Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Al-Ahli)

[Toonjam88]

If he is that good why is Real Madrid, Manchester City, Barcelona, even bloody Chelsea after him? I am not saying he isn’t good he is but the way some people go on here and in the fan base you would think he was bloody Messi 

[hakka]

33 minutes ago, Toon88 said:

Comparing to similar players in 22/23

 

Kvaratskhelia - Apps 34 games - 12 goals/10 assists

 

Leao - Apps - 35 games - 15 goals/8 assists

 

Vinicius Jnr - Apps - 33 games - 10 goals/9 assists

Grealish - Apps - 28 games - 5 goals/7 assists

 

Chukwueze - Apps - 37 games - 6 goals/5 assists

 

Harvey Barnes - Apps 34 games - 13 goals 

 

Saint-Maximin - Apps - 25 games - 1 goal/5 assists

 

Comparing to others, his stats showcase he’s not a genuine goal threat for the position he plays, compared to Europe’s elite. Assists is on a par level. Least appearances of all, showcasing his injury record. In the last four seasons (152 league games), he’s missed 41.

 

I fully appreciate what he has done and did for the club during the Ashley era. However, the club dynamic has changed, and our FFP restrictions, means he’s our biggest saleable asset and is therefore expendable. He’s not elite, the stats prove that, and he has an awful injury record. He’s also lost half a yard of pace protecting those hamstrings, and in his attempt to press to the demands Howe requires.

 

Time to sell. 

 

 

He didn't play 25 x 90 min games. He played 12.38 full games minutes wise. When you actually start comparing the time on the pitch compared to others his stats suddenly show he's very effective per 90 mins played. You're deliberately picking stats that are not compatible and unfair to suit your agenda of getting rid of ASM.

[Toonjam88]

9 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

He's quite clearly a very effective player in the final 3rd:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we are using that then look at Tonalis and he is shit. 

[hakka]

5 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said:

If he is that good why is Real Madrid, Manchester City, Barcelona, even bloody Chelsea after him? I am not saying he isn’t good he is but the way some people go on here and in the fan base you would think he was bloody Messi 

 

Nobody is saying he's like Messi

 

All I've pointed out is the facts of his stats. If you want reject reality and spout things nobody is saying you crack on bud.

[Toonjam88]

Here is another stat site. 
 

[Toonjam88]

2 minutes ago, hakka said:

 

Nobody is saying he's like Messi

 

All I've pointed out is the facts of his stats. If you want reject reality and spout things nobody is saying you crack on bud.

And if you read what I said I didn’t say people were calling him Messi I said they way people go on about him you would think he was Messi so you crack on bud. 

[Toon88]

12.38 full games minutes wise over an entire season and you want to keep him? My god. The guy misses huge chunks of the season, every season. 

 

You’d happily put up with an injury prone player, instead of selling him, and helping the club overcome its FFP restrictions, while in the process bringing in top quality talent? Talk about holding the club back. The club wants to progress and go the next level, but some fans are just happy settling for mediocrity, and being all sentimental over one magical game every three months.

 

Strange.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Toon88

[Interpolic]

16 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

He's quite clearly a very effective player in the final 3rd:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seeing a lot of these charts recently, do you know if the percentile is versus other NUFC players? Other PL players? Same position? 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Interpolic

[JJ7]

People are going to have to get used to the fact that we will need to sell players (some who may even be popular) who are actually worth something if we want to progress. I love him and he's unplayable on his day, but he's injury prone and inconsistent. If we can get £30m plus for him we should be selling.

[MrRaspberryJam]

2 minutes ago, JJ7 said:

People are going to have to get used to the fact that we will need to sell players (some who may even be popular) who are actually worth something if we want to progress. I love him and he's unplayable on his day, but he's injury prone and inconsistent. If we can get £30m plus for him we should be selling.

we want slapping if we’re willing to accept at least 30m. 

[hakka]

1 minute ago, Toon88 said:

12.38 full games minutes wise over an entire season and you want to keep him? My god. The guy misses huge chunks of the season, every season. 

 

You’d happily put up with an injury prone player, instead of selling him, and helping the club overcome its FFP restrictions, while in the process bringing in top quality talent? Talk about holding the club back. The club wants to progress and go the next level, but some fans are just happy settling for mediocrity, and being all sentimental over one magical game every three months.

 

Strange.

 

 

 

 

I'd prefer to keep ASM for one more season to see if he can have one where he is less injured, more fit and with more games to play be used more and potentially have one of his better, if not best seasons with us. Wanting that is not holding the club back  

 

I agree you can say his injury record is a concern and how long his contract is left his value will drop in a year. I will challenge the notion that he isn't a quality player with good end product and outcomes, because his stats per 90 mins are undeniable.

 

Selling him won't generate money to buy anything more than replacing his quality is my view, but others may feel you could land a different position and use someone else to cover ASM position. That's fine, I just prefer to give him an extra year and see.

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, JJ7 said:

People are going to have to get used to the fact that we will need to sell players (some who may even be popular) who are actually worth something if we want to progress. I love him and he's unplayable on his day, but he's injury prone and inconsistent. If we can get £30m plus for him we should be selling.

 

Yep. I don't want to sell him either, but Ashworth has already said to be successful we will have to get to a position where we can trade players and generate income. If anyone doubts it, then just look at how Chelsea and Liverpool have gone from being on the verge or FFP restrictions to generating massive revenues by selling to Saudi.

 

It's sickening we are having to play catch up, but the way FFP is structured we'll never do it unless we are creative in the market, and that includes selling popular players if the numbers make sense. I dare say we would sell Callum Wilson as well if a decent bid came in, and he scored 17 goals last season.

[Pata]

27 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said:

2 of those assists were against City the one game which he played like everyone seems to think he plays on a regular basis. 

So they don’t count?

 

It’s hilarious that he is comparing him to the absolute elite of the position and is using apps and not minutes.
 

If we really want to sell someone I would rather try to get 10-15m for Murphy or 20m for Almiron than 30-35m for ASM. If ASM has a good season he’s worth at least 50m, we’ll never get more for Murphy or Almiron.

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Pata said:

So they don’t count?

 

It’s hilarious that he is comparing him to the absolute elite of the position and is using apps and not minutes.
 

If we really want to sell someone I would rather try to get 10-15m for Murphy or 20m for Almiron than 30-35m for ASM. If ASM has a good season he’s worth at least 50m, we’ll never get more for Murphy or Almiron.

 

We'd sell both if we got those sort of offers IMO.

[Pata]

25 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said:

If he is that good why is Real Madrid, Manchester City, Barcelona, even bloody Chelsea after him? I am not saying he isn’t good he is but the way some people go on here and in the fan base you would think he was bloody Messi 

Why aren’t they after Bruno, Isak, Joelinton or Botman then? Every team in the world knows where are not sellers, your point doesn’t make any sense.

[Toonjam88]

1 minute ago, Pata said:

So they don’t count?

 

It’s hilarious that he is comparing him to the absolute elite of the position and is using apps and not minutes.
 

If we really want to sell someone I would rather try to get 10-15m for Murphy or 20m for Almiron than 30-35m for ASM. If ASM has a good season he’s worth at least 50m, we’ll never get more for Murphy or Almiron.

Well Howe seems to rate Murphy and Almiron higher than ASM unless you think he is wrong? 

[Toonjam88]

1 minute ago, Pata said:

Why aren’t they after Bruno, Isak, Joelinton or Botman then? Every team in the world knows where are not sellers, your point doesn’t make any sense.

They were literally linked with Bruno at the beginning of the window and they are the first on the team sheet. Even when ASM is fully fit he isn’t the first in the team sheet so unless everyone thinks Howe is wrong then he he is our most saleable assist who isn’t a guaranteed first team player simple. 

[Eveready]

His stock is low as it's ever been due to injuries and despite being a player who needs a few games to regain match fitness, his G/A contribution per 90 was still one of the best in the team last year.

 

Even with the short term impact on FFP, I cannot understand how people would be happy to accept £30-35m for him when it would cost easily double that to replace him.

[Pata]

5 minutes ago, Toonjam88 said:

Well Howe seems to rate Murphy and Almiron higher than ASM unless you think he is wrong? 

ASM has started pretty much every game under Howe when fully fit.  And no need to point out he had many injuries last season, he had but it was also pretty much his worst season injury-wise in his career.

 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Pata

[Pata]

1 minute ago, Toonjam88 said:

They were literally linked with Bruno at the beginning of the window and they are the first on the team sheet. Even when ASM is fully fit he isn’t the first in the team sheet so unless everyone thinks Howe is wrong then he he is our most saleable assist who isn’t a guaranteed first team player simple. 

Oh the player trade where we were paying something in addition to giving away Bruno? Seemed a legit link.

[Toonjam88]

4 minutes ago, Pata said:

ASM has started pretty much every game under Howe when fully fit.  And no need to point out he had many injuries last season, he had but it was also pretty much his worst season injury-wise in his career.

 

 

 

No he didn’t. Started 12 games this season and was subbed on 13 games. Or are you proving everyone’s point by the fact he was only fully fit 12 games throughout the whole season? 

[Toonjam88]

5 minutes ago, Pata said:

Oh the player trade where we were paying something in addition to giving away Bruno? Seemed a legit link.

That was a stupid link there were more links than that including one to Liverpool. But you’re just ignoring the fact the players you used as an example are the first ones on the team sheet so that’s why they aren’t after them. 

[Toonjam88]

8 minutes ago, Pata said:

ASM has started pretty much every game under Howe when fully fit.  And no need to point out he had many injuries last season, he had but it was also pretty much his worst season injury-wise in his career.

 

 

 

You just edited that after my post ???

[Toonjam88]

Anyway good debate everyone has there own opinions that’s what this forum is all about ??

[Stottie]

With Maxi, you have to remember he had two seasons bailing out a clueless c*nt of a manager playing "hit it to Maxi" ball. That's a lot to unlearn.

 

I said it on another thread but the main issue is his xG, basically him not getting into goalscoring positions. Thanks to the wonders of stats, we can rank him against other players in the team for expected goals per shot. He is easily the worst of all our attacking players.

 

 

He's shooting on average from positions where a statistically average player will score only 1 in 16. Even Bruno, who shoots from farther out, is 1 is 10.

 

Under Howe in 22/23, Maxi's chance creation for others was top notch and he's young enough to suggest there still could be a player in there, though maybe not as a first choice in a "intensity is our identity" setup. For us to carry him with his limited defensive contribution, he's going have to start scoring more. Miggy did it as a player who's older, so I wouldn't completely rule it out just yet. 

 

 

The financial stuff is beyond me, but if it makes sense to sell him, so be it. I think of all of our players as replaceable, especially now with the recruitment team we have. Clinging to what we have in already is Ashley-era thinking that we don't need to do any more.