Eddie Howe

[Holmesy]

15 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I'd agree and disagree, our initial targets looked decent. Trafford, Huijsen, Ramsey, Mbuemo and Delap look good on paper, albeit potentially unrealistic. Back ups previously bid for have included Guehi, El Khannouss and Pedro. Again, not bad.

 

The issue is we moved onto a second choice stopgap in goal, a third CB, a second choice RW, along with sixth and seventh choice strikers (at which point it was panic stations).

 

Elanga aside, who seemed pretty high up the list (and I kind of get why), last summer always struck me as a failure in execution more than anything else.

 

I totally understand and agree the profile of players may have been too ambitious given the wages we can offer, but I wouldn't call it a scouting failure.

Who was first choice RW? I thought it was always Elanga

[The Prophet]

Just now, Holmesy said:

Who was first choice RW? I thought it was always Elanga

 

Mbeumo wasn't it?

[Holmesy]

2 minutes ago, KetsbaiaIsBald said:

People love to use the Alex Ferguson near sacking as an example of why you should stick with a manager.  Off the top of my head I cant think of many more that have gone on to success after having this dip and pressure.  Genuine question are there many other cases?  What comes to my mind is when teams stick in the summer it usually follows a sacking in the winter.  I think we should probably keep Howe but my main concerns is that if things do not go 100% at the start of next season we end up in a negative spin and we lose another season.  

 

 

 

Can’t think of any either. And I think it usually comes down to a number of factors - things get stale, players get bored/resentful, the same voices don’t carry the same weight, tactics get found out, players heads get turned, for certain foreign players, the lure of home becomes greater etc.

It’s why sentiment like credit is the bank is so risky and why ruthlessness is so rife in football. 

All we can hope is that Eddie can buck the trend but if those factors mentioned have contributed to our demise, rather than the mitigating factors that many on here cite, it’s a very difficult ship to turn around. 

[Holmesy]

6 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Mbeumo wasn't it?

Ah, of course. 👍🏻

[TRon]

15 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Mbeumo wasn't it?

 

He was never a realistic option though since he had already said he wanted Man U over us. 

[Hhtoon]

1 hour ago, Holmesy said:

You say that's not a Howe problem but I don't think any of us know for sure - there definitely seems to have been a PL bias, which has had us paying premiums. 

Many of us have been championing a higher risk profile and targeting younger players with potential, and the noises from the club suggest we're going that way, which Eddie (whether reluctantly or not has agreed to).

The truth is, we don't know whether previously Eddie has dictated the scouting strategy or it was set above him but I would lean toward the former. Regardless, I think the new direction is the best for the club. 

 

I'm not really going to disagree with you as we don't really know who did what.

What I will say is that i don't personally believe Howe will have had the ability/time to scout effectively overseas so of course his list is going to be PL biased. 

 

I don't think Eddie is going to object to overseas players if they are the calibre of Isak, Bruno, Tonali (?) And Ekitike. Someone needs to find these players though and its my opinion that responsibility sits elsewhere. 

 

But appreciate others have a different view! 

[Myleftboot]

Is it set in stone he’s staying or is it just a journalist’s rumour?

[Dr Venkman]

55 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

None of them have been a roaring success either. Ultimately it's through scouting that identifies the players that are brought into the football club.

For the money we paid, Thiaw has been a roaring success.

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

Is it set in stone he’s staying or is it just a journalist’s rumour?

 

Just what's in the title.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

52 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Mbeumo wasn't it?

 

Maybe, but we put a bid in for Elanga deadline day 2024 and the links continues second half of last season so he was at worst choice 1.5

 

Even with Wissa the first bid went in pretty much the same time as Ekitike so we must have been looking at him early on the summer, even if as the Wilson replacement.

[Wallsendmag]

13 minutes ago, Dr Venkman said:

For the money we paid, Thiaw has been a roaring success.

 

I wouldn't go as far as being a roaring success, he hasn't been a patch on what Botman was like when he first arrived before injuries became a problem, but he's been the best of the new signings.

 

Would probably give him a 6/10 for the season. Only Bruno and Hall would score a 7.

[Holmesy]

It's nuts when you look at how far last summer has set us back. I'm not assigning any blame and it's not an Eddie bashing post, I was just thinking about it now - it's water under the bridge anyway. £250m spent and not one of the players has improved us. Thiaw has done well but any better than Schar would've done? It's just so much money to flush down the toilet for a team already hampered by PSR. How many more windows will there be when we can spend that kind of money?

We haven't even stood still because those players that needed replacing still need replacing and others are a year older, so we're net a lot worse off.

Can't help thinking we would've been better off just signing Jackson to get us through this season and muddling by, keeping the rest of the budget for this summer when we had the proper infrastructure in place. Obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing but we've left ourselves in a right old pickle.

[Wilson]

39 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

He was never a realistic option though since he had already said he wanted Man U over us. 

 

Before we added him to our want list? 

 

'Never a realistic option' sounds a bit defeatist.  Unrealistic doesn't mean unattainable. 

 

As an example to my point; Bruno, Sandro and Trippier wouldn't be here if we just didn't bother adding 'unrealistic' players to our list of targets. 

 

 

 

 

 

[LFEE]

6 hours ago, bobbydazzla said:

Let’s go like for like 
 

Spurs away

Palace at home 

West Ham away

3rd round of the league cup 

 

 

Like for like with who? Wissa was the replacement Isak.

 

So as I asked where would be if we had 12 more points? Or even meet half way and 6 more points?

[TRon]

1 minute ago, Wilson said:

 

Before we added him to our want list? 

 

'Never a realistic option' sounds a bit defeatist.  Unrealistic doesn't mean unattainable. 

 

As an example to my point; Bruno, Sandro and Trippier wouldn't be here if we just didn't bother adding 'unrealistic' players to our list of targets. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok so he was realistic until Man U showed their hand. Then we moved back to Elanga who had been on our radar for more than a year. 

 

We are always going to be second choice if a cartel club comes in. No shame in it, that's just the way the world works. That's why we are changing our approach this summer by all accounts. 

[bobbydazzla]

19 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Like for like with who? Wissa was the replacement Isak.

 

So as I asked where would be if we had 12 more points? Or even meet half way and 6 more points?

Like for like with the games in which Isak scored his goals for Liverpool.

 

Let’s imagine the same goals he scored for them, he would have scored for us. Just to keep it aligned with what he actually achieved this season. 
 

So if we add an Isak goal to the NUFC result, in the same 4 x games when Isak scored for LFC, we get the following: 
 

- Spurs away we still would have won.

- West Ham away we still would have got beat.

- Palace home we still would have won.
- FUCKING BRADFORD we still would have won.

 

Conclusion: Isak’s goals he actually scored, would have made no difference at all to our season. 

 

 

 

Edited May 4 by bobbydazzla

[TRon]

25 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

It's nuts when you look at how far last summer has set us back. I'm not assigning any blame and it's not an Eddie bashing post, I was just thinking about it now - it's water under the bridge anyway. £250m spent and not one of the players has improved us. Thiaw has done well but any better than Schar would've done? It's just so much money to flush down the toilet for a team already hampered by PSR. How many more windows will there be when we can spend that kind of money?

We haven't even stood still because those players that needed replacing still need replacing and others are a year older, so we're net a lot worse off.

Can't help thinking we would've been better off just signing Jackson to get us through this season and muddling by, keeping the rest of the budget for this summer when we had the proper infrastructure in place. Obviously hindsight is a wonderful thing but we've left ourselves in a right old pickle.

 

 

Howe hasn't shown that he is about possession football, and it seems like we are going to be buying more technical players, if less proven in the future. He's not someone who likes to introduce younger players quickly either so not sure how that will work given we are looking at younger profile players now rather than paying top whack for PL proven. 

 

Honestly think we've gone with Eddie because that's the safest option. I can understand it, but I do fear we are just kicking the can down the road ultimately. Anyway, next season will be interesting, but I think achieving any type of European qualification should be considered a success. I don't see where we get a top class striker who could fire us into the CL positions, and I don't think Woltemade or Wissa will be much more successful next time round either if they are still here. 

[Holmesy]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

 

Howe hasn't shown that he is about possession football, and it seems like we are going to be buying more technical players, if less proven in the future. He's not someone who likes to introduce younger players quickly either so not sure how that will work given we are looking at younger profile players now rather than paying top whack for PL proven. 

 

Honestly think we've gone with Eddie because that's the safest option. I can understand it, but I do fear we are just kicking the can down the road ultimately. Anyway, next season will be interesting, but I think achieving any type of European qualification should be considered a success. I don't see where we get a top class striker who could fire us into the CL positions, and I don't think Woltemade or Wissa will be much more successful next time round either if they are still here. 

It’s the big conundrum isn’t it. We’ll just have to see.

It’s the right call going younger/cheaper and you can only assume Eddie has given some assurances he’ll integrate them into the first team but old habits die hard, hence Burn, Willock, Murphy and Joelinton being in the starting lineup on Saturday. 
 

Maybe we do a Moneyball and sell them all so he can’t play them and has to adapt. 

[LFEE]

12 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

Like for like with the games in which Isak scored his goals for Liverpool.

 

Let’s imagine the same goals he scored for them, he would have scored for us. Just to keep it aligned with what he actually achieved this season. 
 

So if we add an Isak goal to the NUFC result, in the same 4 x games when Isak scored for LFC, we get the following: 
 

- Spurs away we still would have won.

- West Ham away we still would have got beat.

- Palace home we still would have won.
- FUCKING BRADFORD we still would have won.

 

Conclusion: Isak’s goals he actually scored, would have made no difference at all to our season. 

 

 

 

 

If that’s the point you want to make then fair enough 

 

I’d say he scores Wissa’s 2 and makes the difference against Wolves away and Spurs at home for example so there’s 4 points 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

 

Could even say he takes Wissa’s chance first leg of Barcelona and we go on to win that game and the momentum alone gains us extra points in the league.

 

All mute points though I know.

 

[bobbydazzla]

10 minutes ago, LFEE said:

If that’s the point you want to make then fair enough 

 

I’d say he scores Wissa’s 2 and makes the difference against Wolves away and Spurs at home for example so there’s 4 points 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

 

Could even say he takes Wissa’s chance first leg of Barcelona and we go on to win that game and the momentum alone gains us extra points in the league.

 

All mute points though I know.

 

So Isak’s 4 x goals this season would only have occurred at NUFC in games where an extra goal would have given us 3 points ?

 

Nah, not having that like. 
 

Either go like for like, or not at all. 
 

Might as well just say he could have got all 4 against Carrierbag away and made absolutely no difference to our domestic season whatsoever. 

 

 

Edited May 4 by bobbydazzla

[LFEE]

8 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

So Isak’s 4 x goals this season would only have occurred at NUFC in games where an extra goal would have given us 3 points ?

 

Nah, not having that like. 
 

Either go like for like, or not at all. 
 

Might as well just say he could have got all 4 against Carrierbag away and made absolutely no difference to our domestic season whatsoever. 

 

 

 

Was just thinking of games where I thought we missed him or could’ve been the difference. Plenty to choose from. 
 

Yes you could argue that. However we’d not of played the extra two games against Qarabag if we’d beaten or even drawn against Barcelona when he missed the big chance. Could’ve went on a won the Carabao again if he scores the similar chance missed by Wissa… and if pushing it further the Gordon chance early in the second leg.

 

All ifs and buts we both know. Just saying even with limited availability I think we’d of been better off with him than what Wissa has given.

[bobbydazzla]

2 minutes ago, LFEE said:

Was just thinking of games where I thought we missed him or could’ve been the difference. Plenty to choose from. 
 

Yes you could argue that. However we’d not of played the extra two games against Qarabag if we’d beaten or even drawn against Barcelona when he missed the big chance. Could’ve went on a won the Carabao again if he scores the similar chance missed by Wissa… and if pushing it further the Gordon chance early in the second leg.

 

All ifs and buts we both know. Just saying even with limited availability I think we’d of been better off with him than what Wissa has given.

We’d be better off with my Nanna leading the line for NUFC than what Wissa’s given 

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, TRon said:

 

 

Howe hasn't shown that he is about possession football, and it seems like we are going to be buying more technical players, if less proven in the future. He's not someone who likes to introduce younger players quickly either so not sure how that will work given we are looking at younger profile players now rather than paying top whack for PL proven. 

 

Honestly think we've gone with Eddie because that's the safest option. I can understand it, but I do fear we are just kicking the can down the road ultimately. Anyway, next season will be interesting, but I think achieving any type of European qualification should be considered a success. I don't see where we get a top class striker who could fire us into the CL positions, and I don't think Woltemade or Wissa will be much more successful next time round either if they are still here. 

 

Wish I had a pound everytime I saw the technical player myth.

[Holmesy]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

 

Wish I had a pound everytime I saw the technical player myth.

I think it depends what you mean by technical players. You could argue that Barnes, Gordon, Tonali, Hall, Thiaw are, Bruno definitely is and Isak definitely was but it's more how those technical players are deployed. Asking technical players to play a running game renders the 'myth' wrong technically (excuse the pun) but it doesn't make the point wrong in reality. We could sign peak Ronaldinho but if we're asking him to play a high tempo, high press running game, we're not maximising his technical attributes. 

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Wish I had a pound everytime I saw the technical player myth.

 

We bought Elanga. We play Murphy over Elanga. We played Burn over Hall because of height. We play Osula ahead of Woltemade. 

 

All of these can be justified by the result on Saturday, but it doesn't scream technique is what Eddie values most.