Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[Guest firetotheworks]

I really don't think you realise the quality of the players that we have, like, HTT. It's a Championship team that's playing Premier League opposition week after week. How often in an FA Cup match (for example) do you expect the Championship team to beat even the lower table Premier League one?

 

I dont overestimate the quality at all, it’s the worst team we’ve had since Ozzie. But the gap isn’t that big between ourselves and those around us and I’m sick of hearing about how s*** the team is as it’s now becoming the de facto excuse when we fail to beat Swansea at home, or Brighton, or Bournemouth...

 

See, I would say that that's you overestimating our quality.

 

Tbf HTT, your de facto excuse of late is to bring up tactics and Rafa as being in some way part of the reason we're not getting the results we need, it's the same principle and I'm sure there are many that are sick of reading about Rafa's tactics being a problem. (not just from you obviously) As an excuse that's no different to player quality, lack of signings, player inexperience etc etc, they can all be lumped in together as contributing factors and each person chooses what they think the extent to how much each factor's contributed. Personally I think tactics and Rafa have played a very small role in the negative aspects of our results, and a huge role in the positive aspects of our results. That's just how I see it.

[steve_69]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just f***ing silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

I point to what i said before about individual mistakes. If those absolute clangers hadn't happened we'd be almost safe by now  - that in itself completely justifies Rafa's tactics as far as i'm concerned. We SHOULD be 7-10 points better off and that's not pie-in-the-sky hopeful bullshit, it's a fact. If we had 32-35 points right now would anyone be complaining about Rafa's tactics?

You have to take into account goal difference as well because there's a good chance it will come into play. If we got to the end of the season and went down due to inferior goal difference from going all out against the big teams, you'd be eating your words. We currently have a better goal difference than all but 2 of the teams in the bottom 10 so that shouldn't be a factor come the final game.

Yes, we could go and attack the better teams more and treat the games like FA cup ties but what are the odds on us beating them - 10-1, 15-1?  So out of every 10-15 times we play them we'll win. It would make for better entertainment but i'd rather we stayed in the PL playing conservatively, and give ourselves a chance of keeping Rafa, than seal our own fate early by being unrealistic.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I really don't think you realise the quality of the players that we have, like, HTT. It's a Championship team that's playing Premier League opposition week after week. How often in an FA Cup match (for example) do you expect the Championship team to beat even the lower table Premier League one?

 

I dont overestimate the quality at all, it’s the worst team we’ve had since Ozzie. But the gap isn’t that big between ourselves and those around us and I’m sick of hearing about how s*** the team is as it’s now becoming the de facto excuse when we fail to beat Swansea at home, or Brighton, or Bournemouth...

 

See, I would say that that's you overestimating our quality.

 

Tbf HTT, your de facto excuse of late is to bring up tactics and Rafa as being in some way part of the reason we're not getting the results we need. As an excuse that's no different to player quality, lack of signings, player inexperience etc etc, they can all be lumped in together as contributing factors and each person chooses what they think the extent to how that's contributed. Personally I think tactics and Rafa have played a very small role in the negative aspects of our results, and a huge role in the positive aspects of our results. That's just how I see it.

 

I don’t use our tactics as an excuse, but a reason, unlike the de facto excuse that our players are shit and therefore what do people expect. And it’s not like I’m here every game nit picking or criticising the tactics as I’m not and rarely criticise the players even, I’m just talking about this in general.

 

There are many reasons why we are where we are, number one being the squad simply lacks quality. Number 2 player mistakes, number 3 quality of opposition and yes number 4 or whatever number, tactics etc. I’m aware his tactics and methods have also helped us btw.

 

Anyway it will all boil down to thin margins as it always does and of course our home record which I feel could be better with a change in tactics and that’s why I’ve been critical and have been debating this particular issue.

 

I now expect someone to pipe up and ask what I’d do different or which superstar would I bring in from the bench to change things or why don’t I cough up the 300m to buy Ashley out.

 

What I don’t like seeing is people being brought down for offering a different insight and being critical of the tactics, as most of it has been put forward with good reasoning, in an articulate way and helped in the debate.

 

 

[Kasper]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just fucking silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

What's puzzling to me is that you see that and still think the opponent changing their game after going a goal down has nothing to do with it.

 

I'd also like to point out that we arent dropping deeper by default. We're just struggling to keep the ball under pressure which eventually leads to more ball for the opponent and us deeper on our zone. It's not like Rafa is saying "drop the line back 10 metres". Nothing happening on the pitch points to that.

[Ketsbaia]

I really don't think you realise the quality of the players that we have, like, HTT. It's a Championship team that's playing Premier League opposition week after week. How often in an FA Cup match (for example) do you expect the Championship team to beat even the lower table Premier League one?

 

I dont overestimate the quality at all, it’s the worst team we’ve had since Ozzie. But the gap isn’t that big between ourselves and those around us and I’m sick of hearing about how s*** the team is as it’s now becoming the de facto excuse when we fail to beat Swansea at home, or Brighton, or Bournemouth...

Yep. I still don't buy that we'd be cast adrift at the bottom without Rafa - I think quite a few managers would have us around 15th/16th right now, we're not the only squad full of Championship players down there.

[TRon]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just fucking silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

What's puzzling to me is that you see that and still think the opponent changing their game after going a goal down has nothing to do with it.

 

I'd also like to point out that we arent dropping deeper by default. We're just struggling to keep the ball under pressure which eventually leads to more ball for the opponent and us deeper on our zone. It's not like Rafa is saying "drop the line back 10 metres". Nothing happening on the pitch points to that.

 

Exactly. We are usually fine when both teams are playing conservatively, but obviously when we have taken the lead, the opposition is going to start pressing us higher up the pitch and throwing more men forward. This is when we struggle to keep possession, and it's why we often look shit after going ahead. If we had better footballers who could play their way out, we could murder the opposition on the counter, assuming we had forwards who could put the ball away. We don't have either, that's the problem.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just f***ing silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

I point to what i said before about individual mistakes. If those absolute clangers hadn't happened we'd be almost safe by now  - that in itself completely justifies Rafa's tactics as far as i'm concerned. We SHOULD be 7-10 points better off and that's not pie-in-the-sky hopeful bullshit, it's a fact. If we had 32-35 points right now would anyone be complaining about Rafa's tactics?

You have to take into account goal difference as well because there's a good chance it will come into play. If we got to the end of the season and went down due to inferior goal difference from going all out against the big teams, you'd be eating your words. We currently have a better goal difference than all but 2 of the teams in the bottom 10 so that shouldn't be a factor come the final game.

Yes, we could go and attack the better teams more and treat the games like FA cup ties but what are the odds on us beating them - 10-1, 15-1?  So out of every 10-15 times we play them we'll win. It would make for better entertainment but i'd rather we stayed in the PL playing conservatively, and give ourselves a chance of keeping Rafa, than seal our own fate early by being unrealistic.

 

You are not preaching anything I don’t know myself or don’t accept there. Player mistakes have cost us hugely and you are right goal difference could be key, but more key will be our home form.

 

By the way, Rafa did play Ritchie at LB once and he was responsible for several goals conceded as a subsequence of being played out of position. He got that one wrong.

 

I’m not demanding we go all out attack by the way and if that’s how you’ve read my thoughts you clearly can’t read or comprehend.

 

I just dont want to see us sit back in a withdrawn position against the then bottom side, at home, with 20 minutes to go, happy for a point. Swansea were in that first half the worst side I’ve seen at SJP in a few years, they offered nothing and were time wasting from the off. They had a corner in first half injury time and they even took their time taking it just to waste time.

 

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

[Kasper]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just fucking silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

What's puzzling to me is that you see that and still think the opponent changing their game after going a goal down has nothing to do with it.

 

I'd also like to point out that we arent dropping deeper by default. We're just struggling to keep the ball under pressure which eventually leads to more ball for the opponent and us deeper on our zone. It's not like Rafa is saying "drop the line back 10 metres". Nothing happening on the pitch points to that.

 

Exactly. We are usually fine when both teams are playing conservatively, but obviously when we have taken the lead, the opposition is going to start pressing us higher up the pitch and throwing more men forward. This is when we struggle to keep possession, and it's why we often look shit after going ahead. If we had better footballers who could play their way out, we could murder the opposition on the counter, assuming we had forwards who could put the ball away. We don't have either, that's the problem.

 

Yes, and lets not forget that we've created plenty of changes on the counter to win those games but find ways to mess up 2 vs 1 chances etc.

[Kasper]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

[Guest firetotheworks]

I really don't think you realise the quality of the players that we have, like, HTT. It's a Championship team that's playing Premier League opposition week after week. How often in an FA Cup match (for example) do you expect the Championship team to beat even the lower table Premier League one?

 

I dont overestimate the quality at all, it’s the worst team we’ve had since Ozzie. But the gap isn’t that big between ourselves and those around us and I’m sick of hearing about how s*** the team is as it’s now becoming the de facto excuse when we fail to beat Swansea at home, or Brighton, or Bournemouth...

Yep. I still don't buy that we'd be cast adrift at the bottom without Rafa - I think quite a few managers would have us around 15th/16th right now, we're not the only squad full of Championship players down there.

 

Genuinely think we'd be in pre-Silva Hull's position without Rafa tbh. Game of opinions and all that, thankfully we'll never know and we're in a relatively okay position considering.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just f***ing silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

What's puzzling to me is that you see that and still think the opponent changing their game after going a goal down has nothing to do with it.

 

I'd also like to point out that we arent dropping deeper by default. We're just struggling to keep the ball under pressure which eventually leads to more ball for the opponent and us deeper on our zone. It's not like Rafa is saying "drop the line back 10 metres". Nothing happening on the pitch points to that.

 

Cause and effect...

 

They changing things effect how we play. Us changing things effect how they play. It’s a two way thing.

 

As soon as we went a goal up we started to slowly change our whole approach to the proceeding remaining time left in the game, dropping deeper, looking long (with Dwight fucking Gayle up top I add!) and all that does is make it even easier for the opposition to effect things.

 

I think Rafa can over manage the game in game too much during a game and I for one would just like us to play, for once, the same way and keep going. Build on what you have not try and preserve what you have. We are not good enough to do that ironically which surprises me with Rafa as he obviously must know. We are not good enough to go and hammer a team, but that’s not what I’m asking for anyway, I just want to see us plat as we did in the first half against Swansea for example in the second half or at least try to. You never know, it might bring reward...

[steve_69]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just f***ing silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

I point to what i said before about individual mistakes. If those absolute clangers hadn't happened we'd be almost safe by now  - that in itself completely justifies Rafa's tactics as far as i'm concerned. We SHOULD be 7-10 points better off and that's not pie-in-the-sky hopeful bullshit, it's a fact. If we had 32-35 points right now would anyone be complaining about Rafa's tactics?

You have to take into account goal difference as well because there's a good chance it will come into play. If we got to the end of the season and went down due to inferior goal difference from going all out against the big teams, you'd be eating your words. We currently have a better goal difference than all but 2 of the teams in the bottom 10 so that shouldn't be a factor come the final game.

Yes, we could go and attack the better teams more and treat the games like FA cup ties but what are the odds on us beating them - 10-1, 15-1?  So out of every 10-15 times we play them we'll win. It would make for better entertainment but i'd rather we stayed in the PL playing conservatively, and give ourselves a chance of keeping Rafa, than seal our own fate early by being unrealistic.

 

You are not preaching anything I don’t know myself or don’t accept there. Player mistakes have cost us hugely and you are right goal difference could be key, but more key will be our home form.

 

By the way, Rafa did play Ritchie at LB once and he was responsible for several goals conceded as a subsequence of being played out of position. He got that one wrong.

 

I’m not demanding we go all out attack by the way and if that’s how you’ve read my thoughts you clearly can’t read or comprehend.

 

I just dont want to see us sit back in a withdrawn position against the then bottom side, at home, with 20 minutes to go, happy for a point. Swansea were in that first half the worst side I’ve seen at SJP in a few years, they offered nothing and were time wasting from the off. They had a corner in first half injury time and they even took their time taking it just to waste time.

 

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

There's a big difference between being happy with a point and accepting that's probably all you're going to get. From what i can remember of the game we were in the ascendancy from the off and Swansea looked completely bereft of ideas. Then they took a surprise lead.

Once we got back into the game there's no way Rafa told the players to settle for a point, absolutely no way. But as a manager, if you're looking at the players on 75-80 minutes and can see they're knackered (which is what I assume has happened on a number of occasions) it makes more sense to take a point than tell them to get up the pitch and risk being hit on the counter attack.

Getting beaten by the then bottom team at home would have done a lot more damage to moral, confidence and fan mood than coming back from 0-1 down to draw 1-1. 

 

And, having seen the run Swansea have gone on since our result against them, perhaps we're all looking back on that game with slightly rose-tinted specs?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

[Kasper]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

 

To say Rafa &/or the team came out second half and thought a point would be good is both made up and stupid.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Seems like some people would have you believe Rafa is telling the players to start misplacing easy passes, taking terrible touches and losing 50-50 balls.  And somehow it's supposed to be our defensive tactic.

 

That’s just f***ing silly. Of course he’s not, but if the tactics are to concede possession, sit deeper and look to just stay in the game, what that does is make it difficult to get on the ball, to get in the game and for players to express themselves.

 

If the team can string passes together, cause problems and have possession fine and well one minute and go to the exact opposite the next...

 

I point to what i said before about individual mistakes. If those absolute clangers hadn't happened we'd be almost safe by now  - that in itself completely justifies Rafa's tactics as far as i'm concerned. We SHOULD be 7-10 points better off and that's not pie-in-the-sky hopeful bullshit, it's a fact. If we had 32-35 points right now would anyone be complaining about Rafa's tactics?

You have to take into account goal difference as well because there's a good chance it will come into play. If we got to the end of the season and went down due to inferior goal difference from going all out against the big teams, you'd be eating your words. We currently have a better goal difference than all but 2 of the teams in the bottom 10 so that shouldn't be a factor come the final game.

Yes, we could go and attack the better teams more and treat the games like FA cup ties but what are the odds on us beating them - 10-1, 15-1?  So out of every 10-15 times we play them we'll win. It would make for better entertainment but i'd rather we stayed in the PL playing conservatively, and give ourselves a chance of keeping Rafa, than seal our own fate early by being unrealistic.

 

You are not preaching anything I don’t know myself or don’t accept there. Player mistakes have cost us hugely and you are right goal difference could be key, but more key will be our home form.

 

By the way, Rafa did play Ritchie at LB once and he was responsible for several goals conceded as a subsequence of being played out of position. He got that one wrong.

 

I’m not demanding we go all out attack by the way and if that’s how you’ve read my thoughts you clearly can’t read or comprehend.

 

I just dont want to see us sit back in a withdrawn position against the then bottom side, at home, with 20 minutes to go, happy for a point. Swansea were in that first half the worst side I’ve seen at SJP in a few years, they offered nothing and were time wasting from the off. They had a corner in first half injury time and they even took their time taking it just to waste time.

 

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

There's a big difference between being happy with a point and accepting that's probably all you're going to get. From what i can remember of the game we were in the ascendancy from the off and Swansea looked completely bereft of ideas. Then they took a surprise lead.

Once we got back into the game there's no way Rafa told the players to settle for a point, absolutely no way. But as a manager, if you're looking at the players on 75-80 minutes and can see they're knackered (which is what I assume has happened on a number of occasions) it makes more sense to take a point than tell them to get up the pitch and risk being hit on the counter attack.

Getting beaten by the then bottom team at home would have done a lot more damage to moral, confidence and fan mood than coming back from 0-1 down to draw 1-1. 

 

And, having seen the run Swansea have gone on since our result against them, perhaps we're all looking back on that game with slightly rose-tinted specs?

 

Stop making excuses man. We were happy with a point make no mistake about that. There was no surprise by their lead either, although therewas only one team in it during the first half and that was us. Second half complete reversal. Also their run has coincided with the appointment of a new manager... let’s face it that was a piss poor result and performance. Shit players, tiredness, no excuse given how dominant we were in the first half and them here for a point at best. Again complete opposite second half. We pressed less, we went deeper, we started to launch it long and when they did score we thought fuck, we better get going again, and we did, then we killed the game to get the point as evidenced by Rafa telling full-backs to stay back, the keeper being told to hang onto the ball and the final 10 being a nothing affair. They could have nicked it mind going looking for the winner...

[Guest firetotheworks]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

 

Against Swansea? They were the ones that went 1-0 up in the second half, but would have taken a 1-0 loss before half time? You're making it hard not to not want to bring down this 'different insight' like. It feels a bit 'alternative facts' ish

[Guest Howaythetoon]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

 

To say Rafa &/or the team came out second half and thought a point would be good is both made up and stupid.

 

The proof is in the pudding. We only started going for it when they scored and when we equalised we stopped. Happy with a point. 50k people can’t be wrong who were there. Open your eyes and don’t be so blind. Stop defending everything and looking for constant excuses. It’s OK to highlight a game that went wrong and look at the tactics, set up and approach as a reason etc. It’s not like we are nailing Rafa to the fucking cross or something

[Guest Howaythetoon]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

 

Against Swansea? They were the ones that went 1-0 up in the second half, but would have taken a 1-0 loss before half time? You're making it hard not to not want to bring down this 'different insight' like. It feels a bit 'alternative facts' ish

 

 

I’m going off how they approached the first half. Constant time wasting. Howay Man, they get a corner in added on time and take an age over taking it, fearful we may somehow break away and score. That’s how negative they ere and just how much they wanted the game over and done with. Ok happy with a 1-0 loss maybe overstepping things, but definately happy with a draw. Second have they grew in confidence because we allowed them back into it. I remember the look of disbelieve when they took the lead and even their fans couldn’t believe it. First half again only one winner and that was us. Had we played the same way or tried to, we would have won comfortably and be in a better position today than we currently are where we could be in the bottom 3 Sunday.

[Kasper]

We were happy with a point make no mistake about that.

 

We were not. Next...

 

We pressed less,

 

We didn't. We started exactly the same but they didnt make it easy for us to win the ball like 1st half. After a while we toned it down as it wasnt working anymore.

 

we went deeper,

We didnt. We were pushed deeper because they got pass our press unlike first half. More balls to the wings and infront of the defense results in your defense dropping deeper.

 

 

we started to launch it long

 

Yes because unlike the first half we didn't win the ball back in midfield. We won it back in deep in our own zone and faced immediate pressure.

 

[Kasper]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

 

To say Rafa &/or the team came out second half and thought a point would be good is both made up and stupid.

 

The proof is in the pudding. We only started going for it when they scored and when we equalised we stopped. Happy with a point. 50k people can’t be wrong who were there. Open your eyes and don’t be so blind. Stop defending everything and looking for constant excuses. It’s OK to highlight a game that went wrong and look at the tactics, set up and approach as a reason etc. It’s not like we are nailing Rafa to the fucking cross or something

 

Jesus christ. So we started playing badly because of Rafa's tactics. And then we started playing well again because of Rafa's tactics. Both had nothing to do with our opponents...

 

So from Swansea's point of view, why didnt they just keep playing the same way they did just before the scored after going 1-0 up? Wouldnt that have been a certain win for them by your logic? Why did they let us back in the game? So stupid from them isnt it.

[TRon]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

 

To say Rafa &/or the team came out second half and thought a point would be good is both made up and stupid.

 

The proof is in the pudding. We only started going for it when they scored and when we equalised we stopped. Happy with a point. 50k people can’t be wrong who were there. Open your eyes and don’t be so blind. Stop defending everything and looking for constant excuses. It’s OK to highlight a game that went wrong and look at the tactics, set up and approach as a reason etc. It’s not like we are nailing Rafa to the fucking cross or something

 

50k at the ground can't be wrong, but 25k who start making a racket can be. If you're one of those who think the crowd numpties know better than a world class manager, then this debate is pointless.

[mrmojorisin75]

Interesting that he made it very clear that by managing the game at 1-0 he means getting the second goal and not inviting pressure.

 

So why do the players simply drop into some kind of shell and treat the ball as if it’s a grenade? If that’s not the intention then something isn’t working because they do it quite often and while you could argue it’s because they aren’t good enough, well they have been good enough to take a lead and to play very well against the other team. First half against a Palace for example, Swansea at home etc.

 

Pressure, mentality, crowd apprehension carrying to the pitch, the opposition upping their attacks, the players knowing we don't have a good striker, inexperience, being young. There are loads of possibilities beyond in being an oversight or not putting everything into combating it. Have a listen to the podcast though.

 

I’m listening to it and it’s great so far and so is Rafa.

 

I understand all of those points by the way, but we are definately set up at times at home to get a goal and see the game out and it has hurt us once or twice. You cannot just ascribe all those things to how we played second half away to Palace for example or at home to Swansea when we showed plenty of quality during the first half. We went from playing good football, causing problems, being in the game, to simply being afraid of the ball, dropping deep and basically hoping to see out the draw or to nick a goal. Not when it is becoming a common theme and if this isn’t the tactic then the players are simply not responding to Rafa’s tactics during some second half’s.

 

At home to Swansea, Lascelles was telling the keeper off for trying to release an early ball and Rafa was clearly seen telling the full-back on his side basically not to get beyond the half-way line.

 

I believe at home we have a way of playing that we try and get a lead and then try to see the game out against the lesser sides. Against the better teams it’s the opposite, we try and stay in the game and hope not to lose or to nick a goal.

 

For once I’d like us just to keep playing and going for it which we failed to do at home to Swansea. Again had we went at them the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably.

 

I know you’re gonna come back and say they changed their tactics, pressure got to the players etc. But I’m not buying that not when the manager is discouraging the full back from getting forward and the Captain was bollocking team mates for wanting to release the ball early. This at 1-1 with Swansea on top.

 

All it does is frustrate home fans, entire pressure and gives the opposition the upper hand. It’s no coincidence our home record is poor and historically even when we have a s*** team, we always do better at home when we attack the opposition and look to win the game and not see it out.

 

Ironically we are good at neither so tactically it’s all a bit bizarre and kind of baffling.

 

It's what the man himself has said, not me, so it's up to you if you choose to buy it or not. Everyone has different views on how football should be played but imo, it's nowhere near as simple as you're making out. I think the factors that I've listed are way more influential than you think and you can't just say 'we played this way before we scored, why aren't we now?'. I'd even go as far as saying that that example you've given about Swansea at home is actually an example of Rafa doing the right thing and slowing things down, as opposed to the suicidal (imo) idea of exposing ourselves at 1-1 when the opposition, a fellow relegation candidate are on top. You said yourself that you'd rather we lose 5 or 6 nil trying against Man City than lose 1-0 by sitting back. I just can't get my head around that sort of mentality in our current position.

 

Personally I'm happy with the way Rafa approaches matches at home and away, because at some point you need to be a realist and look at what you're wanting to achieve. Do you want boring, negative potential survival or exciting, attacking certain annihilation? That's how I see it, and I don't think you can have both at the moment. And that's not some anti-Keegan outlook either btw, I just think there's a line that needs to be crossed in order to play a certain way, and we're nowhere near that with the players we have.

 

This. x infinity.

[summerof69]

the little dig at the chelsea fans

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Anyway I’m out, just going around in circles. Yey I hear thee cry...

[Guest firetotheworks]

They would have been happy with a 1-0 loss. Second half we changed completely, surrender the game to them, and simply just give up on trying to win the game, happy with a point. It’s those tactics that I’m critical off, it’s that kind of game plan I’m critical of and it’s that kind of ‘result’ at home which has t exactly been a one off, could well see us down come the end of the season.

 

No matter how many times you post this same made up crap it doesnt magically turn to a truth.

 

It’s not made up, it’s the case or was.

 

Against Swansea? They were the ones that went 1-0 up in the second half, but would have taken a 1-0 loss before half time? You're making it hard not to not want to bring down this 'different insight' like. It feels a bit 'alternative facts' ish

 

 

I’m going off how they approached the first half. Constant time wasting. Howay Man, they get a corner in added on time and take an age over taking it, fearful we may somehow break away and score. That’s how negative they ere and just how much they wanted the game over and done with. Ok happy with a 1-0 loss maybe overstepping things, but definately happy with a draw. Second have they grew in confidence because we allowed them back into it. I remember the look of disbelieve when they took the lead and even their fans couldn’t believe it. First half again only one winner and that was us. Had we played the same way or tried to, we would have won comfortably and be in a better position today than we currently are where we could be in the bottom 3 Sunday.

 

The game should have been wrapped up at half time, but I didn't think it was a tactical problem. Gayle missed a few sitters and had a goal disallowed for offside. Second half they weren't as shit but that doesn't mean that was because we let them, it takes two to tango and all that. Look at Burnley as well, was the problem there tactical, or because Joselu can't finish?