mrmojorisin75 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 No way could he funnel £90m to SD from NUFC like that. Everything has to be reported to the market, it could never just slip by not to mention the huge conflict of interest issues. Wheres the conflict of interest? Also, MA taking cash out of Newcastle United is not a reportable event other than in the annual accounts where his loan balance will be documented. MA putting money into SD (again its likely to be adjusting a loan balance to or from SD from or to MA) would only be reportable in the same way. Its completely understandable that we all think that what MA is doing is criminal in terms of running a football club, but in reality it is 'criminal', not criminal. The only thing we could possibly have on him - and its tenuous at best - is that as a director he can not make decisions/actions that he knows are detrimental to the company. As we remain solvent and (presumably) are paying our creditors he would also pass this. It sucks, but technically not doing anything wrong so they don't have announce a cash input of £90m, if indeed that has happened, until the relevant years accounts? SD that is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 any further news about the whereabouts of the true forum minutes, or when they could be revealed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 No way could he funnel £90m to SD from NUFC like that. Everything has to be reported to the market, it could never just slip by not to mention the huge conflict of interest issues. Wheres the conflict of interest? Also, MA taking cash out of Newcastle United is not a reportable event other than in the annual accounts where his loan balance will be documented. MA putting money into SD (again its likely to be adjusting a loan balance to or from SD from or to MA) would only be reportable in the same way. Its completely understandable that we all think that what MA is doing is criminal in terms of running a football club, but in reality it is 'criminal', not criminal. The only thing we could possibly have on him - and its tenuous at best - is that as a director he can not make decisions/actions that he knows are detrimental to the company. As we remain solvent and (presumably) are paying our creditors he would also pass this. It sucks, but technically not doing anything wrong so they don't have announce a cash input of £90m, if indeed that has happened, until the relevant years accounts? SD that is I wouldn't have thought so, there will be certain times that they need to (cash injection through additional share issues etc) but 90% of the FTSE 100 will have external loans of various guises that you never hear about (bank loans being the obvious one). You'd be surprised how little actually needs to be reported as it happens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raconteur Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Not just that, but someone asked how well these things are regulated - if it’s anything like Australia, then probably not at all! We’re having a Royal Commission into our financial system, which uncovers some blatant robbery (legal and illegal) over thirty years while the regulator looks the other way. The political class aren’t going after capitalist winners like Ashley - they’re the heroes of their goddamned system! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 But where did the cash come from I doubt Sports Direct has £90 million in the bank, also the article says it was purchased through "complex financial instruments" so has he not raised the money from here there and everywhere ? As of last financial statements, SD had £360m cash available, plus a relatively small amount of £150m or so under their corporate revolving facilities. Ashley must disclose any purchase of shares to the market as soon as it happens, SD is a plc and the reporting requirements for a plc and for a private company like NUFC are totally different. There have been no recent filings for an acquisition of shares by Ashley. Any loan of funds from MA to SD of that size would almost certainly have to be reported. I don't see it as likely that hard cash that was generated by NUFC was moved into SD to purchase HOF, there would have to have been a disclosure which would have given it away. Plus whenever anything is acquired via SD, he is using 40% of other people's money to do so. FWIW I do think SD has got itself in a right mess with its ill-fated acquisition spree and it is close to fully drawn on its bank facilities. It can probably raise more debt because it's still a massive cash generator but retail is a volatile business and given Ashley's reputation there will be a premium to pay for any long-term finance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heake Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 But where did the cash come from I doubt Sports Direct has £90 million in the bank, also the article says it was purchased through "complex financial instruments" so has he not raised the money from here there and everywhere ? As of last financial statements, SD had £360m cash available, plus a relatively small amount of £150m or so under their corporate revolving facilities. Ashley must disclose any purchase of shares to the market as soon as it happens, SD is a plc and the reporting requirements for a plc and for a private company like NUFC are totally different. There have been no recent filings for an acquisition of shares by Ashley. Any loan of funds from MA to SD of that size would almost certainly have to be reported. I don't see it as likely that hard cash that was generated by NUFC was moved into SD to purchase HOF, there would have to have been a disclosure which would have given it away. Plus whenever anything is acquired via SD, he is using 40% of other people's money to do so. FWIW I do think SD has got itself in a right mess with its ill-fated acquisition spree and it is close to fully drawn on its bank facilities. It can probably raise more debt because it's still a massive cash generator but retail is a volatile business and given Ashley's reputation there will be a premium to pay for any long-term finance. I just wonder if Ashley has manoeuvred his ego into a position whereby he feels pretty much invincible surrounded by sycophants / yes men that lack the balls to rein him in. The cue to watch him crash & burn gets longer every day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I still don't understand why he bought House of Fraser at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heake Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I still don't understand why he bought House of Fraser at all. I wonder what their asset value (In terms of real estate) was & would guess that must have been a factor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Boy Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 I still don't understand why he bought House of Fraser at all. in simple terms he got £250m worth of prime site buildings for £90m. What he will do now is move his tat shop into some of them or on a floor of the bigger ones. Sell the rest and make a huge profit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Yeah I guess. I just thought a lot of their premises were rented anyway, and only a handful will have suitable sizes and locations for Sports Direct. Anyway, sure he knows what he’s doing (in retail only). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 if it was as simple as spending £90m to get £250m someone else would have done it before him imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 if it was as simple as spending £90m to get £250m someone else would have done it before him imo The reason it was £90m was because it went into administration but Ashley and the Administrator are under investigation for the deal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 if it was as simple as spending £90m to get £250m someone else would have done it before him imo Other potential buyers were lined up but Ashley mysteriously ended up winning the bid. Another buyer had made a much better offer as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 if it was as simple as spending £90m to get £250m someone else would have done it before him imo Other potential buyers were lined up but Ashley mysteriously ended up winning the bid. Another buyer had made a much better offer as well. It's under investigation apparently, Ashley's deal means the tax payer has to pickup pension shortfall etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 if it was as simple as spending £90m to get £250m someone else would have done it before him imo Other potential buyers were lined up but Ashley mysteriously ended up winning the bid. Another buyer had made a much better offer as well. It's under investigation apparently, Ashley's deal means the tax payer has to pickup pension shortfall etc. Im sure one of the other bidders made a much better offer and had offered to protect the pensions of the HoF staff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Ashley is a sharkiouscuntious in a pool of sharkiouscuntious. This time Ashley beat the other sharkiouscuntious my using alpha sharkiouscuntious means. The other alphas are not happy and they'll be preparing to get him. The sharkiouscuntious species is a bitter, ego-driven petty breed. They're all the same and only a fool would think one is better than the other. Ashleyshark doodoodoodoodoo..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odear Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Source of funding. In short, the fat c*** took out the money from us and purchased HoF, and "very likely" he treated this as a new loan to Sports Direct. Wouldn't that need to be declared to the stock market? It depends on who exactly bought House of Fraser. If it was Mike Ashley, then no he wouldn’t need to announce it to the stock market. The money is his. NUFC is literally just another bank account for him to move funds around. this is why i asked the question, it was reported as SD bought HoF and indeed it was announced to the stock exchange https://news.sky.com/story/mike-ashleys-sports-direct-buys-house-of-fraser-for-90m-11468296 so how the f*** could the two be linked directly? If he can personally loan the club money and have that hang over us, you can bet he’s doing the exact same with SD. He’s literally using all his business entities as bank accounts. Moving one pile of cash around to another until he needs it. It was well reported that SD were not in a strong cash position recently. So how do they suddenly have 90m available? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Source of funding. In short, the fat c*** took out the money from us and purchased HoF, and "very likely" he treated this as a new loan to Sports Direct. Wouldn't that need to be declared to the stock market? It depends on who exactly bought House of Fraser. If it was Mike Ashley, then no he wouldn’t need to announce it to the stock market. The money is his. NUFC is literally just another bank account for him to move funds around. this is why i asked the question, it was reported as SD bought HoF and indeed it was announced to the stock exchange https://news.sky.com/story/mike-ashleys-sports-direct-buys-house-of-fraser-for-90m-11468296 so how the f*** could the two be linked directly? If he can personally loan the club money and have that hang over us, you can bet he’s doing the exact same with SD. He’s literally using all his business entities as bank accounts. Moving one pile of cash around to another until he needs it. It was well reported that SD were not in a strong cash position recently. So how do they suddenly have 90m available? It's different with a publicly traded company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 HoF didnt own their stores (or at least the vast majority)- they were leased which is pretty standard for the sector. Ashley has used the admin process to try to screw down the landlords. Dept stores are big multi-level beasts. Floorspace that big isnt easy to re-let in the current market and he knows it. He’s literally using all his business entities as bank accounts. Moving one pile of cash around to another until he needs it. It was well reported that SD were not in a strong cash position recently. So how do they suddenly have 90m available? From the £360m they had at the end of April Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happinesstan Posted October 10, 2018 Share Posted October 10, 2018 HoF didnt own their stores (or at least the vast majority)- they were leased which is pretty standard for the sector. Ashley has used the admin process to try to screw down the landlords. Dept stores are big multi-level beasts. Floorspace that big isnt easy to re-let in the current market and he knows it. He’s literally using all his business entities as bank accounts. Moving one pile of cash around to another until he needs it. It was well reported that SD were not in a strong cash position recently. So how do they suddenly have 90m available? From the £360m they had at the end of April Amazon are looking for retail space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted November 5, 2018 Share Posted November 5, 2018 so..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeToon Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 so..... A needle pulling thread? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 why no update? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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