Eddie Howe

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You can't. His achievements at Aberdeen were akin to what Klopp achieved at Dortmund, what Mourinho did at Porto, what Rafa dad Valencia. Maybe greater. It marked him as likely the best British manager of his generation and all the top clubs in England wanted him.

 

Without the proven and sustained track record of success at the elite level at Aberdeen, Ferguson gets sacked at Man Utd. But he had pedigree at the highest level.

 

And this is a 40-year-old example. No manager will be given that time again and Howe certainly won't. But managers with proven track-records will continue to get more leeway than those that don't. For obvious reasons.

 

Ultimately, for Ferguson to achieve what he did at Man Utd, a level of patience was needed as even back then he was lucky to survive despite his achievements at Aberdeen. Three seasons in the bottom half of the league out of his first six at Man Utd, even back then was a lot to overlook. Kudos to them.

 

Eddie Howe's work here has been exemplary so far, and three or so poor months and enough is enough for some folks. That is an incredible level of impatience and short sightedness. I just don't get it.

[The College Dropout]

9 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yeah, it could be either, couldn’t it.  I think Howe is clearly an excellent manager - no idea if he’ll be able to take the next step.  Happy for him to get some more time to show if he can. 

Agreed.

 

I think we are both less emotionally attached to Howe than most on here.

[The Prophet]

48 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Why would he have been sacked or hounded it? He took a club that finished 13th the previous season and 9th the year before to 6th, 5th, league winners, then league and cup double and a CL final. That's 4 years of straight progression.

 

The Klopp comparison doesn't work. They do not have the same career or track record (they have similarities in coaching style).

 

 

The context being they'd broke into the Champions League spots, but fell away late in the season with a few poor results.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong to say there are similarities between the two:

 

Both made their name with a "smaller" club, saving them from the brink, taking them to the first tier and then eventually succumbing to relegation. 

 

Both put a lot of stock in the personality of their signings and have been criticised for it.

 

Both have similar styles of play, which requires high intensity and can lead to fatigue without the ability to rotate.

 

Again to emphasise, I'm not saying Howe is as good as Klopp or ever will be, I simply don't know. But Klopp did not not have a linear path to success and took time to develop his trade through trial and error.

 

Klopp would not have been considered "elite" in English football until his third season at Dortmund, simply because we're more results oriented. There's a  downsides to slapping neat labels on everything or having a pathological need to allocate blame at every turn.

 

 

Edited February 29 by The Prophet

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Ultimately, for Ferguson to achieve what he did at Man Utd, a level of patience was needed as even back then he was lucky to survive despite his achievements at Aberdeen. Three seasons in the bottom half of the league out of his first six at Man Utd, even back then was a lot to overlook. Kudos to them.

 

Eddie Howe's work here has been exemplary so far, and three or so poor months and enough is enough for some folks. That is an incredible level of impatience and short sightedness. I just don't get it.

Who doesn't want to give Howe time?

 

Not anyone in the last few pages. 

[KaKa]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Who doesn't want to give Howe time?

 

Not anyone in the last few pages. 

 

Dr. jinx and a few of his mates that were cosigning after the Blackburn game.

 

Apparently on what was formerly twitter, this sentiment is even more widespread and common.

 

It's unfortunate really.

[The College Dropout]

@The Prophet Klopp improved the final league position with Dortmund every season until winning the league. We are headed towards a substantial regression. That's a major difference. 

 

Howe's tenure is closer to Arteta's. But that first-full season was genuinely bad. He was deservedly under pressure and they were right to question him and his ability. I suspect Howe will be allowed to turn it around much like Arteta too.

[GEFAFWISP]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

The context being they'd broke into the Champions League spots, but fell away late in the season with a few poor results.

 

I don't think there's anything wrong to say there are similarities between the two:

 

Both made their name with a "smaller" club, saving them from the brink, taking them to the first tier and then eventually succumbing to relegation. 

 

Both put a lot of stock in the personality of their signings and have been criticised for it.

 

Both have similar styles of play, which requires high intensity and can lead to fatigue without the ability to rotate.

 

Again to emphasise, I'm not saying Howe is as good as Klopp or ever will be, I simply don't know. But Klopp did not not have a linear path to success and took time to develop his trade through trial and error.

 

Klopp would not have been considered "elite" in English football until his third season at Dortmund, simply because we're more results oriented. There's downsides to slapping neat labels on everything or having a pathological need to allocate blame at every turn.

 

This 100%, though it does drive debate in threads like these, relentlessly, endlessly, over and over the same points...make it stop!

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Dr. jinx and a few of his mates that were cosigning after the Blackburn game.

 

Apparently on what was formerly twitter, this sentiment is even more widespread and common.

 

It's unfortunate really.

Fair enough. You didn't quote any of those people in your recent run of posts. The discussion is about our manager's pedigree and where people have him ranked vs other managers. But fair enough we are talking about different things and people.

 

I agree - a lot of notable people on Twitter are Howe-out and that doesn't make sense to me at all. I don't even really believe it.  I think it's engagement baiting. That Rob M is one of them.

 

 

Edited February 29 by The College Dropout

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

@The Prophet Klopp improved the final league position with Dortmund every season until winning the league. We are headed towards a substantial regression. That's a major difference. 

 

Howe's tenure is closer to Arteta's. But that first-full season was genuinely bad. He was deservedly under pressure and they were right to question him and his ability. I suspect Howe will be allowed to turn it around much like Arteta too.

 

Correct, but it's ignoring absolutely all of the context surrounding the Dortmund season I discussed and our present season.

[SUPERTOON]

Personally don’t think what Howe did in his first 18 months or so here can be compared to anyone else tbh. It genuinely was a miracle from him to take us from were we where to the top 4 in that time period.

Not just in terms of league position either, but he pretty much implemented a complete change of style of play in one pre season. Genuinely don’t think any other manager would have done the same.

 

 

Edited February 29 by SUPERTOON

[Shearergol]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

@The Prophet Klopp improved the final league position with Dortmund every season until winning the league. We are headed towards a substantial regression. That's a major difference. 

 

Howe's tenure is closer to Arteta's. But that first-full season was genuinely bad. He was deservedly under pressure and they were right to question him and his ability. I suspect Howe will be allowed to turn it around much like Arteta too.

 

If only there was some ready-to-hand factual evidence to shine a light on why that might be the case. There probably isn't though, no.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

4 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

If only there was some ready-to-hand factual evidence to shine a light on why that might be the case. There probably isn't though, no.

This discussion is genuinely mental

 

It’s like people coming inside from a massive storm and arguing about why they’re wet. 

[KaKa]

1 minute ago, SUPERTOON said:

Personally don’t think what Howe did in his first 18 months or so here can be compared to anyone else tbh. It genuinely was a miracle from him to take us from were we where to the top 4 in that time period.

Not just in terms of league position either, but he pretty much implemented a complete change of style of play in on pre season. Genuinely don’t think any other manager would have done the same.

 

The change in style definitely doesn't get spoken about as much nowadays, especially considering the abject state of things when he took over.

 

Some of the electrifying performances we've had during his tenure man.

 

If we can just build this squad up a bit more in the right areas and make those performances more of the norm, man we are on our way.

[The Prophet]

The Crystal Palace result at the end of October is as complete a performance we've seen under Howe.

 

It was a few weeks before the injuries piled up and the wheels completely came off.  It's easy to forget we were playing some lovely stuff even earlier this season.

[The College Dropout]

11 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Fair enough. You didn't quote any of those people in your recent run of posts. The discussion is about our manager's pedigree and where people have him ranked vs other managers. But fair enough we are talking about different things and people.

 

I agree - a lot of notable people on Twitter are Howe-out and that doesn't make sense to me at all. I don't even really believe it.  I think it's engagement baiting. That Rob M is one of them.

 

 

 

For me btw.. Howe's achievements last season has given him enough credit to get the whole of this season. I think I need to see green shoots of recovery by the end of the season for me to be convinced he's the right man for next season. Liverpool went 8 wins in 9 towards the end of last season for example. I don't need to see that but I need to see something.

[KaKa]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Fair enough. You didn't quote any of those people in your recent run of posts. The discussion is about our manager's pedigree and where people have him ranked vs other managers. But fair enough we are talking about different things and people.

 

I agree - a lot of notable people on Twitter are Howe-out and that doesn't make sense to me at all. I don't even really believe it.  I think it's engagement baiting. That Rob M is one of them.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, too early to discuss ranking him against some of the managers that are being spoken of, however, I can understand people saying it's still early enough and open enough for him to stake a claim. A good summer and a chance to go again next season and everything will start to look a lot clearer regarding what direction he's heading in.

[et tu brute]

Howe has a good period of games with a stronger squad to improve things on the pitch and our league position (I believe he will although Blackburn did make me question a few things). If he doesn't and our current form continues, then I think there is a strong possibility that PIF may well look to replace. That's the way of the footballing world now.

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yeah, too early to discuss ranking him against some of the managers that are being spoken of, however, I can understand people saying it's still early enough and open enough for him to stake a claim. A good summer and a chance to go again next season and everything will start to look a lot clearer regarding what direction he's heading in.

I also need to see him in another European campaign to see if he's learnt lessons. You can't replicate the intensity of the CL but we'll get an idea with any Euro competition.

 

He's had the harshest introduction to European football of any manager I can remember. Straight into the big leagues and a group of death. And a style least compatible with competing in CL, league etc. 

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

For me btw.. Howe's achievements last season has given him enough credit to get the whole of this season. I think I need to see green shoots of recovery by the end of the season for me to be convinced he's the right man for next season. Liverpool went 8 wins in 9 towards the end of last season for example. I don't need to see that but I need to see something.

 

For me it really starts this summer. Has to target and upgrade the right areas and ensure more quality is added to improve the first team. The overall quality of the squad cannot be as much of an issue or topic of discussion next season. If it is it will be on him.

 

I think if he gets that right everything else will start to fall back into place, and what we did last season will be more of what we see consistently.

[KaKa]

7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I also need to see him in another European campaign to see if he's learnt lessons. You can't replicate the intensity of the CL but we'll get an idea with any Euro competition.

 

He's had the harshest introduction to European football of any manager I can remember. Straight into the big leagues and a group of death. And a style least compatible with competing in CL, league etc. 

 

Some form of European football would be great, to see some progression in managing the demands on the squad and competing more effectively on all fronts for sure.

 

Hope we can manage it, but the way Longstaff and Willock looked against Blackburn, I'm not feeling too confident. They seem miles off the levels required and there isn't much time now, and most of our issues are stemming from that midfield area.

 

 

Edited February 29 by KaKa

[Shearergol]

7 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I also need to see him in another European campaign to see if he's learnt lessons. You can't replicate the intensity of the CL but we'll get an idea with any Euro competition.

 

He's had the harshest introduction to European football of any manager I can remember. Straight into the big leagues and a group of death. And a style least compatible with competing in CL, league etc. 

 

I don't want to get into a debate or argument about this, but I do love how your posts read like you're the ultimate decision maker at the club

[Dr Venkman]

41 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

@The Prophet Klopp improved the final league position with Dortmund every season until winning the league. We are headed towards a substantial regression. That's a major difference. 

 

Howe's tenure is closer to Arteta's. But that first-full season was genuinely bad. He was deservedly under pressure and they were right to question him and his ability. I suspect Howe will be allowed to turn it around much like Arteta too.

 

Big assumption, this.

[Dokko]

5 hours ago, mouldy_uk said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68423241
 

Football schedule is not just a health risk but is 'killing the product', says PFA

 

About fucking time. It's directly linked to ffp as well which is ruining the health of footballers having to be overworked. 

 

Everything needs to change. 

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

 

Big assumption, this.

Sir, we are 11th and looking baaaaaaad.

 

17 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

 

I don't want to get into a debate or argument about this, but I do love how your posts read like you're the ultimate decision maker at the club

It's about my own personal opinion. 

 

I'm intrigued by what the club does if we don't finish in Europe. But I don't want to see it.

[Dr Venkman]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Sir, we are 11th and looking baaaaaaad.

 

Yeah, but that's ignoring the context. In Howe's time here we've been great more than we've been bad. The bad spell has corresponded with a ridiculous amount of mitigating circumstances. It's a big assumption that we're heading towards a substantial regression. In fact, Howe's time here so far suggests that he will turn it around once the mitigating circumstances abate somewhat.