Eddie Howe - Granted Freedom of Newcastle

[JEToon]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

It wasn't just a few crap league finishes though was it? It was going to be three relegations despite no PL relegation prior. It was going to be a solitary season in Europe. It was going to be year on year of absolute turgid football under footballing dinosaurs. Calling it 'a few crap league finishes' is a rewrite of history itself. 

 

The asset stripping, running the club for his own interest, lack of investment amongst a plethora of bad decisions all essentially translated to the above. Im hardly trying to rewrite history by stating that, in my opinion the crux of the matter for the majority of football fans boils down to results on the pitch. 

 

Correct, it wasn't just a few crap league finishes that was clearly said flippantly to dismiss how turgid the point you are making is . You are clearly becoming aware of how daft what you are saying is though, so well done for that,  as you have even rewritten the history of your own argument as you earlier said

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

People did give a fuck even when we were winning games because the way Mike Ashley ran the club was a fucking disgrace and a load of fans knew it so trying to act like they didn’t care about it even when we won is a rewrite of history in its self, you keep trying to walk it back though that fans didn't think that way, you will struggle with it but you do you. 

 

[Vedder]

37 minutes ago, Stottie said:

While mistakes have been made, I don't think they are necessarily obvious mistakes. Looking back on 22/23 when we finished fourth, I would say our vulnerabilities were excessive reliance and predictability on Trippier for creativity, excessive reliance on the limited talent of Almiron for goals, and probable lack of depth at forward with Isak and Wilson only. However, we went on to score more goals in 23/24, kind of weird when you think about it, and the problems instead proved to be a lack of depth at keeper and an emerging chasm between defence and midfield, exacerbated by lack of pace at CB. It is this season, one season on, where I feel the 22/23 vulnerabilities have come home to roost, namely little threat from RW, insufficient creativity from midfield to make up for what Trippier used to do, and Wilson AWOL, leaving our forward options extermely limited. On top of this, the defensive issues of 23/24 have not been solved. 

Not sure these are Howe's mistakes though, he can only use what he has play with. In 2022/23 he performed incredibly well getting Trippier to be so influential and Almiron scoring goals, but it was always goign to be a struggle to keep those levels so high. Lack of depth in the keeper position, slowness of our centre halves, Wilson AWOL etc. can't be laid just at Howe's feet. We're not able to spend because of PSR and there is a whole recruitment infrastructure at the club.

 

Given our resources, a par season is 7th or 8th, some fans just don't want to hear that. I appreciate we're on a bad run but we'd be crazy to let Howe go unless there's a real upgrade available, which I struggle to see at the moment.  

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

There’s always things the manager could do better. I think overplaying and causing injuries to Wilson, Isak and Joelinton probably cost us 6th place last season. Not trusting Tino and Hall a little earlier cost us 6th place imo.  That midfield gap cost us 6th place. Howe has always made mistakes.  
 

But the squad should finish 7th ish and that’s what he did.  If Howe was the perfect manager maybe we could’ve finished 5/6th but he’s not perfect.  
 

Now we are a little down on where we should be. Agreed.  Yeh if Howe did everything right we would be 5th/6th.  As long as we are in touching distance of where we should finish 7th/8th im not going to complain too much. I do think June - Sep has caused a headwind and finishing 7th/8th would be a good job from Howe. Unless the mood changes I think a 9/10th would be ok even and the performances it brings. But I reckon he pays for that with his job.  
 

I stand by it - there’s no reason why we should demand European football. The cost of the squad nor the wages demand it.  The squad is stale. The atmosphere isn’t right.  A couple smart signings and a cup final would change everything aye.  

 

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

 

I recognise the team/squad is unbalanced and things aren't perfect.

 

Just think it's a big shame that it wasn't recognised from earlier on that we needed legs in the deeper midfield position, and also that we needed a more stable first team.

 

Even with all our issues, these things would have made a big difference I believe. 

 

And because of how open the league is, we'd have been in a great place even if it still didn't look perfect all the time.

 

As bad as things have been we're still just 5 points off still. 

 

Unfortunately, even now I'm concerned about what lineup we'll see next game. Doesn't seem problems are being recognised.

[Dokko]

Think the list highlights the problem, there isn't many managers out there who are better and would be that next step up. Those ones aren't coming here. Not right now. 

 

Howe needs support from the club, but it seems thry are happy to stand off him and let him take the difficult questions 

 

 

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I can’t see a situation where we fall so far behind that Howe gets sacked before the end of the season. Therefore we need to do everything to find him a couple of players in January IMO.
 

As hard as that is, a clear injection of fresh quality is our best chance to have a good season. Probably more than getting a new manager. And that’s without thinking of the long term impact of getting back on the manager rollercoaster. 

 

January tends to be for clubs that are in a position to pay over the odds in order to get a player they really like at a time clubs aren't as open to selling.

 

Unless for some reason a player has been made available for some reason e.g. Gordon's palava at Everton. Or a player is looking to go out on loan as things aren't working out great at their current club.

 

We aren't really in position to pay over the odds, and so we'd have to be really lucky with someone we like being made available for a good fee, or on loan.

 

I'm not that optimistic. Think more business will start being done from the summer.

[HaydnNUFC]

4 minutes ago, Dokko said:

Think the list highlights the problem, there isn't many managers out there who are better and would be that next step up. Those ones aren't coming here. Not right now. 

 

Howe needs support from the club, but it seems thry are happy to stand off him and let him take the difficult questions 

 

 

 

We don't know that those managers wouldn't come here, though. No one ever thought we could attract someone with Benitez's stock in 2016 under Ashley whilst 19th in the league, yet we did.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

January tends to be for clubs that are in a position to pay over the odds in order to get a player they really like at a time clubs aren't as open to selling.

 

Unless for some reason a player has been made available for some reason e.g. Gordon's palava at Everton. Or a player is looking to go out on loan as things aren't working out great at their current club.

 

We aren't really in position to pay over the odds, and so we'd have to be really lucky with someone we like being made available for a good fee, or on loan.

 

I'm not that optimistic. Think more business will start being done from the summer.

Yeah I get that, I just think we have to try and do something. 
 

If we don’t, then the decision gets more difficult in the summer. If you’re planning to sell some star players and start again then there are strong arguments for and against keeping Howe for next season. Depending on how the season ends up obviously. 

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Yeah I get that, I just think we have to try and do something. 
 

If we don’t, then the decision gets more difficult in the summer. If you’re planning to sell some star players and start again then there are strong arguments for and against keeping Howe for next season. Depending on how the season ends up obviously. 

 

Yeah, for sure.

 

I think if someone we like is available for a fair fee I'm sure we will. Hopefully that is the case.

 

If we are looking for top quality for the first team though, it might prove difficult.

 

[Doctor Zaius]

16 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

Correct, it wasn't just a few crap league finishes that was clearly said flippantly to dismiss how turgid the point you are making is . You are clearly becoming aware of how daft what you are saying is though, so well done for that,  as you have even rewritten the history of your own argument as you earlier said

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

People did give a fuck even when we were winning games because the way Mike Ashley ran the club was a fucking disgrace and a load of fans knew it so trying to act like they didn’t care about it even when we won is a rewrite of history in its self, you keep trying to walk it back though that fans didn't think that way, you will struggle with it but you do you. 

 

 

You said it flippantly to trying diminish the point I'm making about results on the pitch being of the utmost importance. It wasnt just a few bad league positions and that was the ire of most people's anger, that's my point. 

 

The banners, the protests, the boycotts wouldn't have been as prevalent if we were somehow achieving on the field, without doubt. Results are more important than anything else for the majority in my opinion, whether you share that opinion or not, I don't really care. Not sure why you keep signing off with 'you do you' either as if it's some kind of withering put down.

[JEToon]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

You said it flippantly to trying diminish the point I'm making about results on the pitch being of the utmost importance. It wasnt just a few bad league positions and that was the ire of most people's anger, that's my point. 

 

The banners, the protests, the boycotts wouldn't have been as prevalent if we were somehow achieving on the field, without doubt. Results are more important than anything else for the majority in my opinion, whether you share that opinion or not, I don't really care. Not sure why you keep signing off with 'you do you' either as if it's some kind of withering put down.

 

 

fucking hell, are you well?

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

we were winning games and people STILL gave a fuck because the way he was running the club was dangerous and a fuck load of fans always knew it, your point would have some form of validity had Mike Ashley never ran the club but he did and it evidenced that the point you are making is a load of shite, no matter what way you try and walk it back. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by JEToon

[The College Dropout]

26 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

We don't know that those managers wouldn't come here, though. No one ever thought we could attract someone with Benitez's stock in 2016 under Ashley whilst 19th in the league, yet we did.

Do you think we can make a Bruce to Rafa jump in quality before the end of the season?

 

I don’t follow other leagues closely. Just Real.  So I only know if Xavi Alonso as an elite manager. Could we get him?  I would do that tomorrow.  But I don’t think it’s possible. 

[El Prontonise]

[The College Dropout]

You are both right I think. 
 

It took me some time to realise we could only ever be as good as Ashley wanted us to be. Didn’t matter the manager. We would never sustain a challenge.  
 

So now what the owners do is my number 1 issue. 

[Doctor Zaius]

11 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

 

fucking hell, are you well?

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

we were winning games and people STILL gave a fuck because the way he was running the club was dangerous and a fuck load of fans always knew it, your point would have some form of validity had Mike Ashley never ran the club but he did and it evidenced that the point you are making is a load of shite, no matter what way you try and walk it back. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We weren't winning games with any sort of consistency.  We never finished above fucking 10th in a decade aside from that one season under Pardew. Had we been regularly qualifying for Europe under him, there would have been less noise about his running of the club, because like I say, results matter. Im not fucking claiming grass isn't fuckin green here like. Christ alive.

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Doctor Zaius

[HaydnNUFC]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Do you think we can make a Bruce to Rafa jump in quality before the end of the season?

 

I don’t follow other leagues closely. Just Real.  So I only know if Xavi Alonso as an elite manager. Could we get him?  I would do that tomorrow.  But I don’t think it’s possible. 

 

'Bruce to Rafa' is extreme, howeh. But there are good managers out there, and suggesting that any of those that have a decent chance of being better categorically won't come here is shortsighted imo. No one knows that, and we are still an attractive proposition especially with some of the players we have.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by HaydnNUFC

[AyeDubbleYoo]

9 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

 

fucking hell, are you well?

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

we were winning games and people STILL gave a fuck because the way he was running the club was dangerous and a fuck load of fans always knew it, your point would have some form of validity had Mike Ashley never ran the club but he did and it evidenced that the point you are making is a load of shite, no matter what way you try and walk it back. 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually wanted us to lose. Winning just proved that Mike Ashley’s criminal approach was working. I wanted us to lose very week TBH, I didn’t even celebrate goals by the end. 

[JEToon]

3 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

We weren't winning games with any sort of consistency.  We never finished above fucking 10th in a decade aside from that one season under Pardew. Had we been regularly qualifying for Europe under him, there would have been less noise about his running of the club, because like I say, results matter. Im not fucking claiming grass isn't fuckin green here like. Christ alive.

 

 

 

 

 

So your point is, had Mike Ashley never existed, no one would have moaned about Mike Ashley, aye fantastic point that. 

[Doctor Zaius]

1 minute ago, JEToon said:

 

So your point is, had Mike Ashley never existed, no one would have moaned about Mike Ashley, aye fantastic point that. 

 

In a world where Mike Ashley's Newcastle had finished consistently in Europe (winning consistently) there would have been less of a fuck given about how he ran the club - rightly or wrongly. That's my point. Genuinely don't think it's that hard to understand.

 

[JEToon]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

In a world where Mike Ashley's Newcastle had finished consistently in Europe (winning consistently) there would have been less of a fuck given about how he ran the club - rightly or wrongly. That's my point. Genuinely don't think it's that hard to understand.

 

 

It's not that hard to understand, it's just bullshit really because it's a complete and utter rewrite of who he was, and he didn't achieve those things because of how he ran the club. "I know but if we did....." rinse and repeat, it's just a shite point in the context of him and how many fans were clued up on it and just how cancerous he actually was, people did know, people did care, and a fucking lot of them did to try and act like people would have just been brazen to it regardless of how we performed is nonsense 

 

It's also just a bit redundant and a bit boring now really to both post it and to those reading it 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by JEToon

[Darth Crooks]

1 hour ago, Yorkie said:

I can't get my head around people not aligning with the message on that banner. It wasn't sanctimonious at all. Its purpose was to highlight that the club wasn't even trying to compete, all the while the fanbase was being continuously gaslit around supposedly unrealistic expectations. I can't believe anyone who's been on this forum long enough wouldn't get that. 

 

Obviously we all want a team that wins; the point was that, at the time - after years of deliberate regression - all we wanted (at the very fucking least) was for us to have a go. Deluded Geordies think they should be in the top 4! Er, just trying for something more than 17th and the 3rd round of the cup would be decent, like.

 

It was misquoted as team twice so many times - the nuance of team and club obviously too subtle for some.

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Vedder said:

Not sure these are Howe's mistakes though, he can only use what he has play with. In 2022/23 he performed incredibly well getting Trippier to be so influential and Almiron scoring goals, but it was always goign to be a struggle to keep those levels so high. Lack of depth in the keeper position, slowness of our centre halves, Wilson AWOL etc. can't be laid just at Howe's feet. We're not able to spend because of PSR and there is a whole recruitment infrastructure at the club.

 

Given our resources, a par season is 7th or 8th, some fans just don't want to hear that. I appreciate we're on a bad run but we'd be crazy to let Howe go unless there's a real upgrade available, which I struggle to see at the moment.  

 

 

7th or 8th isn't going to have fans screaming for Howe's P45. The concern is more the way we are playing and shipping points to teams with less resources and who would normally be lower half or relegation fodder. Given that, I would be concerned we might find 7th/8th out of reach unless we turn things around pretty quickly.

[Doctor Zaius]

11 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

It's not that hard to understand, it's just bullshit really because it's a complete and utter rewrite of who he was, and he didn't achieve those things because of how he ran the club. "I know but if we did....." rinse and repeat, it's just a shite point in the context of him and how many fans were clued up on it and just how cancerous he actually was, people did know, people did care, and a fucking lot of them did to try and act like people would have just been brazen to it regardless of how we performed is nonsense 

 

 

 

 

At no point have I tried to rewrite how he was. 

 

He was killing the club and we were woeful on the pitch and the response from the fanbase was fractured at best. Had we been finishing 6th/7th every season, the opposition to him would have been minimal, particularly from match going fans, which was my original point. You're entitled to think in wrong all you want.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Doctor Zaius

[The College Dropout]

25 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

'Bruce to Rafa' is extreme, howeh. But there are good managers out there, and suggesting that any of those that have a decent chance of being better categorically won't come here is shortsighted imo. No one knows that, and we are still an attractive proposition especially with some of the players we have.

 

 

 

We are attractive to managers a level above Howe with all of our PSR issues?

 

I'm not even certain a manager like Emery is a definitive level above Howe and would come in and make a meaningful impact short, medium and long-term.

 

IMO bigger issues upstairs.

[JEToon]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

At no point have I tried to rewrite how he was. 

 

He was killing the club and we were woeful on the pitch and the response from the fanbase was fractured at best. Had we been finishing 6th/7th every season, the opposition to him would have been minimal, particularly from match going fans. 

 

[TRon]

33 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You are both right I think. 
 

It took me some time to realise we could only ever be as good as Ashley wanted us to be. Didn’t matter the manager. We would never sustain a challenge.  
 

So now what the owners do is my number 1 issue. 

 

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We are attractive to managers a level above Howe with all of our PSR issues?

 

I'm not even certain a manager like Emery is a definitive level above Howe and would come in and make a meaningful impact short, medium and long-term.

 

IMO bigger issues upstairs.

 

 

Maybe take it up in the PIF thread and see if we can figure a way forward there.