Sven Botman

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, Dr Jinx said:

It’s not quite the career ending/altering injury it once was but it’s still one of the more significant ones a footballer can get. I really feel for the lad as he’s a top player.

 

A couple of weeks back it was obvious that Botman was miles off it… now at that point as a manager who should be able to notice these things in fucking training.. what do you do?.. leave him in and roll the dice or give him extra time to rehab and build back to the point he was beforehand, or as close to.

 

Eddie Howe has been running this squad into the ground over the course of 2 years, nearly every single one of them are walking on ice in relation to picking up serious injury. Fatigue is a massive contributing factor.

 

There's also been several instances of players being obviously crocked and being left on the pitch for 10/15 mins before being subbed. He’s done this repeatedly.

 

If any potential new signings or existing players that the club should be doing everything to keep have any level of intelligence, they’ll be thinking “playing for this guy is going to shorten my career”.

 

 

Got to think a second manager would have provided an extra set of eyes and allowed Howe to see the wood from the trees.

[Yorkie]

It's stupid to level anything at Howe, like. His team selections are clearly evidence-based. If the evidence is unreliable or incorrect, that's not his fault. 

 

It's a pity that - for all the good Howe's done - it isn't enough to earn the assumption (from some) that he won't play someone if there's a demonstrable risk that it'll cause a career-jeopardising injury. 

 

Re the injury, I think it's possible that there's been an oversight somewhere, but it's equally possible that it's genuinely just a peculiar case and the lad has been unfortunate. That thing about some specialists thinking he'd ruptured it and some thinking he hadn't just seems absolutely wild to me. I find it incredible that such a thing can be misdiagnosed, which supports the view that it's a really weird case. 

 

There is also the less belligerent reason, and it's an entirely fresh injury. 

[Dr Jinx]

25 minutes ago, madras said:

1. Yes he has, all managers do.

2 All managers do when their squads get thin.

3 See 2.

 

I wonder why he eased Willock back in such a way and wasn't something said about still easing Tino back after his ACL ?

Don’t think he eased Tino in due to injury concerns, he does that with all players at the start.

 

Only Isak got hoyed in the first game.

 

I’ve been negative toward him this season and I genuinely think he’s hit his ceiling with us.. last season his intense style of play ran the players into the ground too to a point where our form dipped.

 

We got away for some warm weather training which effectively saved the season for us.

 

This season we’ve had none of that.. we had a more hectic pre season, and despite a bright start we’ve been found out more often than not.

 

We still need to work much harder than any other team to get something from games.. that’s all down to his ethos and tactical setup.

 

He's not willing to change, or maybe he’s not capable of it. Either way we have a squad of players running on fumes and picking up serious injuries.

 

I don’t get how he’s so immune to criticism.

[madras]

4 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

Don’t think he eased Tino in due to injury concerns, he does that with all players at the start.

 

Only Isak got hoyed in the first game.

 

I’ve been negative toward him this season and I genuinely think he’s hit his ceiling with us.. last season his intense style of play ran the players into the ground too to a point where our form dipped.

 

We got away for some warm weather training which effectively saved the season for us.

 

This season we’ve had none of that.. we had a more hectic pre season, and despite a bright start we’ve been found out more often than not.

 

We still need to work much harder than any other team to get something from games.. that’s all down to his ethos and tactical setup.

 

He's not willing to change, or maybe he’s not capable of it. Either way we have a squad of players running on fumes and picking up serious injuries.

 

I don’t get how he’s so immune to criticism.

Had this season played out the way it had without 2 dislocations, 2 knacked backs, a turf toe and betting suspension to get through the toughest Champs league group with what we already knew was a squad that would be stretched more would have been said. As it is I don't think matt managers with this size squad would have made vastly different decisions. Also last season he said he wanted to go more possession based, I think that's why we bought Tonali.

 

Re Tino he said "

"I actually think [this season] has been the ideal introduction to his return from injury because not only did he have a serious knee injury, but he had a hamstring injury just after that which kept him out," Howe said. "We needed to nurse him, manage him and look after him.

"How this season's gone has probably been the ideal introduction back and I still think there's more to come. I don't think we've seen the very best of him yet.

"I really do believe in his potential and there's a very exciting future ahead of him hopefully."

[elbee909]

20 minutes ago, danny said:

I fucking hate this season, more than anyother

 

Any other? Come on.

[SUPERTOON]

24 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

It's stupid to level anything at Howe, like. His team selections are clearly evidence-based. If the evidence is unreliable or incorrect, that's not his fault. 

 

It's a pity that - for all the good Howe's done - it isn't enough to earn the assumption (from some) that he won't play someone if there's a demonstrable risk that it'll cause a career-jeopardising injury. 

 

Re the injury, I think it's possible that there's been an oversight somewhere, but it's equally possible that it's genuinely just a peculiar case and the lad has been unfortunate. That thing about some specialists thinking he'd ruptured it and some thinking he hadn't just seems absolutely wild to me. I find it incredible that such a thing can be misdiagnosed, which supports the view that it's a really weird case. 

 

There is also the less belligerent reason, and it's an entirely fresh injury. 

He has admitted that he is playing Longstaff who is carrying an injury. Don’t think it’s mad to suggest he’s doing it with other players either. I don’t think anyone is blameless in this injury crisis this season.

[duo]

What a mess up - clubs medical team have totally messed this up.  He never looked fit when he returned and clearly wasn't.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2024 by duo

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

He has admitted that he is playing Longstaff who is carrying an injury. Don’t think it’s mad to suggest he’s doing it with other players either. I don’t think anyone is blameless in this injury crisis this season.

Every manager plays players through injury. Every player plays with knocks.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, madras said:

Every manager plays players through injury. Every player plays with knocks.

They do, and Howe has admitted it, so the suggestion he doesn’t have any blame is wrong imo. 

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

They do, and Howe has admitted it, so the suggestion he doesn’t have any blame is wrong imo. 

So if every manager does they all should be blamed ?

[Myleftboot]

Is it Eddies same medical team from Bournemouth? In his final season at Bournemouth when they were relegated he had 11 injured players which was apparently one of the reasons they went down.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, madras said:

So if every manager does they all should be blamed ?

I don’t get the argument you are trying to create ? If a manage openly admits to playing an injured player and they then pick up another injury he shares part of the blame?

[Dr Jinx]

Just now, madras said:

Every manager plays players through injury. Every player plays with knocks.

There’s a difference between a knock, ie a bruised shin or something and a potential ACL tear.

 

Even to a layman it was obvious that Botman wasn’t right on his return. Howe should have held him back.. this season was pretty much a write off by the time he was returning anyway so why take that risk.

[Yorkie]

4 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

He has admitted that he is playing Longstaff who is carrying an injury. Don’t think it’s mad to suggest he’s doing it with other players either. I don’t think anyone is blameless in this injury crisis this season.

 

Playing someone who's carrying an injury is one thing; playing someone who is likely to completely rupture their ACL is another. I'm sure if he had the knowledge that that was a very real possibility, he wouldn't have played him. 

[madras]

2 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I don’t get the argument you are trying to create ? If a manage openly admits to playing an injured player and they then pick up another injury he shares part of the blame?

But they all have to. I'd love to see the state of some line ups if players carrying knocks weren't to play. Squad sizes would have to increase.

[Yorkie]

2 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

There’s a difference between a knock, ie a bruised shin or something and a potential ACL tear.

 

Even to a layman it was obvious that Botman wasn’t right on his return. Howe should have held him back.. this season was pretty much a write off by the time he was returning anyway so why take that risk.

 

Sick of reading this, mind. As if anyone at the top of the game thinks like this when they're still in the FA Cup and still in European contention.

[The Prophet]

It's common practice for players to be playing with knocks and minor injuries, it's par for the course.

 

That said, the period between November and January, when we were down to the bear bones, we clearly took a couple of risks to get a competative eleven out. Players being overplayed and brought back earlier from injury than they would have been normally.

 

It is interesting to see a few of the lads dismiss fatigue as an excuse back then, wonder why we're still picking up injuries now,  whilst completely ignoring the context they've occured in.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, madras said:

But they all have to. I'd love to see the state of some line ups if players carrying knocks weren't to play. Squad sizes would have to increase.

I’m not laying the blame fully on Howe, I just think to say he doesn’t take any is wrong. The longstaff one as an example, he’s having injections in his foot to get through games. Miley could play instead. 

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

There’s a difference between a knock, ie a bruised shin or something and a potential ACL tear.

 

Even to a layman it was obvious that Botman wasn’t right on his return. Howe should have held him back.. this season was pretty much a write off by the time he was returning anyway so why take that risk.

I'm guessing they didn't think there was a potential ACL tear.

[The Prophet]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I’m not laying the blame fully on Howe, I just think to say he doesn’t take any is wrong. The longstaff one as an example, he’s having injections in his foot to get through games. Miley could play instead. 

 

The Longstaff stuff is quite normal (not that it should be). Like you I'd rather see Miley given a go though.

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I’m not laying the blame fully on Howe, I just think to say he doesn’t take any is wrong. The longstaff one as an example, he’s having injections in his foot to get through games. Miley could play instead. 

He's already said he doesn't want to push Miley too much and players have played through injury with injections for years. What chance he'd done what you want and Miley picks up an injury, would it be he burned him out ?

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, The Prophet said:

 

The Longstaff stuff is quite normal (not that it should be). Like you I'd rather see Miley given a go though.

I do expect now Anderson is fit for him to get in ahead of Longstaff for a while mind. 

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I do expect now Anderson is fit for him to get in ahead of Longstaff for a while mind. 

Possibly...... but neither of them look suited to that right hand side role.

[The Prophet]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I do expect now Anderson is fit for him to get in ahead of Longstaff for a while mind. 

 

Only think that might stop him I'd he likes to play left side. Miley seems quite capable on either side.

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

He's already said he doesn't want to push Miley too much and players have played through injury with injections for years. What chance he'd done what you want and Miley picks up an injury, would it be he burned him out ?

We probably aren’t going to agree with each other so I’ll leave it there. My main point was that I think across the season everyone at the club shares a portion of blame. Whilst accepting we have had horrendous luck on the injury front, I do think more could have been done to avoid it being as bad as it has been. No doubt lessons will have been learnt to avoid a repeat.