Eddie Howe

[Holmesy]

Just now, 1881 said:

and the lack of squad quality inevitably forces our hand in terms ofthe tactics we employ. We competed by being ultra intense, but this is not sustainable. The cartel rules making it virtually impossible to build a better quality squad whilst also having to replace ageing players with the income we have. The owners need to be more honest/realistic about expectations because we are probably going to have to go backwards before we go forwards again.

Which is why i think the style of play issue is underplayed if anything. I'm not suggesting Eddie turn into Rafa, but Rafa built us into a resilient team that was far better than the sum of its parts with many Championship players and very little investment. I would far rather we lose some attacking intent but become more defensively resolute.
This season, we haven't lost games because of our attack - we can still score goals - we've lost them because we concede a boat load late on and constantly leave our defence exposed, and there are no obvious signs of it being addressed.
Eddie is a front foot, attacking manager and that's great - when it's good it's exciting to watch but when it's bad we look naive as fuck, and badly coached.
Building from a solid defensive base is sensible . We don't necessarily have to go backwards to go forwards, we could just tighten the fuck up, which should conserve energy in the process.

[Mills and Boon]

I don't know why the defence had dropped off so hard. It wasn't long ago we had one of the best defences in the league under Howe, but we're leaking goals for fun now.

 

Both keepers have been pony when it comes to making saves, a few extra individual errors at the back and the midfield looks easier to play through than it was, but I don't know why that's happening or what is needed to fix it

[nufcjmc]

10 minutes ago, Mills and Boon said:

I don't know why the defence had dropped off so hard. It wasn't long ago we had one of the best defences in the league under Howe, but we're leaking goals for fun now.

 

Both keepers have been pony when it comes to making saves, a few extra individual errors at the back and the midfield looks easier to play through than it was, but I don't know why that's happening or what is needed to fix it

I dont think it will be one thing

 

League has gotten stronger.

 

Players who we have are getting older.

 

Managers have seen the "Howe way"  for a number of seasons and are coming up with things to unsettle us.

 

A relentless schedule keeping players not at their peak.

 

A unsettled midfield 3. 

 

A drop off in wing play leading to losing possession. 

 

Drop off in player performances either through too many games or getting older or something else. 

 

Teams press us more and the quality to play out the back isn't there. 

 

 

 

Edited April 2 by nufcjmc

[Earp]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

Is Eddie responsible for all the wins we've had?

Not sure why that's relevant to my point.

[Holmesy]

6 minutes ago, Earp said:

Not sure why that's relevant to my point.

It's completely relevant. You can't give Eddie credit for the good but blame the players for the bad.

[Shearergol]

42 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

It's completely relevant. You can't give Eddie credit for the good but blame the players for the bad.

 

There's a teeny weeny amount of irony in your post, you know?

[TRon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

I think the style of play issues are overplayed. The squad lacks quality.

 

The 5 other CL teams have much deeper squads than us - and only 2 are close to performing at the level of expectations.

 

The squad does lack a bit of quality, but I think the style of play has exacerbated problems. Intensity is our identity doesn't really work over a season where you are playing two games a week. Maybe it does if you can rotate two sets of players every other game, but I don't think there is any squad that can get away with doing that. 

 

Anyway it's a moot point. We have the squad that we have. It's about finding a style that works with those players over a season. 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, TRon said:

 

The squad does lack a bit of quality, but I think the style of play has exacerbated problems. Intensity is our identity doesn't really work over a season where you are playing two games a week. Maybe it does if you can rotate two sets of players every other game, but I don't think there is any squad that can get away with doing that. 

 

Anyway it's a moot point. We have the squad that we have. It's about finding a style that works with those players over a season. 

We barely even try the pressing stuff.

 

And frankly - we are never going to out football the PL + CL football anyway.

 

The big difference is we lack quality.

 

We have the squad that we have + CL last 16 + Cup runs = a midtable team.

[TRon]

19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We barely even try the pressing stuff.

 

And frankly - we are never going to out football the PL + CL football anyway.

 

The big difference is we lack quality.

 

We have the squad that we have + CL last 16 + Cup runs = a midtable team.

 

Disagree on that. Woltemade and Wissa have been dropped precisely because they don't press. 

 

I thought it was noticeable in our win against Chelsea we played a more patient game and I commented on it then. 

 

I have really enjoyed our high press style over the last couple of years, but I don't think it is suitable for a European campaign. 

[The College Dropout]

10 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Disagree on that. Woltemade and Wissa have been dropped precisely because they don't press. 

 

I thought it was noticeable in our win against Chelsea we played a more patient game and I commented on it then. 

 

I have really enjoyed our high press style over the last couple of years, but I don't think it is suitable for a European campaign. 

Bit of a contradiction there. We were patient against Chelsea but didn't press crazy.... and didn't start either upfront.

 

And if pressing is so key, Woltemade in midfield wouldn't be viable at all. Our midfielders also need to press like crazy.

 

12-15 extra high-level games against the majority of the PL with a lack of quality is the prime reason for our downturn in results.

 

Last season Villa were midtable in January until they brought in quality in numbers.

[The Prophet]

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Bit of a contradiction there. We were patient against Chelsea but didn't press crazy.... and didn't start either upfront.

 

And if pressing is so key, Woltemade in midfield wouldn't be viable at all. Our midfielders also need to press like crazy.

 

12-15 extra high-level games against the majority of the PL with a lack of quality is the prime reason for our downturn in results.

 

Last season Villa were midtable in January until they brought in quality in numbers.

 

I didn't say pressing was key, that is our supposed preferred method. I never agreed with starting Woltemade in midfield either. 

 

 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, TRon said:

 

I didn't say pressing was key, that is our supposed preferred method. I never agreed with starting Woltemade in midfield either. 

 

 

My point is - it's not a major reason for our slide.

 

Turds can only be so shiny.

[Holmesy]

1 hour ago, Shearergol said:

 

There's a teeny weeny amount of irony in your post, you know?

Go on....?

[Shearergol]

Just now, Holmesy said:

Go on....?

 

Well you tend to blame Howe for losses and praise the players for wins. Thought that much was obvious. No doubt you'll come back with the "I always give Howe credit" line, but we all know it's very rare.

[Holmesy]

1 minute ago, Shearergol said:

 

Well you tend to blame Howe for losses and praise the players for wins. Thought that much was obvious. No doubt you'll come back with the "I always give Howe credit" line, but we all know it's very rare.

Give me one example of when I've done that? For me, the buck stops with the manager. I certainly don't think any of our successes are despite Eddie, they're because of him. But I also believe the situation we find ourselves in this season are largely down to him too. He deserves the praise when we win but he also deserves the criticism when we lose and our approach or his lack of in-game changes are to blame. If it's a tight game and we lose, fair enough, losses happen in football. Likewise, If a player has an absolute calamity and costs us a game, that's not on Eddie at all but I can't remember the last time that happened. 

[Kid Icarus]

You can't remember the last time one of our losses was down to individual player error? Come on. 

 

 

Even then, I wouldn't be blaming the players instead of Howe. I'm very much of the opinion that those errors are also a result of the ridiculous schedule we've had. 

[Holmesy]

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

You can't remember the last time one of our losses was down to individual player error? Come on. 

 

 

Even then, I wouldn't be blaming the players instead of Howe. I'm very much of the opinion that those errors are also a result of the ridiculous schedule we've had. 

What am I, a filing cabinet of all of our performances? No, I can't remember the last time a loss was down to an individual player error. Can you, off the top of your head?
As I said, if it happens, it's on the player. That is not something Eddie can do anything about, it's just football.

[Kid Icarus]

10 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

What am I, a filing cabinet of all of our performances? No, I can't remember the last time a loss was down to an individual player error. Can you, off the top of your head?
As I said, if it happens, it's on the player. That is not something Eddie can do anything about, it's just football.

 

It's this season though, they all stick in your mind surely?

 

Easily yeah, most of the Barca goals were individual errors, the 1-1 at home was due to Thiaw's error in the last minute. There are like a dozen instances of it being down to Pope or Ramsdale errors this season. A fair few Trippier mistakes (Everton and Brentford being the last ones), Gordon has a few, Woltemade against Sunderland? Pope vs Marseille? Ramsdale vs Spurs?

 

There are loads. 

 

 

Edited April 2 by Kid Icarus

[Smal]

Pope's probably cost us about 12 points (and 2 extra fixtures in the CL) on his own from individual errors this season tbh  

 

 

Edited April 2 by Smal

[Holmesy]

15 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

It's this season though, they all stick in your mind surely?

 

Easily yeah, most of the Barca goals were individual errors, the 1-1 at home was due to Thiaw's error in the last minute. There are like a dozen instances of it being down to Pope or Ramsdale errors this season. A fair few Trippier mistakes (Everton and Brentford being the last ones), Gordon has a few, Woltemade against Sunderland? Pope vs Marseille? Ramsdale vs Spurs?

 

There are loads. 

 

 

 

My memory is not what it used to be i'm sad to say  Come to think of it, it's never been that great - always amazed when mates can rattle off games and results from distant world cups. 
I recall the Ramsey one against Barca but you can hardly say that cost us the game - we were already a couple of goals down by that point weren't we? I remember the Thiaw slip as well - that was unfortunate. Again though, these are unfortunate footballing incidents, not down to Eddie. 
 

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

My memory is not what it used to be i'm sad to say  Come to think of it, it's never been that great - always amazed when mates can rattle off games and results from distant world cups. 
I recall the Ramsey one against Barca but you can hardly say that cost us the game - we were already a couple of goals down by that point weren't we? I remember the Thiaw slip as well - that was unfortunate. Again though, these are unfortunate footballing incidents, not down to Eddie. 
 

 

I feel you like. I can remember stuff like that and who scored in some of our matches from years ago but I also regularly can't remember where I've put my hat.

 

Before the Ramsey mistake we had Hall going arse over tit, Burn playing everyone on, Thiaw getting caught in possession as last man (not punished), Gordon misplaced pass followed by Trippier getting caught and then giving away a pen, Ramsdale not coming for a cross (surprise), Thiaw getting bamboozled by a through ball that was straight at him and slipping, then Ramsey's mistake which admittedly was the most egregious. 

 

I agree they're not down to Eddie, I even hesitate to blame the players ('keepers aside) for the most part. 

[TRon]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

My point is - it's not a major reason for our slide.

 

Turds can only be so shiny.

 

I think expecting our players to perform at CL level is too much, and I also think describing them as turds is probably too harsh. 

 

We've had a hard season, but we can still finish top 6/7 which would be about right by my reckoning. 

 

 

Edited April 2 by TRon

[Holmesy]

10 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

I feel you like. I can remember stuff like that and who scored in some of our matches from years ago but I also regularly can't remember where I've put my hat.

 

Before the Ramsey mistake we had Hall going arse over tit, Burn playing everyone on, Thiaw getting caught in possession as last man (not punished), Gordon misplaced pass followed by Trippier getting caught and then giving away a pen, Ramsdale not coming for a cross (surprise), Thiaw getting bamboozled by a through ball that was straight at him and slipping, then Ramsey's mistake which admittedly was the most egregious. 

 

I agree they're not down to Eddie, I even hesitate to blame the players ('keepers aside) for the most part. 

 I can relate. 

[Geogaddi]

7 hours ago, 1881 said:

If Eddie Howe is sacked in the summer or resigns due to all the negativity and/or lack of support it will (imho) be one of the worst days in the history of the club. And as a fanbase we will rightly be viewed as one of the most ungrateful and deluded.

 

Yep then in a few years time when whoever takes over hasn't achieved anywhere near as much as Eddie we will get the whole " We never hounded Eddie out" from the same numpties that did hound him out .