Sean Longstaff

[Heron]

9 hours ago, Ronaldo said:

Like there’s even a Tonali versus Longstaff debate man. Tonali is literally one of Italy’s best players. Longstaff is Longstaff. The radgies and lazy media like him, granted.

There is a debate because the results suggest we perform better with Longstaff starting.

 

As for the last sentence - what a weird remark.

 

Tonali is undoubtedly a better player but teams win games not individuals. Until we find the right balance of how to utilise Tonali and as a team we're maximising his potential then it is absolutely fair that folk ask what is going to continue to get us results.

 

Why would anyone dislike Sean Longstaff as a Newcastle supporter? A Geordie playing his heart our for his home town side. He may not be as good as Tonali but he is as inoffensive as can be. Peculiar crack.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Heron

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don’t dislike him, I posted earlier about how much I respect lots of things about him. But Tonali is 10 times the player and we look significantly better when he’s in. 

[Heron]

7 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I don’t dislike him, I posted earlier about how much I respect lots of things about him. But Tonali is 10 times the player and we look significantly better when he’s in. 

That's fair - we have played better in recent games, undoubtedly. However, we also haven't got results. So the tweet is valid in that it is asking the question whether as a team we're better off with Longstaff in the side based on how we play. Folk rushing to rubbish it is just bizarre. I don't really care who plays for Newcastle as long they're morally alreet and we're winning games. Folk rubbishing it without making any discussion about it are (in my eyes) saying the best players must play over Newcastle winning games - to some degree.

 

What I am saying is, we will be better once we find a system or way of playing or simply Tonali settles better into the existing system. But at present Longstaff isn't the massive problem folk perhaps make out.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Heron

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I just can’t see any reason that Longstaff playing would make us win more. Tonali is better at everything. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Dr Jinx]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I just can’t see any reason that Longstaff playing would make us win more. Tonali is better at everything. 

 

 

 

 

There is something Longstaff does that allows Bruno to be more effective. That's the link.. get Tonali doing that and we'll improve no end.

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, Dr Jinx said:

 

There is something Longstaff does that allows Bruno to be more effective. That's the link.. get Tonali doing that and we'll improve no end.

Not sure we have seen it for a while between Longstaff and Bruno mind.

[TheBrownBottle]

9 hours ago, Ronaldo said:

Like there’s even a Tonali versus Longstaff debate man. Tonali is literally one of Italy’s best players. Longstaff is Longstaff. The radgies and lazy media like him, granted.

That isn’t as impressive a feat as it would have been in, say 1994 or 2004.  Being one of Italy’s best players in 2024 …

 

Jury is very much out on Tonali for me.  Longstaff is a solid but bog standard PL midfielder.  Tonali is a very, very expensive midfielder who is really owes us a top season. 

[TheBrownBottle]

10 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I just can’t see any reason that Longstaff playing would make us win more. Tonali is better at everything. 

 

 

 

Apart from the bit when we were winning more 

[Heron]

17 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I just can’t see any reason that Longstaff playing would make us win more. Tonali is better at everything. 

 

 

 

According to Fotmob (which I am not sure how accurate it is as a data source):

 

Pass Accuracy:

SL 109 (86.5%)

ST 93 (81.6%)

 

Accurate Long Balls:

SL 2 (66.7%)

ST 1 (14.3%)

 

Tackles Won:

SL 9 (81.8%)

ST 5 (71.4%)

 

There are other stats which are in Tonali's favour - as you'd expect. Chance creation, shots on target for example.

 

However, perhaps ball retention is something Howe is looking at? Again - when watching - Tonali is clearly a better all rounder, but how they both link in with those around them and what results we get from it is more important than starting the best player.

 

For what it's worth - as per the Howe discussion - this conversation wouldn't be being had, had Gordon, Isak and even Lonfstaff taken their chances in the last 3. As we'd be third top.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Heron

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

According to Fotmob (which I am not sure how accurate it is as a data source):

 

Pass Accuracy:

SL 109 (86.5%)

ST 93 (81.6%)

 

Accurate Long Balls:

SL 2 (66.7%)

ST 1 (14.3%)

 

Tackles Won:

SL 9 (81.8%)

ST 5 (71.4%)

 

There are other stats which are in Tonali's favour - as you'd expect. Chance creation, shots on target for example.

 

However, perhaps ball retention is something Howe is looking at? Again - when watching Tonali is clearly a better all rounder, but how they both link in with those around them and what results we get from it is more important than starting the best player.

 

For what it's worth - as per the Howe discussion - this conversation wouldn't be being had, had Gordon, Isak and even Lonfstaff taken their chances in the last 3. As we'd be third top.

 

 

 

The pass stats are misleading mind, not sure I’ve ever seen Longstaff try a creative pass. It’s usually sideways and backwards (not a criticism as it’s probably what he’s asked to do).

[AyeDubbleYoo]

FWIW I’m fairly sure this conversation is not actually being had. There’s a reason one of our big signings was a Longstaff replacement. 

[Heron]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

The pass stats are misleading mind, not sure I’ve ever seen Longstaff try a creative pass. It’s usually sideways and backwards (not a criticism as it’s probably what he’s asked to do).

With all due respect this is always an excuse that is immediately made.

 

We keep possession from a passing perspective with Longstaff in the side, based on data. That was the point I was making (which based on the data is accurate).

 

Chances created - Tonali is better - as outlined.

 

Folk seem to rush to Tonali's defence claiming "misleading data" because it suits their narrative that Tonali is better and Longstaff is the devil in disguise. I just don't get it, personally.

[Heron]

5 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

FWIW I’m fairly sure this conversation is not actually being had. There’s a reason one of our big signings was a Longstaff replacement. 

Howe will be having conversation about this all the time you'd think - surely? It's his job to pick a team that wins, not a one that has the best players in.

 

Undoubtedly, he will expect we're better with Tonali (in time). I think we all do.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by Heron

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, Heron said:

Howe will be having conversation about this all the time you'd think - surely. It's his job to pick a team that wins, not a one that has the best players in.

But haven’t we won more this season with Tonali on the pitch? I’m pretty sure 2 of our 3 wins came having subbed Tonali on for Longstaff and us then going on to win the game (Spurs and Wolves).

[AyeDubbleYoo]

11 minutes ago, Heron said:

Howe will be having conversation about this all the time you'd think - surely? It's his job to pick a team that wins, not a one that has the best players in.

 

Undoubtedly, he will expect we're better with Tonali (in time). I think we all do.

 

 

 

Yeah but it would be crazy to change the midfield so soon, especially to take out a guy who’s just started playing for us basically. 

 

I’d be very disappointed if he decides we will win more with Longstaff in instead of Tonali. That would be concerning. 

[Heron]

Longstaff Starts - Not subbed

Southampton (W)

Wimbledon (W)

 

Longstaff Starts - Subbed

Bournemouth (D) (Losing 1 -0, Willock replaces)

Tottenham (W) (Drawing 1-1, Tonali replaces)

Wolves (W) (Losing 1-0, Tonali replaces)

 

Tonali Starts - Subbed

Nottingham Forest (D) (1-1, Longstaff replaces, Newcastle win the game on pens - Longstaff scores his)

Man City (D) (1-1, Longstaff replaces)

Everton (D) (0-0, Longstaff replaces)

 

Longstaff doesn't feature

Fulham (L)

 

Longstaff Subbed In

Brighton (L) (0-1, Longstaff replaces Gordon)

 

 

[Heron]

6 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Yeah but it would be crazy to change the midfield so soon, especially to take out a guy who’s just started playing for us basically. 

 

I’d be very disappointed if he decides we will win more with Longstaff in instead of Tonali. That would be concerning. 

If we do win more with Lonfstaff in - what is concerning about it? We're here to win games by fielding the best team. Not by playing the best players.

 

That being said - I agree. You would expect Tonali would feature in our "best team".

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, Heron said:

If we do win more with Lonfstaff in - what is concerning about it? We're here to win games by fielding the best team. Not by playing the best players.

 

That being said - I agree. You would expect Tonali would feature in our "best team".

Because Longstaff isn’t the reason we win more. It’s a coincidence basically. 

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Heron]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Because Longstaff isn’t the reason we win more. It’s a coincidence basically. 

 

 

 

Howay man.  That's basically fingers in ears going "lalalala".

 

Absolutely zero attempt for folk to be objective in Sean Longstaff's case at times. Similar happens with Dan Burn. I really don't get it...

[SUPERTOON]

I mean we won more with Burn at LB, I wouldn’t want to see him back there either.

[JonBez comesock]

It’s a team game 

 

longstaff / burn in the team isn’t the factor 

for example 

 

Isak / Gordon scoring / not scoring  v Brighton has no connection at all to longstaff starting or not 

[80]

20 minutes ago, Heron said:

Longstaff Starts - Not subbed

Southampton (W)

Wimbledon (W)

 

Longstaff Starts - Subbed

Bournemouth (D) (Losing 1 -0, Willock replaces)

Tottenham (W) (Drawing 1-1, Tonali replaces)

Wolves (W) (Losing 1-0, Tonali replaces)

 

Tonali Starts - Subbed

Nottingham Forest (D) (1-1, Longstaff replaces, Newcastle win the game on pens - Longstaff scores his)

Man City (D) (1-1, Longstaff replaces)

Everton (D) (0-0, Longstaff replaces)

 

Longstaff doesn't feature

Fulham (L)

 

Longstaff Subbed In

Brighton (L) (0-1, Longstaff replaces Gordon)

 

 

You have to admit this starts to paint a less favourable picture of his contributions, right? 

 

I realise that's more to it than this (and the other stats mentioned), but these results imply 5 points 'gained' while Longstaff is playing and 7 points for Tonali (both get 1 point for Everton).

 

A 40% uplift without Longstaff! Wow!

 

 

Edited October 24, 2024 by 80

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Heron said:

Why would anyone dislike Sean Longstaff as a Newcastle supporter? A Geordie playing his heart our for his home town side. He may not be as good as Tonali but he is as inoffensive as can be. Peculiar crack.

 

 

 

It's not about disliking Longstaff, it's about wanting Newcastle to become a team that qualifies regularly for the CL. If we can do that with Longstaff great. Personally I don't think he's a CL player, and I know he played a part in getting us into it for one season. Tonali is a CL player, and if we put either of them up for sale it would be reflected in which teams came in for them.

[Heron]

20 minutes ago, 80 said:

You have to admit this starts to paint a less favourable picture of his contributions, right? 

 

I realise that's more to it than this (and the other stats mentioned), but these results imply 5 points 'gained' while Longstaff is playing and 7 points for Tonali (both get 1 point for Everton).

 

A 40% uplift without Longstaff! Wow!

 

 

 

Yeah, that's fair.

 

However, it being raised (albeit via Twitter) is also fair. It's not as clear until someone does more digging (as I have done).

 

I'm not saying Longstaff is better, I said (on the basis of the data I had at the time) we win more with him in the side - which is more important. Now that data has been (in)validated then it's obviosuly different.

 

What doesn't change, is that folk have absolutely zero objectivity in their analysis of Longstaff at times. Bizarre.

[Heron]

19 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

It's not about disliking Longstaff, it's about wanting Newcastle to become a team that qualifies regularly for the CL. If we can do that with Longstaff great. Personally I don't think he's a CL player, and I know he played a part in getting us into it for one season. Tonali is a CL player, and if we put either of them up for sale it would be reflected in which teams came in for them.

Other comments suggested it was.

 

As for the rest - I agree.