Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Guest Howaythetoon]

The only thing I'd like to hear from people who have criticism for Rafa this season, is where should this team be in the league now and of season? I think at their best they are a side capable of narrowly escaping relegation and Rafa appears to be on course for getting that. It's not pretty but I see it's probably best we can expect. When people say Rafa is making mistakes it makes me think where do these people think this team should be? top half? top 6? bang on mid table? - To have that sort of expectation seems very ambitious when you compare our players with some of the teams filling those spaces.

 

I think we could be about 6 points better off personally, or should be. I don’t know where that would have us in the table as I haven’t looked.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Again who has a problem with him being our manager? It’s a. nothing argument because as far as I can tell no one does. Tactics maybe, subs maybe, other things maybe, but Rafa as our manager? Where/who?

 

I have given you an example where someone literally referred to Rafa as a problem.

 

Where? I haven’t read it sorry.

[Hanshithispantz]

Other team needing a goal and putting more pressure on us? It’s easy to forget it’s a game of 2 sides when you’re looking at things through the perspective of your own team. We cannot just dictate how the game goes at will, nowhere close with our squad.

 

There’s been games where the opposition have just been bad and we’ve managed to stay in control.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

They're inexperienced, they're scared, their confidence is fragile because the pressure is immense, other teams are good enough to apply serious pressure when the momentum swings their way.

[steve_69]

The only thing I'd like to hear from people who have criticism for Rafa this season, is where should this team be in the league now and of season? I think at their best they are a side capable of narrowly escaping relegation and Rafa appears to be on course for getting that. It's not pretty but I see it's probably best we can expect. When people say Rafa is making mistakes it makes me think where do these people think this team should be? top half? top 6? bang on mid table? - To have that sort of expectation seems very ambitious when you compare our players with some of the teams filling those spaces.

 

I think we could be about 6 points better off personally, or should be. I don’t know where that would have us in the table as I haven’t looked.

 

We could be 7-10 points better off than we are now if it wasn't for individual errors - that's not something Rafa can control. If it wasn't for those errors we'd almost be safe by now. When the players take to the field they are the only people that can control their individual actions, concentration, application etc. It can be worked on in training and with psychologists but ultimately the bucks stops with the players.

 

And with regards to dropping deep, a lot of that comes down to confidence. If the players know they have given away leads multiple times their collective lack of confidence (and experience) will lead to a more cautious approach, which in turn gives the opposition more confidence and momentum in going forward. Again, this can be worked on in training and with club psychologists but ultimately when they're on the pitch it's down to the players.

 

Rafa has categorically said that he doesn't tell the players to start sitting deeper and given how honest he is, i think it's reasonable to believe him.

[TRon]

Again who has a problem with him being our manager? It’s a. nothing argument because as far as I can tell no one does. Tactics maybe, subs maybe, other things maybe, but Rafa as our manager? Where/who?

 

Tactics and subs are pretty much a big part of being a manager, if you consistently carp about them, like quite a few do on here, then you have a problem with the manager.

 

If that’s the criteria then no-one is happy with anyone at our club and has a problem with everyone.

 

He specifically said if anyone has a problem with Rafa BEIMG our manager...

 

I'm not talking about grumbling about the odd decision, like playing Joselu ahead of Mitro. I've spoke against that myself, but at the end of the day I tend to trust his judgement is better than mine as he has more information available than we do. I'm talking about those who whinge constantly about his tactics. Tactics are really what he does best, so if you don't like them, then you'd probably be happier with a different manager.

 

Have you asked those that ‘constantly’ whinge about his tactics if they’d be happier with a different manager rather than assume they probably would? There is a lot of myopia on here RE Rafa and it’s almost RAWKesque at times.

 

Again as far as I can tell I don’t see one person on here who is unhappy that Rafa is our manager or would want him replaced. I know I dared to suggest that myself last month, but I was drunk, pissed off and having a bit of a bad time. No excuse like.

 

In the main it’s healthy that he’s not this infallible manager and that we should be able to analyse his tactics and be critical. I myself feel the way we sometimes set up at home and the tactics we deploy against certain teams do not help us in such games at home and has contributed to some of our defeats and lack of wins.

 

Our home form will determine whether we stay up or not and I feel we haven’t done enough at home and could do far better, yes even with the team we have.

 

But hey, Rafa out!

 

It doesn't make sense. You want Rafa to be the manager, but you want him to change the tactics for which he's built a worldwide reputation.

 

There's nothing wrong with his tactics mate, the players do their best to implement them but they aren't that good so we've struggled this season. Playing different tactics isn't going to produce better results just because we are at home and we should be winning home games. This is essentially your argument.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond it being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

[themanupstairs]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Oh aye. I'm sure Rafa specifically sets out to win every game 1-0

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a shit team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

[r0cafella]

Link to the podcast please

 

iTunes

https://itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-game-live-in-newcastle-with-rafa-benitez/id191105605?i=1000401808676&mt=2

Cheers [emoji106]

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Again who has a problem with him being our manager? It’s a. nothing argument because as far as I can tell no one does. Tactics maybe, subs maybe, other things maybe, but Rafa as our manager? Where/who?

 

Tactics and subs are pretty much a big part of being a manager, if you consistently carp about them, like quite a few do on here, then you have a problem with the manager.

 

If that’s the criteria then no-one is happy with anyone at our club and has a problem with everyone.

 

He specifically said if anyone has a problem with Rafa BEIMG our manager...

 

I'm not talking about grumbling about the odd decision, like playing Joselu ahead of Mitro. I've spoke against that myself, but at the end of the day I tend to trust his judgement is better than mine as he has more information available than we do. I'm talking about those who whinge constantly about his tactics. Tactics are really what he does best, so if you don't like them, then you'd probably be happier with a different manager.

 

Have you asked those that ‘constantly’ whinge about his tactics if they’d be happier with a different manager rather than assume they probably would? There is a lot of myopia on here RE Rafa and it’s almost RAWKesque at times.

 

Again as far as I can tell I don’t see one person on here who is unhappy that Rafa is our manager or would want him replaced. I know I dared to suggest that myself last month, but I was drunk, p*ssed off and having a bit of a bad time. No excuse like.

 

In the main it’s healthy that he’s not this infallible manager and that we should be able to analyse his tactics and be critical. I myself feel the way we sometimes set up at home and the tactics we deploy against certain teams do not help us in such games at home and has contributed to some of our defeats and lack of wins.

 

Our home form will determine whether we stay up or not and I feel we haven’t done enough at home and could do far better, yes even with the team we have.

 

But hey, Rafa out!

 

It doesn't make sense. You want Rafa to be the manager, but you want him to change the tactics for which he's built a worldwide reputation.

 

There's nothing wrong with his tactics mate, the players do their best to implement them but they aren't that good so we've struggled this season. Playing different tactics isn't going to produce better results just because we are at home and we should be winning home games. This is essentially your argument.

 

So the answer is simply to just accept everything and keep our fingers crossed? We may as well close this thread if his tactics can’t be debated or even criticised.

 

Away from home I have no issue with his tactics in the main, at home I do, however. I believe and I’m only going to say this once more as it feels like I’m banging my head against a wall here, that at home, the way we are set up and some of the tactics (not every game, but in a few), hasn’t helped us pick up the required points or have contributed towards losses and draws.

 

If that’s me wanting to change the manager or not happy with him then...

[steve_69]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a s*** team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

Rafa has specifically talked about game management eg. wasting time, so Lascelles telling the keeper not to hurry getting rid of the ball is exactly right. It doesn't mean we've shut up shop, it's just a case of limiting the time the opposition has to get back into the game. All the top teams do it and so should we.

Telling the fullback to stay back for the whole of the second half is a defensive move but it's also a way of managing the game. If the fullback is getting rinsed every time by the attacker of course he should sit deeper. That doesn't mean he's instructing the whole team to be defensive, it could feasibly be that he's telling the players to attack in a way that doesn't leave us so vulnerable to a counter attack ie. through the middle, down the other flank etc.

By your reckoning, if Yedlin is getting bent over by their winger consistently we should just keep attacking down that channel regardless and fuck the consequences. That seems very naive!

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a s*** team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

Rafa has specifically talked about game management eg. wasting time, so Lascelles telling the keeper not to hurry getting rid of the ball is exactly right. It doesn't mean we've shut up shop, it's just a case of limiting the time the opposition has to get back into the game. All the top teams do it and so should we.

Telling the fullback to stay back for the whole of the second half is a defensive move but it's also a way of managing the game. If the fullback is getting rinsed every time by the attacker of course he should sit deeper. That doesn't mean he's instructing the whole team to be defensive, it could feasibly be that he's telling the players to attack in a way that doesn't leave us so vulnerable to a counter attack ie. through the middle, down the other flank etc.

By your reckoning, if Yedlin is getting bent over by their winger consistently we should just keep attacking down that channel regardless and f*** the consequences. That seems very naive!

 

 

The keeper has the ball, Swansea are retreating, we have a wide man in acres of space and the ‘keeper wants to and rightly so in my opinion to release the ball early to get an attack going, over comes Lascelles and basically tells him off. We hold onto the ball, Swansea get back into shape and the crowd get frustrated. I get in game manage,ent but on the other side of the coin would encourage the ‘keeeper to release that ball early to get an attack underway not be in game management too? It’s negative tactics that other former managers would be given stick for. If we are 2 nil up and into the final minutes yes, but this was with 20mor so to go and at 1-1 against Swansea at home.

 

I believe Rafa can over think things and over estimate the opposition or puts too much stock into them. It’s needed when we are facing a top team as the players need his help and guidance and instruction in such games, but against Swansea at home the players need to be let loose at times and given more freedom.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a shit team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

It's what the man himself has said, not me, so it's up to you if you choose to buy it or not. Everyone has different views on how football should be played but imo, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making out. I think the factors that I've listed are way more influential than you think and you can't just say 'we played this way before we scored, why aren't we now?'. I'd even go as far as saying that that example you've given about Swansea at home is actually an example of Rafa doing the right thing and slowing things down, as opposed to the suicidal (imo) idea of exposing ourselves at 1-1 when the opposition, a fellow relegation candidate are on top. You said yourself that you'd rather we lose 5 or 6 nil trying against Man City than lose 1-0 by sitting back. I just can't get my head around that sort of mentality in our current position.

 

Personally I'm happy with the way Rafa approaches matches at home and away, because at some point you need to be a realist and look at what you're wanting to achieve. Do you want boring, negative potential survival or exciting, attacking certain annihilation? That's how I see it, and I don't think you can have both at the moment. And that's not some anti-Keegan outlook either btw, I just think there's a line that needs to be crossed in order to play a certain way, and we're nowhere near that with the players we have.

[Kasper]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a shit team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

It's what the man himself has said, not me, so it's up to you if you choose to buy it or not. Everyone has different views on how football should be played but imo, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making out. I think the factors that I've listed are way more influential than you think and you can't just say 'we played this way before we scored, why aren't we now?'. I'd even go as far as saying that that example you've given about Swansea at home is actually an example of Rafa doing the right thing and slowing things down, as opposed to the suicidal (imo) idea of exposing ourselves at 1-1 when the opposition, a fellow relegation candidate are on top. You said yourself that you'd rather we lose 5 or 6 nil trying against Man City than lose 1-0 by sitting back. I just can't get my head around that sort of mentality in our current position.

 

Personally I'm happy with the way Rafa approaches matches at home and away, because at some point you need to be a realist and look at what you're wanting to achieve. Do you want boring, negative potential survival or exciting, attacking certain annihilation? That's how I see it, and I don't think you can have both at the moment. And that's not some anti-Keegan outlook either btw, I just think there's a line that needs to be crossed in order to play a certain way, and we're nowhere near that with the players we have.

 

Spot on that

[Guest Howaythetoon]

It's what the man himself has said, not me, so it's up to you if you choose to buy it or not. Everyone has different views on how football should be played but imo, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making out. I think the factors that I've listed are way more influential than you think and you can't just say 'we played this way before we scored, why aren't we now?'. I'd even go as far as saying that that example you've given about Swansea at home is actually an example of Rafa doing the right thing and slowing things down, as opposed to the suicidal (imo) idea of exposing ourselves at 1-1 when the opposition, a fellow relegation candidate are on top. You said yourself that you'd rather we lose 5 or 6 nil trying against Man City than lose 1-0 by sitting back. I just can't get my head around that sort of mentality in our current position.

 

Personally I'm happy with the way Rafa approaches matches at home and away, because at some point you need to be a realist and look at what you're wanting to achieve. Do you want boring, negative potential survival or exciting, attacking certain annihilation? That's how I see it, and I don't think you can have both at the moment. And that's not some anti-Keegan outlook either btw, I just think there's a line that needs to be crossed in order to play a certain way, and we're nowhere near that with the players we have.

 

On your last point I’m a let’s go out fighting type person, but that’s just me, if we are going down, go down all guns blazing etc.

 

One thing I will add is everything Rafa does, even if I don’t agree, I know he’s doing it for a reason, that he sees benefit in it. There is method to the madness if you like. With Pardew et all it was all hopeless and done with often zero thought.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I really don't think you realise the quality of the players that we have, like, HTT. It's a Championship team that's playing Premier League opposition week after week. How often in an FA Cup match (for example) do you expect the Championship team to beat even the lower table Premier League one?

[Kasper]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

[TRon]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a s*** team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

Rafa has specifically talked about game management eg. wasting time, so Lascelles telling the keeper not to hurry getting rid of the ball is exactly right. It doesn't mean we've shut up shop, it's just a case of limiting the time the opposition has to get back into the game. All the top teams do it and so should we.

Telling the fullback to stay back for the whole of the second half is a defensive move but it's also a way of managing the game. If the fullback is getting rinsed every time by the attacker of course he should sit deeper. That doesn't mean he's instructing the whole team to be defensive, it could feasibly be that he's telling the players to attack in a way that doesn't leave us so vulnerable to a counter attack ie. through the middle, down the other flank etc.

By your reckoning, if Yedlin is getting bent over by their winger consistently we should just keep attacking down that channel regardless and f*** the consequences. That seems very naive!

 

 

The keeper has the ball, Swansea are retreating, we have a wide man in acres of space and the ‘keeper wants to and rightly so in my opinion to release the ball early to get an attack going, over comes Lascelles and basically tells him off. We hold onto the ball, Swansea get back into shape and the crowd get frustrated. I get in game manage,ent but on the other side of the coin would encourage the ‘keeeper to release that ball early to get an attack underway not be in game management too? It’s negative tactics that other former managers would be given stick for. If we are 2 nil up and into the final minutes yes, but this was with 20mor so to go and at 1-1 against Swansea at home.

 

I believe Rafa can over think things and over estimate the opposition or puts too much stock into them. It’s needed when we are facing a top team as the players need his help and guidance and instruction in such games, but against Swansea at home the players need to be let loose at times and given more freedom.

 

They can't string two passes together when they have the ball, you can give them the freedom of the city, but they aren't going to score goals without the ball.

[Guest firetotheworks]

It's what the man himself has said, not me, so it's up to you if you choose to buy it or not. Everyone has different views on how football should be played but imo, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making out. I think the factors that I've listed are way more influential than you think and you can't just say 'we played this way before we scored, why aren't we now?'. I'd even go as far as saying that that example you've given about Swansea at home is actually an example of Rafa doing the right thing and slowing things down, as opposed to the suicidal (imo) idea of exposing ourselves at 1-1 when the opposition, a fellow relegation candidate are on top. You said yourself that you'd rather we lose 5 or 6 nil trying against Man City than lose 1-0 by sitting back. I just can't get my head around that sort of mentality in our current position.

 

Personally I'm happy with the way Rafa approaches matches at home and away, because at some point you need to be a realist and look at what you're wanting to achieve. Do you want boring, negative potential survival or exciting, attacking certain annihilation? That's how I see it, and I don't think you can have both at the moment. And that's not some anti-Keegan outlook either btw, I just think there's a line that needs to be crossed in order to play a certain way, and we're nowhere near that with the players we have.

 

On your last point I’m a let’s go out fighting type person, but that’s just me, if we are going down, go down all guns blazing etc.

 

One thing I will add is everything Rafa does, even if I don’t agree, I know he’s doing it for a reason, that he sees benefit in it. There is method to the madness if you like. With Pardew et all it was all hopeless and done with often zero thought.

 

...and not to mention (again ) that Pardew had a team full of very good internationals - the best squad in terms of quality that I've seen since the SBR. This is comfortably the worst quality Newcastle team I've seen in my time supporting the club, but as I said a couple of weeks ago, weirdly it's also probably the best organised with that.

 

But anyway. Battles and wars and all that. I'd rather we lose 1-0 by being anti-football so to speak and not go down fighting, than go down all guns blazing because we ignored goal difference.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a s*** team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

Rafa has specifically talked about game management eg. wasting time, so Lascelles telling the keeper not to hurry getting rid of the ball is exactly right. It doesn't mean we've shut up shop, it's just a case of limiting the time the opposition has to get back into the game. All the top teams do it and so should we.

Telling the fullback to stay back for the whole of the second half is a defensive move but it's also a way of managing the game. If the fullback is getting rinsed every time by the attacker of course he should sit deeper. That doesn't mean he's instructing the whole team to be defensive, it could feasibly be that he's telling the players to attack in a way that doesn't leave us so vulnerable to a counter attack ie. through the middle, down the other flank etc.

By your reckoning, if Yedlin is getting bent over by their winger consistently we should just keep attacking down that channel regardless and f*** the consequences. That seems very naive!

 

 

The keeper has the ball, Swansea are retreating, we have a wide man in acres of space and the ‘keeper wants to and rightly so in my opinion to release the ball early to get an attack going, over comes Lascelles and basically tells him off. We hold onto the ball, Swansea get back into shape and the crowd get frustrated. I get in game manage,ent but on the other side of the coin would encourage the ‘keeeper to release that ball early to get an attack underway not be in game management too? It’s negative tactics that other former managers would be given stick for. If we are 2 nil up and into the final minutes yes, but this was with 20mor so to go and at 1-1 against Swansea at home.

 

I believe Rafa can over think things and over estimate the opposition or puts too much stock into them. It’s needed when we are facing a top team as the players need his help and guidance and instruction in such games, but against Swansea at home the players need to be let loose at times and given more freedom.

 

They can't string two passes together when they have the ball, you can give them the freedom of the city, but they aren't going to score goals without the ball.

 

Bull s***, they did that perfectly fine in the first half. We aren’t going to score goals when we rarely have the ball as well...

[LV]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a s*** team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

It's what the man himself has said, not me, so it's up to you if you choose to buy it or not. Everyone has different views on how football should be played but imo, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making out. I think the factors that I've listed are way more influential than you think and you can't just say 'we played this way before we scored, why aren't we now?'. I'd even go as far as saying that that example you've given about Swansea at home is actually an example of Rafa doing the right thing and slowing things down, as opposed to the suicidal (imo) idea of exposing ourselves at 1-1 when the opposition, a fellow relegation candidate are on top. You said yourself that you'd rather we lose 5 or 6 nil trying against Man City than lose 1-0 by sitting back. I just can't get my head around that sort of mentality in our current position.

 

Personally I'm happy with the way Rafa approaches matches at home and away, because at some point you need to be a realist and look at what you're wanting to achieve. Do you want boring, negative potential survival or exciting, attacking certain annihilation? That's how I see it, and I don't think you can have both at the moment. And that's not some anti-Keegan outlook either btw, I just think there's a line that needs to be crossed in order to play a certain way, and we're nowhere near that with the players we have.

 

This. x infinity.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just fucking silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I really don't think you realise the quality of the players that we have, like, HTT. It's a Championship team that's playing Premier League opposition week after week. How often in an FA Cup match (for example) do you expect the Championship team to beat even the lower table Premier League one?

 

I dont overestimate the quality at all, it’s the worst team we’ve had since Ozzie. But the gap isn’t that big between ourselves and those around us and I’m sick of hearing about how s*** the team is as it’s now becoming the de facto excuse when we fail to beat Swansea at home, or Brighton, or Bournemouth...

[Wilson]

Listening to him on the podcast, hearing him talk makes me think everything will be ok

 

The bit about the salt and pepper shakers in the kitchen what a bloke man