Eddie Howe

[Vinny Green Balls]

What confounds me is talk of bringing in "elite" managers who would only likely be here for 2 or 3 seasons. With Howe, we have the potential of having him for awhile, and the potential for him to grow with the club, which would put us in a much stronger and more stable position than some two year flash in the pan. He's earned a bit more latitude than half a season after the previous 1 and 3/4 seasons. One or two on here just gave him until the Brighton game before they started expressing concern that he may not be the right man. 

 

And ffs, andycap, people on here were saying that we got sussed out one year ago. Forest for the trees, man. 

 

 

Edited February 8 by Vinny Green Balls

[TheBrownBottle]

The crowd hardly happy-clapped their way through the Ashley era.  I sacked it off when Ashley got rid of KK, but I don’t for a second think that everyone who still went after that were all complicit in what occurred (I also didn’t think Ashley would be around for a decade and a half - had I known my self-imposed exile may not have occurred).  

 

Expectations change, that’s football.  The crowd turned on Robson in the end, and that was perfectly fine with me too - his time was up.

 

Newcastle has spent almost half a billion quid in two years, and ST prices are rising rapidly.  Football crowds have always been reactionary, and all crowds expectations change based on where the club is at that point.  ‘We were playing X, or were in division Y, Z number of seasons ago’ is meaningless if significant investment has taken place.  You’re not looking at something miraculous - you’re looking at (mainly) well-spent huge sums of money being spent on a PL club.  Howe’s done a great job in my opinion - but other opinions exist. 

 

I have never booed or jeered at a football ground - I never saw how that helped.  I don’t like jumping the gun on managers, and I also think Howe should have bought plenty of time and goodwill.  But I don’t like the number of ‘they got what they deserved’ comments.  
 

Going to actually attend football matches isn’t an inexpensive use of time or money - plenty of those people kept the club afloat for years when others (like me) who couldn’t face paying Ashley money didn’t.  I’m not morally superior for taking that option - NUFC wouldn’t exist today without punters paying to attend matches; if everyone had been like me, there’s no football club.  I continue to watch from afar, but it’s a watered down experience - takes zero effort for me to sit on my arse and watch it at home.  
 

Worth thinking about for anyone sat criticising those people who continued to unhappily put up with the pigswill Ashley served up - they’re the ones who deserve the success that’s hopefully coming, not those of us sat on our arses watching on TV.  Yes, people acting like divs and being overreactive at the match will happen - they should calm down - but they didn’t ‘deserve’ Ashley.  Fuck that. 

 

 

Edited February 8 by TheBrownBottle

[Lazarus]

Some of us seem to think that Howe is the finished article as a manager. He's not - hes still only 46 and learning his trade.

 

Let him grow with the club.

[TheBrownBottle]

20 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

Some of us seem to think that Howe is the finished article as a manager. He's not - hes still only 46 and learning his trade.

 

Let him grow with the club.

I’m happy for him to be here, but 46 isn’t young for a manager tbf.  
 

By point of comparison to some big names, Alex Ferguson had won several Scottish titles and won the CWC with Aberdeen after beating Real Madrid in the final; Rafa Benitez, Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola had won the European Cup; Jurgen Klopp won the Bundesliga and lost a European Cup final; Arsene Wenger was at Arsenal having previously won the Ligue 1 title with Monaco; Brian Clough had won two league titles and two European Cups with Forest; Arrigo Sacchi had won two European Cups with his great Milan side;  Rinus Michels had won three European Cups with Ajax … and so on, and so forth.

 

Doesn’t mean Howe won’t be successful, but he isn’t a young manager.  

[jackyboy]

I think that the biggest hammer blow was losing Tonali. That has thrown Eddie's plans into disarray 

[arnonel]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m happy for him to be here, but 46 isn’t young for a manager tbf.  
 

By point of comparison to some big names, Alex Ferguson had won several Scottish titles and won the CWC with Aberdeen after beating Real Madrid in the final; Rafa Benitez, Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola had won the European Cup; Jurgen Klopp won the Bundesliga and lost a European Cup final; Arsene Wenger was at Arsenal having previously won the Ligue 1 title with Monaco; Brian Clough had won two league titles and two European Cups with Forest; Arrigo Sacchi had won two European Cups with his great Milan side;  Rinus Michels had won three European Cups with Ajax … and so on, and so forth.

 

Doesn’t mean Howe won’t be successful, but he isn’t a young manager.  

 

What a pointless post. 

Does he really need to be compared to some of the greatest managers? 

 

Can I counter?

99% of managers who have ever lived, havent won any major trophies by 46. Howe is in the 1%

 

 

[80]

3 minutes ago, arnonel said:

 

What a pointless post. 

Does he really need to be compared to some of the greatest managers? 

 

Can I counter?

99% of managers who have ever lived, havent won any major trophies by 46. Howe is in the 1%

 

 

He's just pointing out that great managers have often approached greatness by 46. They don't all suddenly explode into life in their 50s - in case anyone was under that impression. He's not disputing that Howe has scope to achieve big things. I mean, we want him to be compared to the great managers because we hope he'll be considered among them in the next few years, right?

[TheBrownBottle]

11 minutes ago, arnonel said:

 

What a pointless post. 

Does he really need to be compared to some of the greatest managers? 

 

Can I counter?

99% of managers who have ever lived, havent won any major trophies by 46. Howe is in the 1%

 

 

Thanks

 

The point obviously was that Howe isn’t a young manager - most managers who are successful are actually successful at this point.  Doesn’t mean he won’t win things with us, but he’s not a whippersnapper

[Dr.Spaceman]

I'm firmly in the camp where I think Howe is a good manager and really hope he's here for another 10-15 years. However, he's not immune to criticism and I think people are well within their rights to question him (or any other manager for that matter). It's football, it's subjective - people have differing opinions and it's what makes / made places like this great (before it became OTT frowned upon).

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I mean, he is a young manager. 

[sushimonster85]

25 minutes ago, jackyboy said:

I think that the biggest hammer blow was losing Tonali. That has thrown Eddie's plans into disarray 

 

I actually think Barnes may have been bigger. Think his first choice front 3 would have been Barnes, Isak, Gordon. Super fluid forward line with everyone able to interchange at any moment.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, sushimonster85 said:

 

I actually think Barnes may have been bigger. Think his first choice front 3 would have been Barnes, Isak, Gordon. Super fluid forward line with everyone able to interchange at any moment.

Barnes’s directness would have been perfect in some of the games in that bad run

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The fact that we can talk about which critical injury was the most important for about a whole day, tells me what the problem with the season has been. 

[Pancrate1892]

The guy had 12 outfield players at his disposal to play every 3 days in our most important period of the season. Unless Pep can turn Matt Richie into something's he's not overnight then I can't see how Eddie was meant to get through that lot without it costing us.

Luton was disappointing, especially as forest at home was still quite fresh, but we owe Eddie Howe for the platform he has built. Things will improve 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

20 hours ago, andycap said:

It's the system did you not see early in the season we had all our big guns playing and we were still getting cut to ribbons. 

 When did this happen exactly or am I just having a major bout of amnesia. I remember daft individual errors and no doubt teams are better prepared to face us now, which made games more difficult (Durr!). But like I said, in early December we’d beaten Man Utd for the third consecutive time to go fifth, where still in the League Cup QF and had a chance of progressing from our CL group. Then the injuries really bit. Would I like to see us have a bit more tactical flexibility, sure. But I don’t think the system is a broken as some are making out.

[500bhp]

11 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Said it before but if the fans inside the ground start to visibly show discontent at Howe and this squad, after sitting and lapping up everything Ashley, Pardew, McClaren, Carver, Bruce, etc gave them, they can fuck off.McClaren

This is bullshit like. Nobody in my part of the stadium on Saturday was turning on Howe or the players. 

 

And not all 'the fans' were happy 'lapping up everything Ashley, Pardew, McClaren, Carver, Bruce, etc gave them'. You cant generalise about 52,000 fans in a stadium. 

 

Did you attend many matches over those 14 years? Did you not hear the Get out of our club songs? 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The fans turn on everyone in different moments TBF, or at least some of us do. It's not like people weren't whinging during those previous eras. 

[Irish Magpie]

I really don't recall but did we turn on Benitez so quickly after a poor run of results?

 

 

Edited February 8 by Irish Magpie
spelling

[r0cafella]

Just now, Irish Magpie said:

I relly don't recall but did we turn on Benitez so quickly after a poor run of results?

Have we turned on Howe? Very small minority grumbling that’s it. 

[TheBrownBottle]

I still think that as a performance Villa away was the best this season (I don’t doubt that PSG at home will be the most memorable - assuming we don’t have an enjoyable afternoon at Wembley in May).  Proper Howe masterclass, absolutely out-thought Emery (who is a quality manager, of course).  That’s the sort of performance that confirms to me that Howe deserves time.

 

I don’t think the injuries issue leaves Howe immune from criticism - John Gibson raised the point on the Ronnie Gill podcast that Bielsa had a similar run at Leeds before getting hit with injuries - playing a high intensity, high press game.  I still don’t think it’s sustainable over a potentially 50-game season (allowing for a cup run and Europe), but this was Howe’s first European campaign and it’s not exactly easy to stop mid-season.  Next season will be when we’ll learn if lessons have been taken from this one.  This could still be the best season in most of our lifetimes - by this time next year Howe’s statue might be going up outside SJP (if he wins the FA Cup)

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Have we turned on Howe? Very small minority grumbling that’s it. 

No, definitely not.  If people think that a few dafties venting at SJP are ‘turning’ on the manager, then they haven’t seen it when it does.  

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Injuries are absolutely massive, that is the reason for our problems. Don't forget that we have half a championship squad with a few top players in it. 

 

Criticise anyone you want how you want, but it's mental to try and assess anything about this season without a massive caveat saying 'everyone has been injured'. 

 

Unless you think we should be doing brilliantly with only one PL midfielder available, for example, I really don't know what this debate is about. 

 

Not to mention having the hardest fixtures imaginable and also being cheated out of the CL by a ref.

 

 

Edited February 8 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Irish Magpie]

4 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Have we turned on Howe? Very small minority grumbling that’s it. 

 

Well a very small minority are generating a whole lot of discussion, which is all I was referencing; but I'll rephrase my initial question for you.

 

I really don't recall but did we (a very small minority) turn on (grumble about) Benitez so quickly after a poor run of results?

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Injuries are absolutely massive, that is the reason for our problems. Don't forget that we have half a championship squad with a few top players in it. 

 

Criticise anyone you want how you want, but it's mental to try and assess anything about this season without a massive caveat saying 'everyone has been injured'. 

 

Unless you think we should be brilliantly with only one PL midfielder available, for example, I really don't know what this debate is about. 

 

Not to mention having the hardest fixtures imaginable and also being cheated out of the CL by a ref.

 

 

 

The debate surely wouldn’t be whether or not injuries and fatigue have contributed - they obviously have.  It would be odd if anyone thought having an entire XI missing wouldn’t have an impact on results.
 

It’s whether or not there is a level of accountability re manager, coaching staff, medical staff etc for the injuries (including recurring ones) and fatigue.  My view is that there is - some of it is plain old bad luck, some of it is on the coaching / medical staff.

 

Pope, Murphy, Burn etc - just sheer bad luck.  But some have rushed back, some have been misdiagnosed, some have not been rotated when they obviously could have been.  That’s not all on Howe, but he’s not immune from criticism on some of it. 

[KaKa]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I’m happy for him to be here, but 46 isn’t young for a manager tbf.  
 

By point of comparison to some big names, Alex Ferguson had won several Scottish titles and won the CWC with Aberdeen after beating Real Madrid in the final; Rafa Benitez, Jose Mourinho and Pep Guardiola had won the European Cup; Jurgen Klopp won the Bundesliga and lost a European Cup final; Arsene Wenger was at Arsenal having previously won the Ligue 1 title with Monaco; Brian Clough had won two league titles and two European Cups with Forest; Arrigo Sacchi had won two European Cups with his great Milan side;  Rinus Michels had won three European Cups with Ajax … and so on, and so forth.

 

Doesn’t mean Howe won’t be successful, but he isn’t a young manager.  

 

Howe took a different route though. He didn't start off at a club in the first division that could realistically compete for honours.

 

What he achieved at Bournemouth was pretty extraordinary and ended up completely changing the trajectory of that club, and ultimately allowed them to be in a position to be bought by a wealthy owner and now likely become an established premier league club for good.

 

There's an argument that his achievements at Bournemouth can be held up in just as high regard. Are there any other examples of similar in recent times?