Eddie Howe

[Doctor Zaius]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

The crux of the banner was about the demand being to actually even try to make relative progress on the field at ownership level. If you think the demand of all football fans is progress in itself and not the attempt to, then obviously that's your opinion, but it's certainly not my demand or my opinion like. 

 

I guess that's where we differ in opinion then. The old adage of it being a results business is at the crux of it for me. Perhaps I'm just more cynical about your average fan.

[Stottie]

I think we've seen the beginning of the end, and if things don't improve in the next three or four games, you'd have to question whether spending for Howe is going to be worth it given the PSR consequences. The weakness of other teams around us mean that any new manager bounce would get us climbing the league much more quickly than a normal, 70 points to get 4th, season. This too adds fuel to the "change the manager earlier" fire.

 

While mistakes have been made, I don't think they are necessarily obvious mistakes. Looking back on 22/23 when we finished fourth, I would say our vulnerabilities were excessive reliance and predictability on Trippier for creativity, excessive reliance on the limited talent of Almiron for goals, and probable lack of depth at forward with Isak and Wilson only. However, we went on to score more goals in 23/24, kind of weird when you think about it, and the problems instead proved to be a lack of depth at keeper and an emerging chasm between defence and midfield, exacerbated by lack of pace at CB. It is this season, one season on, where I feel the 22/23 vulnerabilities have come home to roost, namely little threat from RW, insufficient creativity from midfield to make up for what Trippier used to do, and Wilson AWOL, leaving our forward options extermely limited. On top of this, the defensive issues of 23/24 have not been solved. 

 

Since the season is well advanced, I took a look at some stats and the one that leapt out was that we've gone from second top in percentage of shots on target last season to bottom this year. From highest goals per shot, to sixth worst. We underperformed xG last year, i.e., we created enough chances on the field to deserve a higher finish, but are performing on par this year.

[Yorkie]

I can't get my head around people not aligning with the message on that banner. It wasn't sanctimonious at all. Its purpose was to highlight that the club wasn't even trying to compete, all the while the fanbase was being continuously gaslit around supposedly unrealistic expectations. I can't believe anyone who's been on this forum long enough wouldn't get that. 

 

Obviously we all want a team that wins; the point was that, at the time - after years of deliberate regression - all we wanted (at the very fucking least) was for us to have a go. Deluded Geordies think they should be in the top 4! Er, just trying for something more than 17th and the 3rd round of the cup would be decent, like.

[Doctor Zaius]

7 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

 

I think you are mistaking your lack of research and education on this and imposing it on others here, but you do you.

 

The “we” who wanted Ashley gone did so because he was a risk to the clubs future for fuck sake

 

 

Clearly my research and education, or lack of is causing me to miss a wider point here then. Why don't you enlighten me? 

 

His risk to the clubs future wouldn't have been down to hurtling towards a third relegation under his tenure would it? Or the years of finishing lower mid table? 

[mondonewc]

2 hours ago, Slim said:

Always found it very odd that people trot this out as if it was some huge flag that the whole of SJP held proudly to the world and we all have to stand by the message, rather than 10 people at an away game??? 

[KaKa]

32 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We were better at the end of last season for sure.  With a worse squad available.  
 

The June - Sep shit show has sidetracked us completely. 

 

41 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We don’t have any right to demand European football. 

 

I can't really go for this at all I'm afraid.

 

Two things. Committing to a better suited midfielder (the best of which is Tonali at the minute) at the base of our midfield in front of the back four. Making a firm decision on who would start on the left and who would start on the right.

 

If these decisions had been made with more confidence, and we played said team regularly as our agreed first team, I'm pretty certain we would have been a lot more convincing and consistent this season.

 

And if so, we would have been right in the mix for European football at the minimum, with how the league has played out.

 

Instead, we still don't even know what our first 11 is, and there's still a bunch of chopping and changing going on.

[mondonewc]

9 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I can't get my head around people not aligning with the message on that banner. It wasn't sanctimonious at all. Its purpose was to highlight that the club wasn't even trying to compete, all the while the fanbase was being continuously gaslit around supposedly unrealistic expectations. I can't believe anyone who's been on this forum long enough wouldn't get that. 

 

Obviously we all want a team that wins; the point was that, at the time - after years of deliberate regression - all we wanted (at the very fucking least) was for us to have a go. Deluded Geordies think they should be in the top 4! Er, just trying for something more than 17th and the 3rd round of the cup would be decent, like.

The message was spot on at that time, however, it doesn't now mean it should be used as a stick to beat people with if anyone has any negative constructive criticism against the club. 

I think some of the comments in this thread are beyond nuts, I think anyone wanting Howe out is a huge overreaction, but that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. If I make a flag and get a few people to hold it up supporting Howe does that mean everyone then has to agree with me forever? That's effectively what people are doing with this banner. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I don’t know, seems like an encouragement to have a bit of perspective to me.

[Doctor Zaius]

I have absolutely no doubt that Eddie Howe is trying. If he loses the next five/ten/fifteen games then trying won't be enough to placate the majority of the fanbase. 

 

You can extrapolate that to the ownership over a relevant time frame. 

 

That equates to a demand of on field progress/winning for me, regardless of what was written on some banner, however many years ago. 

[JEToon]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

Clearly my research and education, or lack of is causing me to miss a wider point here then. Why don't you enlighten me? 

 

His risk to the clubs future wouldn't have been down to hurtling towards a third relegation under his tenure would it? Or the years of finishing lower mid table? 

 

It is causing you to miss a wider point yes, asset stripping the club, complete neglect of the academy, he is even now still attempting to tie the club up in court to muddy retail deals and our ability to retail properly and his complete neglect of running the club in the interest of anyone but himself for years. 

 

The notion so many were so irked by him is just because of a few crap league finishes is an absurd rewrite of history 

[Lush Vlad]

13 hours ago, Myleftboot said:

A different site says Adi Hutter who Paul Mitchell appointed for Monaco is a strong candidate.

 

Adolf 'Adi' Hutter.

 

Well he'd sort the right wing out, at least. 

[Yorkie]

12 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

The message was spot on at that time, however, it doesn't now mean it should be used as a stick to beat people with if anyone has any negative constructive criticism against the club. 

I think some of the comments in this thread are beyond nuts, I think anyone wanting Howe out is a huge overreaction, but that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. If I make a flag and get a few people to hold it up supporting Howe does that mean everyone then has to agree with me forever? That's effectively what people are doing with this banner. 

 

8 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

I have absolutely no doubt that Eddie Howe is trying. If he loses the next five/ten/fifteen games then trying won't be enough to placate the majority of the fanbase. 

 

You can extrapolate that to the ownership over a relevant time frame. 

 

That equates to a demand of on field progress/winning for me, regardless of what was written on some banner, however many years ago. 

 

I don't think the message on the banner holds that much relevance unless the fans are being gaslit about expectations + the club isn't trying. The message is still true imo, but it's not a particularly fair as a riposte to a fan who might complain that the club needs a change in order to progress. You're allowed to want better without being totally grounded by a message that was most relevant in 2014. But it certainly wasn't sanctimonious back then. 

[The College Dropout]

22 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

I can't really go for this at all I'm afraid.

 

Two things. Committing to a better suited midfielder (the best of which is Tonali at the minute) at the base of our midfield in front of the back four. Making a firm decision on who would start on the left and who would start on the right.

 

If these decisions had been made with more confidence, and we played said team regularly as our agreed first team, I'm pretty certain we would have been a lot more convincing and consistent this season.

 

And if so, we would have been right in the mix for European football at the minimum, with how the league has played out.

 

Instead, we still don't even know what our first 11 is, and there's still a bunch of chopping and changing going on.

There’s always things the manager could do better. I think overplaying and causing injuries to Wilson, Isak and Joelinton probably cost us 6th place last season. Not trusting Tino and Hall a little earlier cost us 6th place imo.  That midfield gap cost us 6th place. Howe has always made mistakes.  
 

But the squad should finish 7th ish and that’s what he did.  If Howe was the perfect manager maybe we could’ve finished 5/6th but he’s not perfect.  
 

Now we are a little down on where we should be. Agreed.  Yeh if Howe did everything right we would be 5th/6th.  As long as we are in touching distance of where we should finish 7th/8th im not going to complain too much. I do think June - Sep has caused a headwind and finishing 7th/8th would be a good job from Howe. Unless the mood changes I think a 9/10th would be ok even and the performances it brings. But I reckon he pays for that with his job.  
 

I stand by it - there’s no reason why we should demand European football. The cost of the squad nor the wages demand it.  The squad is stale. The atmosphere isn’t right.  A couple smart signings and a cup final would change everything aye.  

[Doctor Zaius]

23 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

It is causing you to miss a wider point yes, asset stripping the club, complete neglect of the academy, he is even now still attempting to tie the club up in court to muddy retail deals and our ability to retail properly and his complete neglect of running the club in the interest of anyone but himself for years. 

 

The notion so many were so irked by him is just because of a few crap league finishes is an absurd rewrite of history 

 

It wasn't just a few crap league finishes though was it? It was going to be three relegations despite no PL relegation prior. It was going to be a solitary season in Europe. It was going to be year on year of absolute turgid football under footballing dinosaurs. Calling it 'a few crap league finishes' is a rewrite of history itself. 

 

The asset stripping, running the club for his own interest, lack of investment amongst a plethora of bad decisions all essentially translated to the above. One criticism was of his business practices, there was frequent criticism from a moral standpoint of his treatment of workers and how he should never have been associated with NUFC. It's a bit of an elephant in the room that one these days if we're honest. Im hardly trying to rewrite history by stating that, in my opinion the crux of the matter for the majority of football fans boils down to results on the pitch. 

 

 

Edited December 9 by Doctor Zaius

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I can’t see a situation where we fall so far behind that Howe gets sacked before the end of the season. Therefore we need to do everything to find him a couple of players in January IMO.
 

As hard as that is, a clear injection of fresh quality is our best chance to have a good season. Probably more than getting a new manager. And that’s without thinking of the long term impact of getting back on the manager rollercoaster. 

[JEToon]

6 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

It wasn't just a few crap league finishes though was it? It was going to be three relegations despite no PL relegation prior. It was going to be a solitary season in Europe. It was going to be year on year of absolute turgid football under footballing dinosaurs. Calling it 'a few crap league finishes' is a rewrite of history itself. 

 

The asset stripping, running the club for his own interest, lack of investment amongst a plethora of bad decisions all essentially translated to the above. Im hardly trying to rewrite history by stating that, in my opinion the crux of the matter for the majority of football fans boils down to results on the pitch. 

 

Correct, it wasn't just a few crap league finishes that was clearly said flippantly to dismiss how turgid the point you are making is . You are clearly becoming aware of how daft what you are saying is though, so well done for that,  as you have even rewritten the history of your own argument as you earlier said

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

People did give a fuck even when we were winning games because the way Mike Ashley ran the club was a fucking disgrace and a load of fans knew it so trying to act like they didn’t care about it even when we won is a rewrite of history in its self, you keep trying to walk it back though that fans didn't think that way, you will struggle with it but you do you. 

 

[Vedder]

37 minutes ago, Stottie said:

While mistakes have been made, I don't think they are necessarily obvious mistakes. Looking back on 22/23 when we finished fourth, I would say our vulnerabilities were excessive reliance and predictability on Trippier for creativity, excessive reliance on the limited talent of Almiron for goals, and probable lack of depth at forward with Isak and Wilson only. However, we went on to score more goals in 23/24, kind of weird when you think about it, and the problems instead proved to be a lack of depth at keeper and an emerging chasm between defence and midfield, exacerbated by lack of pace at CB. It is this season, one season on, where I feel the 22/23 vulnerabilities have come home to roost, namely little threat from RW, insufficient creativity from midfield to make up for what Trippier used to do, and Wilson AWOL, leaving our forward options extermely limited. On top of this, the defensive issues of 23/24 have not been solved. 

Not sure these are Howe's mistakes though, he can only use what he has play with. In 2022/23 he performed incredibly well getting Trippier to be so influential and Almiron scoring goals, but it was always goign to be a struggle to keep those levels so high. Lack of depth in the keeper position, slowness of our centre halves, Wilson AWOL etc. can't be laid just at Howe's feet. We're not able to spend because of PSR and there is a whole recruitment infrastructure at the club.

 

Given our resources, a par season is 7th or 8th, some fans just don't want to hear that. I appreciate we're on a bad run but we'd be crazy to let Howe go unless there's a real upgrade available, which I struggle to see at the moment.  

[KaKa]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

There’s always things the manager could do better. I think overplaying and causing injuries to Wilson, Isak and Joelinton probably cost us 6th place last season. Not trusting Tino and Hall a little earlier cost us 6th place imo.  That midfield gap cost us 6th place. Howe has always made mistakes.  
 

But the squad should finish 7th ish and that’s what he did.  If Howe was the perfect manager maybe we could’ve finished 5/6th but he’s not perfect.  
 

Now we are a little down on where we should be. Agreed.  Yeh if Howe did everything right we would be 5th/6th.  As long as we are in touching distance of where we should finish 7th/8th im not going to complain too much. I do think June - Sep has caused a headwind and finishing 7th/8th would be a good job from Howe. Unless the mood changes I think a 9/10th would be ok even and the performances it brings. But I reckon he pays for that with his job.  
 

I stand by it - there’s no reason why we should demand European football. The cost of the squad nor the wages demand it.  The squad is stale. The atmosphere isn’t right.  A couple smart signings and a cup final would change everything aye.  

 

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from.

 

I recognise the team/squad is unbalanced and things aren't perfect.

 

Just think it's a big shame that it wasn't recognised from earlier on that we needed legs in the deeper midfield position, and also that we needed a more stable first team.

 

Even with all our issues, these things would have made a big difference I believe. 

 

And because of how open the league is, we'd have been in a great place even if it still didn't look perfect all the time.

 

As bad as things have been we're still just 5 points off still. 

 

Unfortunately, even now I'm concerned about what lineup we'll see next game. Doesn't seem problems are being recognised.

[Dokko]

Think the list highlights the problem, there isn't many managers out there who are better and would be that next step up. Those ones aren't coming here. Not right now. 

 

Howe needs support from the club, but it seems thry are happy to stand off him and let him take the difficult questions 

 

 

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I can’t see a situation where we fall so far behind that Howe gets sacked before the end of the season. Therefore we need to do everything to find him a couple of players in January IMO.
 

As hard as that is, a clear injection of fresh quality is our best chance to have a good season. Probably more than getting a new manager. And that’s without thinking of the long term impact of getting back on the manager rollercoaster. 

 

January tends to be for clubs that are in a position to pay over the odds in order to get a player they really like at a time clubs aren't as open to selling.

 

Unless for some reason a player has been made available for some reason e.g. Gordon's palava at Everton. Or a player is looking to go out on loan as things aren't working out great at their current club.

 

We aren't really in position to pay over the odds, and so we'd have to be really lucky with someone we like being made available for a good fee, or on loan.

 

I'm not that optimistic. Think more business will start being done from the summer.

[HaydnNUFC]

4 minutes ago, Dokko said:

Think the list highlights the problem, there isn't many managers out there who are better and would be that next step up. Those ones aren't coming here. Not right now. 

 

Howe needs support from the club, but it seems thry are happy to stand off him and let him take the difficult questions 

 

 

 

We don't know that those managers wouldn't come here, though. No one ever thought we could attract someone with Benitez's stock in 2016 under Ashley whilst 19th in the league, yet we did.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

January tends to be for clubs that are in a position to pay over the odds in order to get a player they really like at a time clubs aren't as open to selling.

 

Unless for some reason a player has been made available for some reason e.g. Gordon's palava at Everton. Or a player is looking to go out on loan as things aren't working out great at their current club.

 

We aren't really in position to pay over the odds, and so we'd have to be really lucky with someone we like being made available for a good fee, or on loan.

 

I'm not that optimistic. Think more business will start being done from the summer.

Yeah I get that, I just think we have to try and do something. 
 

If we don’t, then the decision gets more difficult in the summer. If you’re planning to sell some star players and start again then there are strong arguments for and against keeping Howe for next season. Depending on how the season ends up obviously. 

[KaKa]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Yeah I get that, I just think we have to try and do something. 
 

If we don’t, then the decision gets more difficult in the summer. If you’re planning to sell some star players and start again then there are strong arguments for and against keeping Howe for next season. Depending on how the season ends up obviously. 

 

Yeah, for sure.

 

I think if someone we like is available for a fair fee I'm sure we will. Hopefully that is the case.

 

If we are looking for top quality for the first team though, it might prove difficult.

 

[Doctor Zaius]

16 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

Correct, it wasn't just a few crap league finishes that was clearly said flippantly to dismiss how turgid the point you are making is . You are clearly becoming aware of how daft what you are saying is though, so well done for that,  as you have even rewritten the history of your own argument as you earlier said

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

People did give a fuck even when we were winning games because the way Mike Ashley ran the club was a fucking disgrace and a load of fans knew it so trying to act like they didn’t care about it even when we won is a rewrite of history in its self, you keep trying to walk it back though that fans didn't think that way, you will struggle with it but you do you. 

 

 

You said it flippantly to trying diminish the point I'm making about results on the pitch being of the utmost importance. It wasnt just a few bad league positions and that was the ire of most people's anger, that's my point. 

 

The banners, the protests, the boycotts wouldn't have been as prevalent if we were somehow achieving on the field, without doubt. Results are more important than anything else for the majority in my opinion, whether you share that opinion or not, I don't really care. Not sure why you keep signing off with 'you do you' either as if it's some kind of withering put down.

[JEToon]

8 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

You said it flippantly to trying diminish the point I'm making about results on the pitch being of the utmost importance. It wasnt just a few bad league positions and that was the ire of most people's anger, that's my point. 

 

The banners, the protests, the boycotts wouldn't have been as prevalent if we were somehow achieving on the field, without doubt. Results are more important than anything else for the majority in my opinion, whether you share that opinion or not, I don't really care. Not sure why you keep signing off with 'you do you' either as if it's some kind of withering put down.

 

 

fucking hell, are you well?

 

“ Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games”

 

we were winning games and people STILL gave a fuck because the way he was running the club was dangerous and a fuck load of fans always knew it, your point would have some form of validity had Mike Ashley never ran the club but he did and it evidenced that the point you are making is a load of shite, no matter what way you try and walk it back. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9 by JEToon