mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 I would prefer it . Maybe a nice divisive poll should be taken? i think we could certainly do with dialling the division up to 11 personally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NobbyOhNobby Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Piatek - 6 yard box striker. Pointless in our system Giroud - perfect for our system. But why didn't we just fucking buy Rondon?! Murray - fuck off. Would sign Bill Murray, at least he'd be funny Batshuayi - can't hold the ball up, therefore pointless Based on this stunning analysis, giroud is the only one of the linked players who actually fits how we attempt to play. We need a target man who can run, who holds on to the ball and brings others into play. Basically Rondon. With that sort of player in the side, Joe Lintons can then play wide in a three - a position he actually knows how to play. We'll sign will grigg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Piatek - 6 yard box striker. Pointless in our system Giroud - perfect for our system. But why didn't we just fucking buy Rondon?! Murray - fuck off. Would sign Bill Murray, at least he'd be funny Batshuayi - can't hold the ball up, therefore pointless Based on this stunning analysis, giroud is the only one of the linked players who actually fits how we attempt to play. We need a target man who can run, who holds on to the ball and brings others into play. Basically Rondon. With that sort of player in the side, Joe Lintons can then play wide in a three - a position he actually knows how to play. Good breakdown tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 i remain unconvinced that "our system", such as it is, is all about booting it up to a big man when ASM and Almiron are both on the pitch, if that's the road you go down i think you take away ASM's impact in particular unless the argument is being made that we should be going to a giroud type up top and playing it more direct, but that's different i think Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 i remain unconvinced that "our system", such as it is, is all about booting it up to a big man when ASM and Almiron are both on the pitch, if that's the road you go down i think you take away ASM's impact in particular unless the argument is being made that we should be going to a giroud type up top and playing it more direct, but that's different i think We defend so deep and when we win the ball back we are not good enough to play the ball out from those areas and so we usually play a long ball up to the striker to relieve pressure. A strong target man that can get possession of the ball and drop it off to either ASM or Miggy would be what would help improve things, is what people are thinking. Yes occasionally we'll be able to get the ball straight to ASM and Miggy to transition if those options are available, and so it would be a mixture of both. At the moment though, if we can't find ASM or Miggy to advance the ball with their dribbling, we just end up punting it long for it to come straight back at us and the pressure builds and builds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NobbyOhNobby Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 i remain unconvinced that "our system", such as it is, is all about booting it up to a big man when ASM and Almiron are both on the pitch, if that's the road you go down i think you take away ASM's impact in particular unless the argument is being made that we should be going to a giroud type up top and playing it more direct, but that's different i think Our system is about shifting from back to front as quickly as possible - direct, counter-attack. We basically need a striker who does exactly what rondon did last season. ASM's impact consists of some lovely dribbles from deep. If you play with a striker who allows you to retain the ball higher up the pitch you'd envisage more scenarios where your genuine attackers have opportunities to use the ball in more dangerous areas for the opposition Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 i remain unconvinced that "our system", such as it is, is all about booting it up to a big man when ASM and Almiron are both on the pitch, if that's the road you go down i think you take away ASM's impact in particular unless the argument is being made that we should be going to a giroud type up top and playing it more direct, but that's different i think Our system is about shifting from back to front as quickly as possible - direct, counter-attack. We basically need a striker who does exactly what rondon did last season. ASM's impact consists of some lovely dribbles from deep. If you play with a striker who allows you to retain the ball higher up the pitch you'd envisage more scenarios where your genuine attackers have opportunities to use the ball in more dangerous areas for the opposition Yep. No surprise the football brains of Ashley, Charnley, Nickson didn’t know that though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 yeah i understand what both of you are saying but it won't work instead of ASM or Almiron carrying the ball 40 yards to find themselves & Joelinton isolated from the entire team you're hoping that a 40 yard hoof to Giroud would somehow lead to those three somehow not being isolated from the team...we'll still have the same setup and static CMs the answer is not hoofball, the best we've looked all season is when ASM takes 2-3 players out creating space for others with his runs from deep, if you cut that avenue out we'll be even easier to defend against imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just a propheteer Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Yep ASM has been carrying this team. He makes space for willems to get in behind and also carries us up the pitch for longstaff Shelvey etc to get up around the oppositions box. Without him we would be in the bottom 3 now imo. Sure I seen a stat with us and without him and it backed that up Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 i get the idea the others are saying, hoofs up to giroud who'd hold it and ASM/almiron join the attack - way too predictable in this day and age, plus giroud would basically need to be peak shearer for it ever to work we'd be as well going for batshuyi and aiming for an improved ground game, at least that might result in the team moving further up the pitch if we work the ball better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NobbyOhNobby Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 yeah i understand what both of you are saying but it won't work instead of ASM or Almiron carrying the ball 40 yards to find themselves & Joelinton isolated from the entire team you're hoping that a 40 yard hoof to Giroud would somehow lead to those three somehow not being isolated from the team...we'll still have the same setup and static CMs the answer is not hoofball, the best we've looked all season is when ASM takes 2-3 players out creating space for others with his runs from deep, if you cut that avenue out we'll be even easier to defend against imo Do you remember the second half of last season? That's how it 'should' work. Direct football towards strong centre forward with two supporting players. The centre of midfield aren't there to score goals in this approach. Obviously we don't have Rafa, Rondon or Perez, but the theory is proved in that that's exactly how we played then, and exactly how we're attempting (poorly) to play now. ASM has been our shining light by default. I wouldn't choose to base my whole approach around him when the team is not capable of playing through him successfully. That's borne out in the fact that his number of goals, assists and chances created are low. If we had a centre forward who worked in this approach I'd imagine ASM and Alan Miron will be far more influential Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 yeah i understand what both of you are saying but it won't work instead of ASM or Almiron carrying the ball 40 yards to find themselves & Joelinton isolated from the entire team you're hoping that a 40 yard hoof to Giroud would somehow lead to those three somehow not being isolated from the team...we'll still have the same setup and static CMs the answer is not hoofball, the best we've looked all season is when ASM takes 2-3 players out creating space for others with his runs from deep, if you cut that avenue out we'll be even easier to defend against imo I don't think anyone is saying we should hoof the ball. We are hoofing it regardless, and so might as well have someone that can at least occasionally get a hold of it. I don't understand why you think that having a target man will prevent ASM from running from deep like he was doing with both Joelinton and Carroll playing the target man role pretty poorly anyway. How does a better target man then prevent him from doing this? Just not understanding what you mean? And what kind of player you then think we'll need to sort things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate End Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 yeah i understand what both of you are saying but it won't work instead of ASM or Almiron carrying the ball 40 yards to find themselves & Joelinton isolated from the entire team you're hoping that a 40 yard hoof to Giroud would somehow lead to those three somehow not being isolated from the team...we'll still have the same setup and static CMs the answer is not hoofball, the best we've looked all season is when ASM takes 2-3 players out creating space for others with his runs from deep, if you cut that avenue out we'll be even easier to defend against imo Do you remember the second half of last season? That's how it 'should' work. Direct football towards strong centre forward with two supporting players. The centre of midfield aren't there to score goals in this approach. Obviously we don't have Rafa, Rondon or Perez, but the theory is proved in that that's exactly how we played then, and exactly how we're attempting (poorly) to play now. ASM has been our shining light by default. I wouldn't choose to base my whole approach around him when the team is not capable of playing through him successfully. That's borne out in the fact that his number of goals, assists and chances created are low. If we had a centre forward who worked in this approach I'd imagine ASM and Alan Miron will be far more influential Agree. A natural target man is a must something Rafa would pinpoint because he has a football brain. Batshuayi would be terrible for the current system and he’d infuriate the fans with his awful hold up play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 yeah i understand what both of you are saying but it won't work instead of ASM or Almiron carrying the ball 40 yards to find themselves & Joelinton isolated from the entire team you're hoping that a 40 yard hoof to Giroud would somehow lead to those three somehow not being isolated from the team...we'll still have the same setup and static CMs the answer is not hoofball, the best we've looked all season is when ASM takes 2-3 players out creating space for others with his runs from deep, if you cut that avenue out we'll be even easier to defend against imo Do you remember the second half of last season? That's how it 'should' work. Direct football towards strong centre forward with two supporting players. The centre of midfield aren't there to score goals in this approach. Obviously we don't have Rafa, Rondon or Perez, but the theory is proved in that that's exactly how we played then, and exactly how we're attempting (poorly) to play now. ASM has been our shining light by default. I wouldn't choose to base my whole approach around him when the team is not capable of playing through him successfully. That's borne out in the fact that his number of goals, assists and chances created are low. If we had a centre forward who worked in this approach I'd imagine ASM and Alan Miron will be far more influential yeah i remember it, but not in the same way as you, i remember the season in 2 distinct parts 1 - up to when Ki came in we played long balls (largely via Shelvey of course) to Rondon and he was isolated from the rest of the team, and we really struggled obvs 2 - Ki came in and we started to play through the middle, the team moved moved more gradually up the pitch together and we got better support in and around Rondon which improved his game and also saw Perez hit form as well...it wasn't a matter of just the long balls started working or Rondon hit form, it was a complete change in the way we played and Longstaff came in and improved what Ki had started plus Almiron helped massively giving us another outlet a big man is very unlikely to help us unless we see a similar change in the system, imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 i'm not saying don't get another target man, we clearly will cause we've got PFM steve, i'm saying getting one is unlikely to improve things because the system is fucked Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 i'm not saying don't get another target man, we clearly will cause we've got PFM steve, i'm saying getting one is unlikely to improve things because the system is fucked Ah, right. I see what your saying about Ki and the removal of Shelvey. Yeah, that's a valid point. I'm coming more from the viewpoint that the manager is not even considering the way we play out and the players to improve that at all, because he is completely oblivious to it And so knowing that, the only chance we have is to have a really powerful presence up top. Not because this is going to produce better football per se, but because it will allow for what is already terrible football to likely create more chances albeit not a whole lot more. We are going to be a percentage football team essentially. In the mould of your Boltons, Stokes and Burnleys in recent times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 hey you may be right man, it's just not the move i'd make but i understand the logic behind the idea Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Yeah ... to be honest it wasn't really a solution. I don't even want Bruce to have any success at this point. I just think if we are going to insist on these crummy managers then just give them the players geared to their nonsense football. I'm just sick of us getting young talents that are onto a hiding to nothing, and then we end up ruining any chances of them being anything while having to listen to how shite they are. It just keeps on happening. Another that just came to mind was Luuk De Jong under Pardew. Wasn't it the same kind of talk? How he can't kick a football and can't finish His brother under Pardew as well and it was the same kind of talk ... I mean my goodness. Just sick of it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 see the rondon role was much more successful 2nd half of last season as we got players in about him, perez was especially good in that role due to his workrate off the ball and instinct to get in and around stuff in the box etc. and longstaff got forward very well playing in a more advanced team who is going to replicate that for us, ASM? highly doubtful imo, i think he's best playing in front of people almiron will be punted back to the right when ASM is fit again and will be a total waste of a shirt again so it likely won't be him either longstaff looks broken shortstaff has the potential to support from CM but unlikely to get enough game time shelvey has almost certainly peaked for the season, and anyways if we're launching it to a big man he'll be doing it so won't be in support, whereas 2nd half last season that was all done by in form and confident Cher/Lejeune who are now shot to fuck, but it freed longstaff & hayden to support more steve fucking bruce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Another that just came to mind was Luuk De Jong under Pardew. Wasn't it the same kind of talk? How he can't kick a football and can't finish good one aye, exactly the same criticism, now at sevilla so he presumably could kick a ball properly unless that deal is bent to fuck as well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 https://twitter.com/ManuLonjon/status/1214440170017230848 Ryan Babel discussions apparently. Looked good at Fulham last time around. Not sure we'd put him in positions to be useful. I do like him though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Another that just came to mind was Luuk De Jong under Pardew. Wasn't it the same kind of talk? How he can't kick a football and can't finish good one aye, exactly the same criticism, now at sevilla so he presumably could kick a ball properly unless that deal is bent to fuck as well 2 goals in 16 games. Not the best example really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 half last season that was all done by in form and confident Cher/Lejeune who are now shot to fuck Not strong enough? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 A 36 year old Glenn Murray without a goal since last season would be right up our street like. He’d be our best striker. For a Bruce team he definitely would. Not very mobile but can bustle about uselessly for 90 mins, and might lash one in every few games if one drops right. We'd still get relegated, but he's got a harder shot then Joelinton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Another that just came to mind was Luuk De Jong under Pardew. Wasn't it the same kind of talk? How he can't kick a football and can't finish good one aye, exactly the same criticism, now at sevilla so he presumably could kick a ball properly unless that deal is bent to fuck as well 2 goals in 16 games. Not the best example really. way to miss the point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts