]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

They ran towards a neutral area of the ground, which was mostly filled with Juve fans, those "neutral" fans were completely innocent victims no doubt about that and the guilt lies firmly with the Liverpool fans who did as you say run towards them. The wall itself was not fit forpurpose, but that wouldn't have been an issue had the Liverpool fans not behaved in the way they did.

 

There were however a hell of a lot Juve hooligans as well, they were located at the other end of the stadium though well away from the Liverpool fans, those pictures of them masked and running onto the field were clearly shown on the TV, it was just a long way for them to get to the Liverpool fans.

I remember watching it vividly.

The Juve fans rioting at the other end of the pitch was after the wall had collapsed, it was in response to what had happened at the Liverpool/Neutral end, they had nothing to do with the disaster itself which was caused by a couple of hundred Liverpool fans in a crowd of almost 60K.

 

 

The banners they had with them, the masks they used to conceal their faces, clearly showed they had premeditated something, if the roles had been reversed and these Juve fans had been located in the area the Liverpool hooligans had been with that ridiculous wall  separating them from multitudes of Liverpool fans. I would not have been surprised if the situation would have happen again only in reverse.

 

There was clearly ill feeling between the two sets of fans for some years, Liverpool were the kings of Europe while Juve were busy buying the best players on the continent to dethrone them.The rivalry had  spilled over to violence and tension building throughout the day. Both teams had the hooligan element though, whether Juve fans were reacting to what happened or not, Juve fans just didn't turn into hooligans because of the tragedy, it was very much there and they were both looking for a fight.

 

Anyone who went to see ourselves play in inter in the San Siro in the Champs League will testify that Italian football fans are no angels and apparently Liverpool fans had been subjected to some pretty awful treatment in the previous years final which had been ridiculously held in Rome against Roma. Again not exonerating Liverpool here, but trying to strike some balance.

 

Good post.  But the bit in bold is exactly what I was referring to when scousers make excuses about Heysel.  What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

Hooliganism was common place in those times, hooligans from a different team, in a different city gave you a bit of a hiding.  So you use that as some kind of excuse to kick off?  Not buying it. 

As well as the fact that the city the game was/is played in is decided a couple of years beforehand, eg Man Utd v Chelsea in Moscow, Chelsea v Munich in Munich, Atleti v Real in Lisbon etc.

[afar]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

They ran towards a neutral area of the ground, which was mostly filled with Juve fans, those "neutral" fans were completely innocent victims no doubt about that and the guilt lies firmly with the Liverpool fans who did as you say run towards them. The wall itself was not fit forpurpose, but that wouldn't have been an issue had the Liverpool fans not behaved in the way they did.

 

There were however a hell of a lot Juve hooligans as well, they were located at the other end of the stadium though well away from the Liverpool fans, those pictures of them masked and running onto the field were clearly shown on the TV, it was just a long way for them to get to the Liverpool fans.

I remember watching it vividly.

The Juve fans rioting at the other end of the pitch was after the wall had collapsed, it was in response to what had happened at the Liverpool/Neutral end, they had nothing to do with the disaster itself which was caused by a couple of hundred Liverpool fans in a crowd of almost 60K.

 

 

The banners they had with them, the masks they used to conceal their faces, clearly showed they had premeditated something, if the roles had been reversed and these Juve fans had been located in the area the Liverpool hooligans had been with that ridiculous wall  separating them from multitudes of Liverpool fans. I would not have been surprised if the situation would have happen again only in reverse.

 

There was clearly ill feeling between the two sets of fans for some years, Liverpool were the kings of Europe while Juve were busy buying the best players on the continent to dethrone them.The rivalry had  spilled over to violence and tension building throughout the day. Both teams had the hooligan element though, whether Juve fans were reacting to what happened or not, Juve fans just didn't turn into hooligans because of the tragedy, it was very much there and they were both looking for a fight.

 

Anyone who went to see ourselves play in inter in the San Siro in the Champs League will testify that Italian football fans are no angels and apparently Liverpool fans had been subjected to some pretty awful treatment in the previous years final which had been ridiculously held in Rome against Roma. Again not exonerating Liverpool here, but trying to strike some balance.

 

Good post.  But the bit in bold is exactly what I was referring to when scousers make excuses about Heysel.  What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

Hooliganism was common place in those times, hooligans from a different team, in a different city gave you a bit of a hiding.  So you use that as some kind of excuse to kick off?  Not buying it. 

 

You're right, nothing really, just trying to show how the two parties viewed one another. There was definitely an England versus Italy thing going on back then, England were the dominant  country in terms of club football back then, there was a stretch where English clubs only won the European Cup. England believed they had the best league in the world and results in Europe proved that with Liverpool being the dominant club.  Italy though was at the beginning of it' own dominance of the club game. Their league was the place to be for much of the world's talent. Naturally the nationalists from both countries saw this as a banner to fight behind and that fed into the hooliganism we saw during the period.

 

Liverpool fans were seen as the good guys in this era really, they were never really tarnished with the hooligan brush that many London based clubs or the national team were. It's  easy though to be good fans when you win everything, I guess!! Anyway they had obviously felt that sense of injustice from the previous final, some groups like the NF had infiltrated their ranks and all this led to the disaster of the 1985 final. I think they are so happy to sweep this under the carpet as a club, because firstly none of their own died in the stadium and secondly they were so outraged that anyone could find fault with their support, they felt they were beyond criticism and it hit them suddenly that they were just part of the problem like every other team in the country. There is definitely a sense of shame there, the Hillsborough disaster a couple of years later in a sense helped them push Hysell under the carpet as they were the victims this time.

[Tsunami]

Liverpool fans were to blame for that end of the ground and I have to say that around that time their fans weren't adverse to causing bother wherever they went. The ground wasn't fit to host the game. I have a vivid memory of a Juve fan with a gun in his hand on the track behind their goal.

 

I have to say that I've met more shithouse Liverpool fans than any other set of fans in this country.

[ujpest doza]

I'll have to watch the documentary. My understanding was that the Liverpool fans ran at the Juve fans, who retreated over the wall, which then collapsed onto the Juve fans?

They ran towards a neutral area of the ground, which was mostly filled with Juve fans, those "neutral" fans were completely innocent victims no doubt about that and the guilt lies firmly with the Liverpool fans who did as you say run towards them. The wall itself was not fit forpurpose, but that wouldn't have been an issue had the Liverpool fans not behaved in the way they did.

 

There were however a hell of a lot Juve hooligans as well, they were located at the other end of the stadium though well away from the Liverpool fans, those pictures of them masked and running onto the field were clearly shown on the TV, it was just a long way for them to get to the Liverpool fans.

I remember watching it vividly.

The Juve fans rioting at the other end of the pitch was after the wall had collapsed, it was in response to what had happened at the Liverpool/Neutral end, they had nothing to do with the disaster itself which was caused by a couple of hundred Liverpool fans in a crowd of almost 60K.

 

 

The banners they had with them, the masks they used to conceal their faces, clearly showed they had premeditated something, if the roles had been reversed and these Juve fans had been located in the area the Liverpool hooligans had been with that ridiculous wall  separating them from multitudes of Liverpool fans. I would not have been surprised if the situation would have happen again only in reverse.

 

There was clearly ill feeling between the two sets of fans for some years, Liverpool were the kings of Europe while Juve were busy buying the best players on the continent to dethrone them.The rivalry had  spilled over to violence and tension building throughout the day. Both teams had the hooligan element though, whether Juve fans were reacting to what happened or not, Juve fans just didn't turn into hooligans because of the tragedy, it was very much there and they were both looking for a fight.

 

Anyone who went to see ourselves play in inter in the San Siro in the Champs League will testify that Italian football fans are no angels and apparently Liverpool fans had been subjected to some pretty awful treatment in the previous years final which had been ridiculously held in Rome against Roma. Again not exonerating Liverpool here, but trying to strike some balance.

 

Good post.  But the bit in bold is exactly what I was referring to when scousers make excuses about Heysel.  What's that got to do with the price of fish?

 

Hooliganism was common place in those times, hooligans from a different team, in a different city gave you a bit of a hiding.  So you use that as some kind of excuse to kick off?  Not buying it. 

 

You're right, nothing really, just trying to show how the two parties viewed one another. There was definitely an England versus Italy thing going on back then, England were the dominant  country in terms of club football back then, there was a stretch where English clubs only won the European Cup. England believed they had the best league in the world and results in Europe proved that with Liverpool being the dominant club.  Italy though was at the beginning of it' own dominance of the club game. Their league was the place to be for much of the world's talent. Naturally the nationalists from both countries saw this as a banner to fight behind and that fed into the hooliganism we saw during the period.

 

Liverpool fans were seen as the good guys in this era really, they were never really tarnished with the hooligan brush that many London based clubs or the national team were. It's  easy though to be good fans when you win everything, I guess!! Anyway they had obviously felt that sense of injustice from the previous final, some groups like the NF had infiltrated their ranks and all this led to the disaster of the 1985 final. I think they are so happy to sweep this under the carpet as a club, because firstly none of their own died in the stadium and secondly they were so outraged that anyone could find fault with their support, they felt they were beyond criticism and it hit them suddenly that they were just part of the problem like every other team in the country. There is definitely a sense of shame there, the Hillsborough disaster a couple of years later in a sense helped them push Hysell under the carpet as they were the victims this time.

Not to anyone who visited Anfield in the 70's and 80's they weren't.

Snidey fuckers caused as much bother as anybody else back then and some more with their European jaunts seeing jewellery shops, sports shops and designer clothing stores looted on a regular basis.

 

[afar]

I don't dispute that but they certainly did not have a reputation for a hooligan element in Europe, like the national team certainly had and they played in Europe much more than anyone else back then.

 

Anyway the point I was making was that they went from a perceived (whether that was self only is open to debate) good reputation, to being the epitome of an era of shame for English football and they didn't like that one bit, so naturally have attempted to push it under the carpet for so long. 

[Tsunami]

I don't dispute that but they certainly did not have a reputation for a hooligan element in Europe, like the national team certainly had and they played in Europe much more than anyone else back then.

 

Anyway the point I was making was that they went from a perceived (whether that was self only is open to debate) good reputation, to being the epitome of an era of shame for English football and they didn't like that one bit, so naturally have attempted to push it under the carpet for so long. 

 

Their fans gave it Billy Big Bollocks because their team was so good and they didn't like anyone saying otherwise or challenging their best fans tag. I had trouble at Anfield in the KK cup game and even up here in his Farewell game. Great side they had, they were followed by some right toe rags. They've been trying to rewrite large parts of their history. Not met a single good humoured Lpool fan, met some who've given it the jolly scouser routine as a prelude to bother. Had a car load of them trying to flag us down on the A69 looking for a fight. Shit Houses.

[afar]

I don't dispute that but they certainly did not have a reputation for a hooligan element in Europe, like the national team certainly had and they played in Europe much more than anyone else back then.

 

Anyway the point I was making was that they went from a perceived (whether that was self only is open to debate) good reputation, to being the epitome of an era of shame for English football and they didn't like that one bit, so naturally have attempted to push it under the carpet for so long. 

 

Their fans gave it Billy Big Bollocks because their team was so good and they didn't like anyone saying otherwise or challenging their best fans tag. I had trouble at Anfield in the KK cup game and even up here in his Farewell game. Great side they had, they were followed by some right toe rags. They've been trying to rewrite large parts of their history. Not met a single good humoured Lpool fan, met some who've given it the jolly scouser routine as a prelude to bother. Had a car load of them trying to flag us down on the A69 looking for a fight. s*** Houses.

 

No doubt, I remember one game at SJP, I think it was the one we drew and Frank Pingle scored off the back of his head. I was sat in the old wooden west stand and a couple of Liverpool fans were sat right behind me. They spent the whole game taking the piss out of Miradihna, some of it was humour today we would be shocked at but they were pretty funny, we had a good banter going back and forth with them.

 

But got to remember where they come from, one of the poorest cities in the country with some sectarian influence too at a troubled time. Like a fair few in the Gallowgate Corner, there was a lot of undesirables in their support. Every club had that element to them tos ome degree, only Liverpool seemed to think and the media seemed to portray them as different, Hysell changed all that.

[Holloway]

At the time knew a group of Liverpool fans who went to all the games,and they were a bit edgy to say the least.They were at Rome the previous game and said it was the scariest episode of their lives,there was multiple stabbings and the police just evaporated.They went to Heysel with a vengence in their minds,and said fuck all about what was behind the tragic circumstances afterwards.

[Mick]

I don't dispute that but they certainly did not have a reputation for a hooligan element in Europe, like the national team certainly had and they played in Europe much more than anyone else back then.

 

Anyway the point I was making was that they went from a perceived (whether that was self only is open to debate) good reputation, to being the epitome of an era of shame for English football and they didn't like that one bit, so naturally have attempted to push it under the carpet for so long. 

 

Their fans gave it Billy Big Bollocks because their team was so good and they didn't like anyone saying otherwise or challenging their best fans tag. I had trouble at Anfield in the KK cup game and even up here in his Farewell game. Great side they had, they were followed by some right toe rags. They've been trying to rewrite large parts of their history. Not met a single good humoured Lpool fan, met some who've given it the jolly scouser routine as a prelude to bother. Had a car load of them trying to flag us down on the A69 looking for a fight. s*** Houses.

 

I've met loads and can honestly say that I have never had a problem with Liverpool fans anywhere.  I've had some great times with them both when we've played them and when we've both been playing in London.

 

Everton fans, that's a totally different story and I can't stand them.

[brummie]

There is no doubt though that there were also the usual hooligan element that didn't even support Liverpool with the Liverpool hooligans that night. Chelsea and Millwall fans for whom European football was a definite no go were involved plus other hooligans who followed England at that point of time.

 

 

I don't know about this match in particular, but I do know that it was actually reasonably common in the 80s when English clubs played abroad, for there to be a lot of English fans there, who didn't support the team, but were after trouble.

 

Also, at the time, we had tens of thousands of soldiers stationed in Germany, and it was quite well known for a lot of them to go to matches when English teams played nearby.

 

We played at Anderlecht in the European Cup semi final in 1982, and there was shit loads of trouble. So much we were worried about getting kicked out for a while.

 

It is pretty much an accepted truth amongst our fans that, although yes, of course it was our idiots causing most of the trouble, there were a lot of pissed up squaddies there who were up for it. When the Anderlecht fans started chanting "Argentina" (this was while the Falklands war was going on), it got particularly nasty.

 

Not saying that there were a lot of non Liverpool fans involved at Heysel, as I don't know, just saying that back in the day it was quite common for outsiders to get involved.

[brummie]

re the Hillsborough thing, there is absolutely zero reason to link the two, as has been said, one was a case of fans being falsely blamed, families losing their children, which was bad enough, but then having to wait a quarter of a century to get justice, all the time having been smeared by the establishment.

 

it is one of the things this country can really feel thoroughly fucking ashamed for in the last few decades.

 

Having said that, Heysel, on the other hand, was hooliganism pure and simple. Yes, the stadium was crumbling. Yes, the organisation was awful, the police were terrible, and back then football took massive gambles with safety, but that doesn't stop it being a result of hooliganism.

 

I often find it puzzling that the fact an English team's fans caused so many lives to be lost is so willingly overlooked.

[brummie]

I don't dispute that but they certainly did not have a reputation for a hooligan element in Europe, like the national team certainly had and they played in Europe much more than anyone else back then.

 

Anyway the point I was making was that they went from a perceived (whether that was self only is open to debate) good reputation, to being the epitome of an era of shame for English football and they didn't like that one bit, so naturally have attempted to push it under the carpet for so long. 

 

Their fans gave it Billy Big Bollocks because their team was so good and they didn't like anyone saying otherwise or challenging their best fans tag. I had trouble at Anfield in the KK cup game and even up here in his Farewell game. Great side they had, they were followed by some right toe rags. They've been trying to rewrite large parts of their history. Not met a single good humoured Lpool fan, met some who've given it the jolly scouser routine as a prelude to bother. Had a car load of them trying to flag us down on the A69 looking for a fight. s*** Houses.

 

I've met loads and can honestly say that I have never had a problem with Liverpool fans anywhere.  I've had some great times with them both when we've played them and when we've both been playing in London.

 

Everton fans, that's a totally different story and I can't stand them.

 

We got chatting to a load of Liverpool fans at the semi final last month, and they were all to a man friendly, chatty, and gracious in defeat. Their away support is usually a horrendous melange of fat Irish blokes and Scandos in jester hats and half and half scarves, but their scouse fans are a decent lot.

 

Everton on the other hand have always been a bit different. There has always been a respect for them from our fans - it is the most played fixture in English football history, after all, and the two clubs are basically extremely similar - but it doesn't seem to be reciprocated.

 

Their away support is odd, too. They usually sell out, but are about the only club who can bring a full allocation, all of whom spend the whole 90 minutes sat down, shouting "handball!" every five minutes.

[afar]

There is no doubt though that there were also the usual hooligan element that didn't even support Liverpool with the Liverpool hooligans that night. Chelsea and Millwall fans for whom European football was a definite no go were involved plus other hooligans who followed England at that point of time.

 

 

I don't know about this match in particular, but I do know that it was actually reasonably common in the 80s when English clubs played abroad, for there to be a lot of English fans there, who didn't support the team, but were after trouble.

 

Also, at the time, we had tens of thousands of soldiers stationed in Germany, and it was quite well known for a lot of them to go to matches when English teams played nearby.

 

We played at Anderlecht in the European Cup semi final in 1982, and there was s*** loads of trouble. So much we were worried about getting kicked out for a while.

 

It is pretty much an accepted truth amongst our fans that, although yes, of course it was our idiots causing most of the trouble, there were a lot of p*ssed up squaddies there who were up for it. When the Anderlecht fans started chanting "Argentina" (this was while the Falklands war was going on), it got particularly nasty.

 

Not saying that there were a lot of non Liverpool fans involved at Heysel, as I don't know, just saying that back in the day it was quite common for outsiders to get involved.

 

Culturally it was a completely different time as well. When English teams played in Europe, no matter who they were the bulk of the country were behind them. These hooligans saw it a a case for national pride, and attached themselves to any English club competing in Europe.