Martin Dúbravka

[madras]

2 minutes ago, nufc123 said:

Martinez is a very good keeper to be fair.

He is......looked suspect yesterday mind ya.

[Geordie Ahmed]

16 minutes ago, ilikenewcastle said:

I don't agree that Ederson is better unless you place too much value on a keeper's ability to kick a ball (which most people do tbf).

Yeah, distribution Ederson is on another planet to Pope but every other aspect Pope is ahead of him 

 

 

[Menace]

There's never a timeline where Pope is better than Ederson like 

[The College Dropout]

25 minutes ago, BullyDogs said:

Come on man Ederson is better than pope too and so too is Emi Martinez and as much as we hate to admit it theres a couple of English keepers ahead of him who get picked in the squad

Nah Ederson’s shot stopping is not good. Man City defend with the ball and he contributes to that. But at Newcastle he will have to make saves and he’s a league below Pope in that regard. This is backed up statistically.  
 

Villa fans were talking about upgrading Martinez not too long ago. He’s risen his level. I think him and Pope are level but I’ll give it to you. Allison and Martinez then. 
 

Pickford is ahead of Pope for England. Would you have Pickford ahead of Pope for Newcastle. Pickford is better with his feet and can do the sweeping. As a shot stopper he’s statistically inferior and he doesn’t command his box as well as Pope. We get some stuff better, get some stuff worse.  
 

Pope can be improved. But it won’t be easy. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah Ederson’s shot stopping is not good. Man City defend with the ball and he contributes to that. But at Newcastle he will have to make saves and he’s a league below Pope in that regard. This is backed up statistically.  
 

Villa fans were talking about upgrading Martinez not too long ago. He’s risen his level. I think him and Pope are level but I’ll give it to you. Allison and Martinez then. 
 

Pickford is ahead of Pope for England. Would you have Pickford ahead of Pope for Newcastle. Pickford is better with his feet and can do the sweeping. As a shot stopper he’s statistically inferior and he doesn’t command his box as well as Pope. We get some stuff better, get some stuff worse.  
 

Pope can be improved. But it won’t be easy. 

I’d have Pickford ahead of Pope for England

[Guest reefatoon]

4 hours ago, Krabbe2 said:

This season is lost anyway. Doesn't matter if we're 10 or 13.

[TRon]

2 hours ago, BullyDogs said:

Come on man Ederson is better than pope too and so too is Emi Martinez and as much as we hate to admit it theres a couple of English keepers ahead of him who get picked in the squad

 

Martinez is the best keeper in the world. No one can compete with Villa on that front, we have to be better elsewhere.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’d have Pickford ahead of Pope for England

We are talking about Newcastle.  

[Ronaldo]

32 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Martinez is the best keeper in the world. No one can compete with Villa on that front, we have to be better elsewhere.

What? 

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, Menace said:

There's never a timeline where Pope is better than Ederson like 

Not saying he’s a better player. But he’s a better fit for us. Ederson is not an elite shot stopper. 

[madras]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Not saying he’s a better player. But he’s a better fit for us. Ederson is not an elite shot stopper. 

True but how would we benefit from a better distributor?

 

Don't know myself bit it's a discussion.

[TheBrownBottle]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We are talking about Newcastle.  

I think Pickford is a better goalkeeper, and the only reason Pope would play ahead of him here is the obvious - I doubt we’d go for him (for obvious reasons) and I doubt he’d sign (for obvious reasons). 

[madras]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I think Pickford is a better goalkeeper, and the only reason Pope would play ahead of him here is the obvious - I doubt we’d go for him (for obvious reasons) and I doubt he’d sign (for obvious reasons). 

Pickford is better for England. In the league Pope has been the better keeper for at least 2yrs. I can understand an international manager having faith in someone who constantly performs for them though

 

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by madras

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, madras said:

Pickford is better for England. In the league Pope has been the better keeper for at least 2yrs. I can understand an international manager having faith in someone who constantly perform ls for them though

I still think that Pickford being handled by our current management / coaches could be significantly better than Pope.  But it’s never going to happen, so we’ll never know  

[madras]

Also brings up the idea of those who aren't as good for their countries as they are for their clubs. There were many times I saw Beardsley playbit safe for England when he wouldn't have domestically even though we were playing Israel or Bulgaria who weren't as good as what they were facing week in week out.

 

See also Ian Wright, Le Tissier etc.....loads from the 70s.

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, madras said:

True but how would we benefit from a better distributor?

 

Don't know myself bit it's a discussion.

We aren’t a possession based side. So it will help. But.. how much?

 

7 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I think Pickford is a better goalkeeper, and the only reason Pope would play ahead of him here is the obvious - I doubt we’d go for him (for obvious reasons) and I doubt he’d sign (for obvious reasons). 

Fair enough. I disagree. Pickford earned the England spot years ago rather than recent ability.  Pope is a better shot stopper and claims more crosses statistically. And he’s done this over a long period of time. Goalkeepers don’t move clubs and suddenly become better shot stoppers or come and claim crosses. 

[madras]

8 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We aren’t a possession based side. So it will help. But.. how much?

 

Fair enough. I disagree. Pickford earned the England spot years ago rather than recent ability.  Pope is a better shot stopper and claims more crosses statistically. And he’s done this over a long period of time. Goalkeepers don’t move clubs and suddenly become better shot stoppers or come and claim crosses. 

We aren't but I'm sure Howe has said we need to become one, also as you get better you get more possession naturally as teams drop off you particularly at home.

[The College Dropout]

14 minutes ago, madras said:

We aren't but I'm sure Howe has said we need to become one, also as you get better you get more possession naturally as teams drop off you particularly at home.

We don’t have the players for it imo.  Especially not now.  Even Tonali’s not a passer like that.  His game is more physical.  

[mighty__mag]

I like Neto at Bournemouth. 

[madras]

20 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We don’t have the players for it imo.  Especially not now.  Even Tonali’s not a passer like that.  His game is more physical.  

Bruno's is when there's more to pass to. Tonali likes to keep the ball moving and rotating positionally, we do that wide to start with, through the middle is the issue and that opens everything.

[NUFC91]

11 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Nah Ederson’s shot stopping is not good. Man City defend with the ball and he contributes to that. But at Newcastle he will have to make saves and he’s a league below Pope in that regard. This is backed up statistically.  
 

Villa fans were talking about upgrading Martinez not too long ago. He’s risen his level. I think him and Pope are level but I’ll give it to you. Allison and Martinez then. 
 

Pickford is ahead of Pope for England. Would you have Pickford ahead of Pope for Newcastle. Pickford is better with his feet and can do the sweeping. As a shot stopper he’s statistically inferior and he doesn’t command his box as well as Pope. We get some stuff better, get some stuff worse.  
 

Pope can be improved. But it won’t be easy. 

 

Edersons shot stopping is excellent, he makes odd mistake like everyone else, don't forget Pope made fair share of howlers too.

 

Pope makes more saves because we aren't as good as Man City.

 

You cannot be serious mind saying you'd rather Pope than Ederson. That's like saying you would rather Almiron than Saka because he worls back more and needed more in our team

[The College Dropout]

2 hours ago, NUFC91 said:

 

Edersons shot stopping is excellent, he makes odd mistake like everyone else, don't forget Pope made fair share of howlers too.

 

Pope makes more saves because we aren't as good as Man City.

 

You cannot be serious mind saying you'd rather Pope than Ederson. That's like saying you would rather Almiron than Saka because he worls back more and needed more in our team

It's not excellent. Any statistics does not back it up. He's also not great from crosses. Again this is borne out of the statistics. It's not that Pope just makes more saves, he has a consistently higher save % and consistently outperforms his Xg against overall and Xg against from big chances.

 

https://theathletic.com/4236524/2023/02/22/man-city-goals-conceded-ederson/?redirected=1&source=googlesearch&access_token=8463639

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65309985

 

Ederson is fantastic and a better goalkeeper than Pope for many elite sides that dominate possession. But for a team like ours whose goalkeeper has to make a lot of saves, deals with a lot of crosses. I'd take Pope.

 

In nearly every statistical measure of a winger, Saka outperforms Almiron. The eye test will back that up. That is simply not the case for Pope vs Ederson. Some of this isn't just a matter of my opinion but also backed up statistically over many seasons.

 

We saw this when we first signed Pope. "No better than Dubravka" many said. Apart from using his feet to pass, he's better than Dubravka at everything - considerably. To find a keeper that is better than Pope at nearly everything - is going to be hard. Unless we change our style of play considerably and really need a passer who will barely need to make a save (Ederson).

[Fezzle]

The way we play shot stopping trumps distribution mind, we concede far too many chances

[buzza]

Aye, Dubs looked very rusty yesterday. the second goal was for me the worst one, he knows that ball is coming across the area or going back towards the penalty spot (no angle for inside post), should have got a leg to it.

[NUFC91]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

It's not excellent. Any statistics does not back it up. He's also not great from crosses. Again this is borne out of the statistics. It's not that Pope just makes more saves, he has a consistently higher save % and consistently outperforms his Xg against overall and Xg against from big chances.

 

https://theathletic.com/4236524/2023/02/22/man-city-goals-conceded-ederson/?redirected=1&source=googlesearch&access_token=8463639

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65309985

 

Ederson is fantastic and a better goalkeeper than Pope for many elite sides that dominate possession. But for a team like ours whose goalkeeper has to make a lot of saves, deals with a lot of crosses. I'd take Pope.

 

In nearly every statistical measure of a winger, Saka outperforms Almiron. The eye test will back that up. That is simply not the case for Pope vs Ederson. Some of this isn't just a matter of my opinion but also backed up statistically over many seasons.

 

We saw this when we first signed Pope. "No better than Dubravka" many said. Apart from using his feet to pass, he's better than Dubravka at everything - considerably. To find a keeper that is better than Pope at nearly everything - is going to be hard. Unless we change our style of play considerably and really need a passer who will barely need to make a save (Ederson).

 

My point is regardless of stats every club in world bar Liverpool would swap their keeper for Ederson