Eddie Howe

[Gallowgate Toon]

I think Klopp is one of the best but he finished below us with some genuinely elite players at his disposal, like, and he's had plenty of of troughs in his managerial career. Not a given that he'd have replicated it. 

 

TAA was getting routinely rinsed last season until he was moved into his wanky midfield hybrid role for the last quarter of the campaign. Would've been interesting to see the outcry about that on here had it been us.

 

Actually, Liverpool last year are a good comparison to us now. Dodgy defensive performances, slow as midfield, many comments that they'd lost their energy,

[gjohnson]

Just now, Gallowgate Toon said:

I think Klopp is one of the best but he finished below us with some genuinely elite players at his disposal, like, and he's had plenty of of troughs in his managerial career. Not a given that he'd have replicated it. 

 

TAA was getting routinely rinsed last season until he was moved into his wanky midfield hybrid role for the last quarter of the campaign. Would've been interesting to see the outcry about that on here had it been us.

 

Actually, Liverpool last year are a good comparison to us now. Dodgy defensive performances, slow as midfield, many comments that they'd lost their energy,

Not a good comparison really. They saw they had a weakness creeping in and addressed it....we attempted it but it went badly wrong with Tonali, and to an extent Barnes, then spending what was left on players for the future who despite looking good can barely get a look in

[The College Dropout]

23 minutes ago, Beren said:

 

The forum is pretty polarised in places, with many keen to paint opposing views in the most histrionic light but:

 

- admitting Howe is struggling this season over a prolonged period =/= you want to pull over the car and kick him out at the first opportunity
 

- recognising the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club =/= you believe he is the adopted Geordie Pep Guardiola

 

 

I recognise the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club. But there are multiple posters on this very thread trying to claim his career's achievements are comparable to Jurgen Klopp.

 

24 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I'm not forcing it and never have, I only mentioned it because it was talked about above. I have no idea what kind of career trajectory Howe is on. So much depends on ability, but also luck and circumstance, it's impossible to tell.

 

I guess that leads into my second point though. Dortmund are comfortably Germany's second biggest club. Klopp could have easily been sacked or hounded out. In his second season they had Champions League football in their hands, but threw it away in the final two games of the season. If he had, he might not have been the manager he is today.

Why would he have been sacked or hounded it? He took a club that finished 13th the previous season and 9th the year before to 6th, 5th, league winners, then league and cup double and a CL final. That's 4 years of straight progression.

 

The Klopp comparison doesn't work. They do not have the same career or track record (they have similarities in coaching style).

29 minutes ago, STM said:

Klopp wasn't elite either... until he was. 

 

Completely ruling out the idea of managers improving, growing or being given the opportunity to prove they are elite. I'm sure there was a German version TCD on a Mainz forum way back when, harping on about Klopp and the errors he'd made.

 

 

 

I'm not completely ruling it out. I don't have "Howe is elite" as my assumption of his abilities as many here do because I don't think there's evidence for it.

 

I rate him, I think he'll end the season strongly and think we can do very well next season with him at the helm. I'm just not convinced he's the next Fergie or Klopp. This is a balanced take.. it isn't if you think he's the best English manager since Bryan Clough. 

 

 

[Geogaddi]

38 minutes ago, Menace said:

Would Klopp have got top 4 with our team last year?

Klopp couldn’t even get a better Liverpool squad in the top 4 last year,  so he would have had no chance getting our squad in the top 4, what Eddie achieved last season getting our squad into the top 4 was miraculous really. It has been shown this season just how much we over achieved last year and that cup draw last night sums up the luck Eddie has had this season. 

 

 

Edited February 29 by Geogaddi

[Gallowgate Toon]

 

4 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

Not a good comparison really. They saw they had a weakness creeping in and addressed it....we attempted it but it went badly wrong with Tonali, and to an extent Barnes, then spending what was left on players for the future who despite looking good can barely get a look in

You mean they didn't recruit well enough in summer '22 and rather than having a manager be a magician who could make it work they needed another couple of windows to get what they needed?

 

They went from 92 points in 21/22 to 67 in 22/23 despite spending massively on a striker, like. 

[KaKa]

42 minutes ago, STM said:

Klopp wasn't elite either... until he was. 

 

Completely ruling out the idea of managers improving, growing or being given the opportunity to prove they are elite. I'm sure there was a German version TCD on a Mainz forum way back when, harping on about Klopp and the errors he'd made.

 

 

 

 

Exactly! They all had their tough moments they had to come through, and there would have absolutely been those saying they weren't up to it at the time.

 

Ferguson was one loss from the sack at one point at Man Utd, with fans chanting against him.

 

These are his first few seasons at the club, as big as it is, and having spent money on decent players at the time ...

 

11th

2nd

12th

13th

6th

2nd

And then ultimately winning his first title.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Exactly! They all had their tough moments they had to come through, and there would have absolutely been those saying they weren't up to it at the time.

 

Ferguson was one loss from the sack at one point at Man Utd, with fans chanting against him.

 

These are his first few seasons at the club, as big as it is, and having spent money on decent players at the time ...

 

11th

2nd

12th

13th

6th

2nd

And then ultimately winning his first title.

Famously saved by winning the FA Cup when they finished 13th, of course - no small feat, to which he added English football’s first European trophy post-Heysel the season after, again an impressive feat for an English club at the time.

 

Ferguson also had an extraordinary track record at Aberdeen, so he did have something to point to in terms of quantifiable success - no-one outside the Old Firm has come close since in Scotland, and no Scottish club has won a European trophy post-Ferguson (and Aberdeen beating Real Madrid in a European final was a genuinely impressive achievement). 

[KaKa]

18 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

I think Klopp is one of the best but he finished below us with some genuinely elite players at his disposal, like, and he's had plenty of of troughs in his managerial career. Not a given that he'd have replicated it. 

 

TAA was getting routinely rinsed last season until he was moved into his wanky midfield hybrid role for the last quarter of the campaign. Would've been interesting to see the outcry about that on here had it been us.

 

Actually, Liverpool last year are a good comparison to us now. Dodgy defensive performances, slow as midfield, many comments that they'd lost their energy,

 

Some great points here man.

 

The Trent getting rinsed defensively was such a major topic of discussion in football every week and he never changed it, even though it kept costing them.

 

In the market he also kept over looking the midfield area to the chagrin of Liverpool supporters, and spending on more and more attacking players where they were pretty well stocked.

 

People would absolutely have been completely losing their heads over these things.

[Guest reefatoon]

58 minutes ago, 54 said:

You're doing that thing again where you think your opinion is absolute and the only correct one.

It’s fucking infuriating. Talks at people not to them. That sense of superiority is lifting and so misplaced. 

[SUPERTOON]

 

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Famously saved by winning the FA Cup when they finished 13th, of course - no small feat, to which he added English football’s first European trophy post-Heysel the season after, again an impressive feat for an English club at the time.

 

Ferguson also had an extraordinary track record at Aberdeen, so he did have something to point to in terms of quantifiable success - no-one outside the Old Firm has come close since in Scotland, and no Scottish club has won a European trophy post-Ferguson (and Aberdeen beating Real Madrid in a European final was a genuinely impressive achievement). 

 

Regardless of his achievements at Aberdeen, finishing bottom half three times in those early years at Man Utd who were spending money at the time and were nowhere near anything like what we had become under Mike Ashley, would not have been tolerated nowadays. No chance. 

 

He would have been deemed 'not elite' and sent back to Scotland.

[SUPERTOON]

38 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

That has to be a yes. Probably pushing a title challenge till the last few games. Yes EH is good, but he seems to be a bit slow on picking up obvious errors this season...especially with to Burn who every other team seems to have sussed as the weakest link. Yes we've had injuries, but a large amount of points lost have come down to farcical errors from players who weren't making them last year. When we have brought others in they play like strangers, which suggests a certain amount of favouritism in the squad in that the 'not first 11' don't have a clue how to join in properly with any routines we presumably work on in training

You can’t honestly believe any manager would have had us going for the title last season ?

[The College Dropout]

34 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

We don’t know if Howe will become an ‘elite’ manager or not - we can hope he will, and there are a lot of positive signs that he can, as well as some negative signs that he won’t.  The point seems moot to me until he joins that bracket - and we’re the best chance he’s likely to get of breaking into it.

 

He could well ‘grow’ with the club, so I totally understand fans being attracted to that as a notion.  I honestly don’t care too much either way - if Howe is here in five years’ time, it’s because he’s successful and won things.  If he isn’t, it’s because he wasn’t.  I just want to see us win things, and I don’t really care about the narrative around it.  My dad is 70 soon and he was a boy when we last won a trophy, and wasn’t born when we last won a domestic one.  That’s a ridiculous state of affairs, frankly - Howe has the chance at the moment to write himself into our history books forever (the manager who breaks the duck will always be remembered, whatever follows it).  I hope he takes it - I do like him as a person and as a football man.  If he doesn’t, he doesn’t. 

I agree with all of this. I think it warps people's perspectives of what is happening when you assume Howe is the next Klopp and don't entertain the idea that he might be closer to the next Brendan Rodgers (a manager with a great career I would add).

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, KaKa said:

 

Regardless of his achievements at Aberdeen, finishing bottom half three times in those early years at Man Utd who were spending money at the time and were nowhere near anything like what we had become under Mike Ashley, would not have been tolerated nowadays. No chance. 

 

He would have been deemed 'not elite' and sent back to Scotland.

You’re right, he definitely wouldn’t have survived in the present either - and he wouldn’t deserve to in the present era.

 

But there wasn’t a great gulf in quality between England and Scotland in football terms in the ‘80s and early ‘90s.  It wasn’t a great ‘step-up’.  They were major achievements to do what he did with Aberdeen.  Most football fans in the UK back then were as aware of Scottish football as they were English football.  Having a track record of winning major trophies as he had at Aberdeen absolutely bought him time - as did the common knowledge that Man Utd’s squad were a bunch of pissheads.  Winning the Scottish League wouldn’t buy you time today. 

[STM]

I think the biggest mistake is assuming he has to be like anyone.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

I agree with all of this. I think it warps people's perspectives of what is happening when you assume Howe is the next Klopp and don't entertain the idea that he might be closer to the next Brendan Rodgers (a manager with a great career I would add).

Yeah, it could be either, couldn’t it.  I think Howe is clearly an excellent manager - no idea if he’ll be able to take the next step.  Happy for him to get some more time to show if he can. 

[TheBrownBottle]

8 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

 

Not sure who the source or hack behind the story is - very annoying when they don’t just link to the article.

 

I mean, there could be some truth in it, in terms of the club would be ridiculously naive and ill-prepared if it didn’t have an ongoing shortlist of replacements for all positions at the club.  That doesn’t mean Howe is on the verge of the sack. 

[jack j]

43 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

We don’t know if Howe will become an ‘elite’ manager or not - we can hope he will, and there are a lot of positive signs that he can, as well as some negative signs that he won’t.  The point seems moot to me until he joins that bracket - and we’re the best chance he’s likely to get of breaking into it.

 

He could well ‘grow’ with the club, so I totally understand fans being attracted to that as a notion.  I honestly don’t care too much either way - if Howe is here in five years’ time, it’s because he’s successful and won things.  If he isn’t, it’s because he wasn’t.  I just want to see us win things, and I don’t really care about the narrative around it.  My dad is 70 soon and he was a boy when we last won a trophy, and wasn’t born when we last won a domestic one.  That’s a ridiculous state of affairs, frankly - Howe has the chance at the moment to write himself into our history books forever (the manager who breaks the duck will always be remembered, whatever follows it).  I hope he takes it - I do like him as a person and as a football man.  If he doesn’t, he doesn’t. 

From a personal point of view I'd like to win a trophy with a likeable and relatable bloke like Eddie howe rather than some arsehole like ten haag

 

I never get the whole players and managers come and go thing.

I'm attached more to certain players and managers than a badge

 

Mebbes that's just me

[Fezzle]

11 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

 

That was rubbished nearly 24 hours ago

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Regardless of his achievements at Aberdeen, finishing bottom half three times in those early years at Man Utd who were spending money at the time and were nowhere near anything like what we had become under Mike Ashley, would not have been tolerated nowadays. No chance. 

 

He would have been deemed 'not elite' and sent back to Scotland.

You can't. His achievements at Aberdeen were akin to what Klopp achieved at Dortmund, what Mourinho did at Porto, what Rafa dad Valencia. Maybe greater. It marked him as likely the best British manager of his generation and all the top clubs in England wanted him.

 

Without the proven and sustained track record of success at the elite level at Aberdeen, Ferguson gets sacked at Man Utd. But he had pedigree at the highest level.

 

And this is a 40-year-old example. No manager will be given that time again and Howe certainly won't. But managers with proven track-records will continue to get more leeway than those that don't. For obvious reasons.

[SUPERTOON]

1 minute ago, Fezzle said:

That was rubbished nearly 24 hours ago

By the same source who are reporting we are interested 😂 how bad is football journalism.

[KaKa]

3 minutes ago, STM said:

I think the biggest mistake is assuming he has to be like anyone.

 

Yeah, exactly, and so can we at least see how he responds next season to get a much clearer idea? Why anyone is nitpicking over every little thing and coming with these suggestions he's not up to it is really beyond me.

 

Even 'elite' Klopp, as good as he is and as proven, was still making similar mistakes just last season.

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, jack j said:

From a personal point of view I'd like to win a trophy with a likeable and relatable bloke like Eddie howe rather than some arsehole like ten haag

 

I never get the whole players and managers come and go thing.

I'm attached more to certain players and managers than a badge

 

Mebbes that's just me

I don’t think it’s an invalid position to hold mate - honestly, some will take your view re attachment to players / managers and some might be more in line with my view.  Just the way these things normally work - I think they’re both defensible and normal positions to hold.  I think your view is completely relatable - but for me, the badge is all that really matters. 

[Fezzle]

1 minute ago, SUPERTOON said:

By the same source who are reporting we are interested 😂 how bad is football journalism.

Its yesterdays source rehashed by that transfer knacka isnt it? Sport Bild made up the original rumour but aye its a ridiculous profession where you can invent any old shite and get paid Yet it still has loads on here and social media frothing at the links daily

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

56 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

That has to be a yes. Probably pushing a title challenge till the last few games. Yes EH is good, but he seems to be a bit slow on picking up obvious errors this season...especially with to Burn who every other team seems to have sussed as the weakest link. Yes we've had injuries, but a large amount of points lost have come down to farcical errors from players who weren't making them last year. When we have brought others in they play like strangers, which suggests a certain amount of favouritism in the squad in that the 'not first 11' don't have a clue how to join in properly with any routines we presumably work on in training

Yet he couldn’t do it with Liverpool? 

 

Im being flippant.