Eddie Howe

[Cf]

Last season after the dust settled after the cup win if someone told you that next season people would be baying for blood after a below par season where:

 

- we reached the semi final of the league cup

- we made the last 16 of the CL

- we were 6 points off 6th (a generous way to look at it I know but shows the strength of the league this year)

 

You'd think people were mad surely? The man saved the team from relegation, rebuilt us into challenging for the CL spaces, won us our first major trophy in years, and 12 months after said trophy win people want him gone.

 

I understand there are issues and the squad needs a bit of a refresh but Howe has more than shown his credentials for this task.

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Cf said:

Last season after the dust settled after the cup win if someone told you that next season people would be baying for blood after a below par season where:

 

- we reached the semi final of the league cup

- we made the last 16 of the CL

- we were 6 points off 6th (a generous way to look at it I know but shows the strength of the league this year)

 

You'd think people were mad surely? The man saved the team from relegation, rebuilt us into challenging for the CL spaces, won us our first major trophy in years, and 12 months after said trophy win people want him gone.

 

I understand there are issues and the squad needs a bit of a refresh but Howe has more than shown his credentials for this task.

 

Yeah but have you heard The Frog Chorus by Paul McCartney?

 

Safety  for Bobbydazzla

[Wallsendmag]

8 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

Appreciate the bloke's had a remarkable season in Spain but I'd like to see what you said about him when we signed him? Not enough to go and google the cunt but interested, all the same 

 

I didn't know much about him. He was a make weight in the Anderson transfer wasn't he? Howe will have watched him in training though and mustn't have fancied him so he was shipped out to Spain where he's done very well and we brought in Ramsdale.

[TRon]

45 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

Goalkeepers and centre forwards are worth their weight in gold. One stops the opposition scoring and the other one does the damage down the other end. Having watched Sevilla around half a dozen times this season on the telly I'm fairly confident when I say had we not loaned them our goalkeeper and played him this season we'd have around 10 more points than we currently have. He's head and shoulders above these 2 planks we've had keeping goal for us this season.

 

 

Honestly my impression at the time was that Howe blanked Vlach purely because he was furious at the swap deal with Anderson. Which I don't blame him for tbh, but that came about because we had overspent our budget the previous 3 years. 

 

I might be way off the mark here of course, but it seems bizarre that he just refused to include him in the playing squad at all. 

[Cf]

And on the subject of PSR the more I think on it the more I can't help but think the reason we're struggling so much is because we dared to want to move onto the next level and PSR said no.

 

Obviously the complete shambles of the board last couple of years hasn't helped.

 

But if anything we aimed too high with our targets last season. It struct me last night watching the City game that we were previously linked with Khusanov and obviously there was the Guehi saga. Both now in the back line for City.  Mbeumo, Pedro, Ekitike, Trafford, Isak. All went to more "prestigious" clubs/clubs who could pay more.

 

In hindsight we'd have been better staying in our lane and shopping in the cheaper market hoping to uncover the next gems or players Eddie can train. But bear in mind of course that due to CL we've had minimal training time. But this approach just turns us into Brighton and the like.

 

We've done this to death but PSR is still a major factor of our problems here.

[Milburn]

16 minutes ago, Cf said:

Last season after the dust settled after the cup win if someone told you that next season people would be baying for blood after a below par season where:

 

- we reached the semi final of the league cup

- we made the last 16 of the CL

- we were 6 points off 6th (a generous way to look at it I know but shows the strength of the league this year)

 

You'd think people were mad surely? The man saved the team from relegation, rebuilt us into challenging for the CL spaces, won us our first major trophy in years, and 12 months after said trophy win people want him gone.

 

I understand there are issues and the squad needs a bit of a refresh but Howe has more than shown his credentials for this task.

I believe no one is denying what Howe has achieved. It’s been a huge turnaround.

 

But I think that argument focuses a bit too much on the headline achievements and not enough on what we’re actually seeing week to week.

 

It’s not just “one below-par season”. it’s the performances, the recurring issues, the dropped points from winning positions, and the lack of visible improvement over a longer period. And he’s spent lots of money. We’re one of the biggest spenders in the league during his periode here.

 

You can list semi-finals and last 16 runs, but at the same time we’re 14th, conceding soft goals regularly, and losing games we shouldn’t.

 

This isn’t about forgetting what he’s done. It’s about whether we’re still moving forward or starting to go backwards.

 

 

Edited April 20 by Milburn

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, Cf said:

And on the subject of PSR the more I think on it the more I can't help but think the reason we're struggling so much is because we dared to want to move onto the next level and PSR said no.

 

Obviously the complete shambles of the board last couple of years hasn't helped.

 

But if anything we aimed too high with our targets last season. It struct me last night watching the City game that we were previously linked with Khusanov and obviously there was the Guehi saga. Both now in the back line for City.  Mbeumo, Pedro, Ekitike, Trafford, Isak. All went to more "prestigious" clubs/clubs who could pay more.

 

In hindsight we'd have been better staying in our lane and shopping in the cheaper market hoping to uncover the next gems or players Eddie can train. But bear in mind of course that due to CL we've had minimal training time. But this approach just turns us into Brighton and the like.

 

We've done this to death but PSR is still a major factor of our problems here.

I agree - but we knew this from day one - I agree the approach from all of them has been short-sighted.  This always should have been Brighton on steroids - every player signed should’ve been with the view of flipping for a profit until revenues were high enough to compete - instead, management clung onto players until their value had shrunk or the player was gagging to leave.  It is what Mitchell meant two years ago when he said it wasn’t fit for purpose - it isn’t; it’s an amateurish approach which is massively high risk.  The scramble to get rid of players should’ve proved a lesson in June 2024 - it saw Staveley sacked, effectively - but we doubled-down. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think the main reason we hung onto players was that we already needed to make so many signings to build a PL squad. 
 

Agree we didn’t have a professional setup in place and that’s part of the reason why we didn’t let people go. We would’ve struggled to make the volume and quality of signings needed to replace everyone. 

 

 

Edited April 20 by AyeDubbleYoo

[r0cafella]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I think the main reason we hung onto players was that we already needed to make so many signings to build a PL squad. 

Yes but selling players frees up money to buy more players. 

 

As does avoiding inflated markets. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Just now, r0cafella said:

Yes but selling players frees up money to buy more players. 

 

As does avoiding inflated markets. 

True but I don’t think selling people like Wilson and Murphy would’ve brought that much money in. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I think the main reason we hung onto players was that we already needed to make so many signings to build a PL squad. 

That doesn’t stop recycling players, though.   With the way PSR worked until this season, you are incentivised to sell for profit.  We were never, ever going to hold onto players longterm - they either demand higher salaries if they’re insanely good (Isak) which we can’t pay, or we risk good performers who won’t attract massive wages elsewhere declining and having to replace them with nothing in the kitty (Almiron, Wilson, Willock, Joelinton …)

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

True but I don’t think selling people like Wilson and Murphy would’ve brought that much money in. 

If we sell at the right time it does, and obviously we have to be more pragmatic with what we are buying  us having an average wage of 100k per week is uff. Buying a 4th choice midfielder being 40m is also a bit mad.

 

 

[TheBrownBottle]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

True but I don’t think selling people like Wilson and Murphy would’ve brought that much money in. 

That’s why you sell ‘purples’ you’ve bought as a priority.  It’s what got Spurs from a mediocre midtable club to a member of the ‘Big Six’.  They sold every top player they had for megabucks

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

That’s why you sell ‘purples’ you’ve bought as a priority.  It’s what got Spurs from a mediocre midtable club to a member of the ‘Big Six’.  They sold every top player they had for megabucks

This does fall down though, we essentially did this last summer and look how it's turned out.  

 

I think adjusting the recruitment with the current set up might be hard. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I don’t really disagree. I just understand that if you’re new owners without a professional recruitment process in place yet, and people like Murphy and Joelinton are playing really well for you, it’s reasonable you might decide to keep those players around longer instead of gambling that you will be able to replace them. 
 

Long term I’m in favour of a much more strategic approach, it’s just we haven’t been in a position to do that as a club. 
 

I have hopes for this summer now Wilson has been in place for long enough to prepare. 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, r0cafella said:

This does fall down though, we essentially did this last summer and look how it's turned out.  

 

I think adjusting the recruitment with the current set up might be hard. 

We didn’t is the problem - we dithered and fannied about and eventually sold Isak.  You have selling as part of your strategy - we did everything we could not to before admitting (inevitable) defeat

[AyeDubbleYoo]

4 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

That’s why you sell ‘purples’ you’ve bought as a priority.  It’s what got Spurs from a mediocre midtable club to a member of the ‘Big Six’.  They sold every top player they had for megabucks

OK, but we’ve gone for relegation battlers to CL with our approach too. As I said though, broadly I agree we want to be more strategic going forward. 

[TRon]

11 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I agree - but we knew this from day one - I agree the approach from all of them has been short-sighted.  This always should have been Brighton on steroids - every player signed should’ve been with the view of flipping for a profit until revenues were high enough to compete - instead, management clung onto players until their value had shrunk or the player was gagging to leave.  It is what Mitchell meant two years ago when he said it wasn’t fit for purpose - it isn’t; it’s an amateurish approach which is massively high risk.  The scramble to get rid of players should’ve proved a lesson in June 2024 - it saw Staveley sacked, effectively - but we doubled-down. 

 

I said this a couple of days ago, but I'm still seeing Mitchell blamed for the summer's transfer fiasco. His timing of leaving obviously left us in the lurch, but he clearly wasn't on the same page with Howe on transfer policy. Howe won that battle for the trust of the hierarchy, and here we are. 

 

That's not to say Mitchell was the answer either, he might truly have been a charlatan. But maybe he knew his job better than he was given credit for. 

[r0cafella]

Just now, TheBrownBottle said:

We didn’t is the problem - we dithered and fannied about and eventually sold Isak.  You have selling as part of your strategy - we did everything we could not to before admitting (inevitable) defeat

That part is true but I don't think it alters who we went for? I guess the arguement is it encourages better forward planning. 

 

But even then, we are really bad at forward planning, all of these bairns we've brought in don't seem to have much of a development plan  

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

I said this a couple of days ago, but I'm still seeing Mitchell blamed for the summer's transfer fiasco. His timing of leaving obviously left us in the lurch, but he clearly wasn't on the same page with Howe on transfer policy. Howe won that battle for the trust of the hierarchy, and here we are. 

 

That's not to say Mitchell was the answer either, he might truly have been a charlatan. But maybe he knew his job better than he was given credit for. 

But I mean, Howe is arguably our best ever manager and has been the most important individual in the recent history of the club. It doesn’t mean we were wrong to keep Howe and replace Mitchell. 

[GWN]

21 hours ago, Chicken Dancer said:

Since we played wolves in Jan we have the same amount of points as them. Ouch. 

 

 

And backs my claim that we'd be relegated with Saturdays mob 

[Cf]

26 minutes ago, Milburn said:

I believe no one is denying what Howe has achieved. It’s been a huge turnaround.

 

But I think that argument focuses a bit too much on the headline achievements and not enough on what we’re actually seeing week to week.

 

It’s not just “one below-par season”. it’s the performances, the recurring issues, the dropped points from winning positions, and the lack of visible improvement over a longer period. And he’s spent lots of money. We’re one of the biggest spenders in the league during his periode here.

 

You can list semi-finals and last 16 runs, but at the same time we’re 14th, conceding soft goals regularly, and losing games we shouldn’t.

 

This isn’t about forgetting what he’s done. It’s about whether we’re still moving forward or starting to go backwards.

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to downplay the fact we have been poor, especially in the league, this season. But performances and recurring issues etc result in "a below par season".

 

The amount of money spent I think is something of a red herring. We had to spend so much money due to years and years of neglect under the Ashley era. We had a squad on paper worth basically fuck all. This necessitated spending lots of money just to get us back to par. I think most would accept that during his time here Howe has overachieved with what he has had. Just picking the headline figure of what we've spent does a disservice to it imo and lets Ashley off the hook.

[Chicken Dancer]

PSR is obviously designed in a certain way that will protect the 'elite' and keep the challengers in their place like good little boys.

 

However, we sold our golden goose for a huge sum of money, coupled with the fact we hadn't spent in a few windows so we had an opportunity to at least bridge the gap. We spaffed the chance quite handsomely.

 

I do rate Thiaw and Ramsey who most would agree are the two from last summer who are OK - nothing more than that. However, even they were never going to be the type of player to move the needle and bridge that gap. I'm a Newcastle fan firstly but I do watch a fair bit of football and even I could have told you that when we signed them, though granted hadn't seen Thiaw apart from the odd CL game.

 

For context, the likes of Pedro & Ekitike would have definitely bridged the gap a lot more than the players we ended up with, but I also doubt Pedro/Ekitike would have helped us from squandering numerous points from winning positions, for looking like a defensive shambles every single time we're on the pitch or filled the gaping holes between our midfield and everyone else. Them continuous issues are on Howe and the coaching staff - we're seeing the same things happen in April with 5 games left that were happening in Autumn. It's been a really bad season from a coaching perspective, no doubt about it.

 

Howe probably never wanted Woltemade but there was no excuse to persist with him in CM when it just wasn't ever looking close to working.

[GWN]

What happened to pressing? We have stopped it , stand still in football and you get left behind these days and we are stagnant .

 

Howe , i love him for everything he has done, clearly the best in my lifetime, but things at are piss poor and the bucks stops with him im afraid.

 

 

 

 

[Holmesy]

32 minutes ago, Cf said:

Last season after the dust settled after the cup win if someone told you that next season people would be baying for blood after a below par season where:

 

- we reached the semi final of the league cup

- we made the last 16 of the CL

- we were 6 points off 6th (a generous way to look at it I know but shows the strength of the league this year)

 

You'd think people were mad surely? The man saved the team from relegation, rebuilt us into challenging for the CL spaces, won us our first major trophy in years, and 12 months after said trophy win people want him gone.

 

I understand there are issues and the squad needs a bit of a refresh but Howe has more than shown his credentials for this task.

He hasn't shown he has the credentials to re-motivate a group of players who are clearly not engaged.
He hasn't shown his credentials to adapt to our system being found out.
He hasn't shown his credentials to freshen things up when they go stale.
He hasn't shown his credentials to improve his in-game management.
He hasn't shown his credentials to effectively manage a dual front campaign.

He has shown his credentials to save us from relegation, compete above our level playing plan A for the first 3 seasons, and be competitive in the cups. Every manager has his strengths and his weaknesses. Until this season we had only seen Eddie's strengths. This season we have seen his weaknesses and limitations, but he has openly admitted that he is not prepared to work on his weaknesses - same system, likely the same coaches, same ideas going forward. Exactly the same way it played out at Bournemouth.

You're right, if 12 months ago someone would have said this would be the situation no one would have believed you. But the reality is that this is the situation. And the majority of people are not even referencing the results when they say we should move on from him, they're referencing the performances, the same broken record, the appalling in-game management and the fact he will not deviate from his plan A only approach, despite plan A no longer working. If the fact he has essentially openly said 'more of plan A' next season doesn't worry you, I don't know what will. 

If we had seen 3 seasons of tactical flexibility, changing games with clever in-game management and a willingness to learn, evolve and adapt, i'd be with you, i think we all would. But we haven't and probably won't, which is where this feeling of needing to move on is coming from.