Memberships (2023/24)

[OCOCOL]

4 hours ago, TheGuv said:

So perhaps it seems that with Brighton selling out on 1+ points and balloting for ST holders (presumably on 0 points) the away system is now more fair?

 

It would be nice if the Club could liaise with the the Trust @Gregto implement a similar system for home tickets and members.

*And away loyalty points for members (should away tickets ever drop to members?)

Rail strikes I think will have had a bigger impact that the new ticketing arrangements. 
 

I don’t agree that it’s fairer atm either. It may work out that way longer term but sone of our most committed (measured by actually spending time and money going) are being or slowed now for not being season ticket holders snd using friends and family networks.

 

The real yours won’t give a fuck and the club need to look at how tickets are getting on resale sites. I’m guessing yhe enemy is within. 

[TheGuv]

I think this is a fairly written article on a few matters at the moment.

 

https://t.co/Eq45DPSiQE

 

Newcastle United Supporters Services – serving who?

 

Newcastle United has something of a chequered history in its formal engagement with supporters but probably reached its nadir under Ashley’s ownership when Charnley banned the Supporters Trust from the generally pointless Fans Liaison Committee and refused to explain why.

Like so much at United now, things have changed for the better. I understand there are good relations between the club and the Trust which can only be positive news in the long term.

In the short term, there is a mountain of work to do and let’s be honest the stuff with tickets last week for the first away game of the season at Man City is nothing like a good start. That the ticket arrangements caused so much anxiety, insult and inconvenience for supporters last Saturday is well-documented.

That there has been no public acknowledgement of all of that from United makes me wonder what is going on and hints at poor Ashley-style ways of working persisting at St James’ Park. I sincerely hope I’m wrong in that regard.

I’m not going to go over old ground with tickets but only to mention there are secondary ticket sale sites with advertisements for this Sunday’s game v Liverpool on sale at eye-watering prices. They make a mockery of the membership scheme.

A cursory look at social media and anyone can see how angry this makes fans, particularly those who have applied for tickets for this game but who failed to get them. Tickets have fallen into the hands of touts but as of yet, the club has announced zero action to tackle this and as a consequence spivs are exploiting supporters desperate to get into see our team play. This has to be stopped but there is a perfectly legitimate question to ask where this has started?

I find it difficult to work out how a season ticket holder could pass on their ticket on to a secondary site given the digital arrangements, though I’ll add the caveat I’m not the most tech savvy and accept there may be methods.

I do wonder if United hasn’t made tickets vulnerable to being bought by touts by offering unlimited memberships and if they are going to repeat the error with a similar approach to international supporters?

The club will make some money from selling memberships but as the numbers increase they become less desirable as the odds of getting a ticket get longer.

This whole exercise I suspect is driven by a desire to collect data for marketing purposes and I must say, having recently learned the Box Office is managed by the Marketing Manager (Yvette Thompson) as opposed to a ticketing specialist, strikes me as an uncomfortable organisational fit. I’ll await to be corrected on the structure at SJP if that’s not the case.

The Box Office should be making decisions on the management of ticketing, developing its own policies and strategies to manage the supporter experience in this area rather than as an adjunct to marketing interests.

It needs autonomy and support to achieve that as well as develop its own experience and expertise. It likely has the ingredients for that but if its work is being made a lesser priority to data collection for example then it is not going to be fully sighted on the core business of getting people into football matches.

I’ll be honest I was disappointed at the manner in which the Head of Supporters Services was appointed. There was no advertisement for the vacancy and it appears the person who now occupies the role (Sarah Medcalf) was posted into the vacancy from the Newcastle United Foundation without any fair and open competition.

My hope had been for a supporters representative(s) (NUST, NUDSA, United with Pride) to have played a part in that selection and appointment but that wasn’t to be.

I’ll disabuse anyone of the notion I had any personal interest in the role. My patience with the psycho-drama of Newcastle United’s support ran out a long time ago and I could fill the internet with accounts of why working in those posts is a bed of nails I can do well without lying upon.

There was a vacancy filling process for the Supporters Liaison Officer to which Matt Willis was appointed only four months ago. Matt was the only person from Newcastle United I am aware of who had his boots on the ground outside the away end. I’d suggest that was wholly inadequate given the club was implementing the biggest change to away fan arrangements in living memory. I don’t know any business which would not have had key people from the decision making process right there, hearing and seeing the impact of their policies upon their customers (sic). But not for this? If I’m wrong, I’ll happily correct this.

None of this is meant to represent any sleight against the individuals mentioned here. I am certain all of the people referred to have a great many skills and qualities that add significant value to the new version of Newcastle United.

Let’s move on from ticketing …

Most match-going supporters are aware of an incident at the Black Bull (Black & White Bull) at the corner of Stanhope St and Barrack Rd last season after the Chelsea game. All I know of the incident is what I’ve seen on some very grainy footage which involved a fight of some sort between rival supporters.

As I understand it, arrests were made of Newcastle United supporters involved but subsequently dropped. They have not been found guilty of any offence. However, understandably while Police action was underway, United suspended the season tickets of two lads I believe. I don’t know either of them.

I would have thought it was the obvious thing to do when it was clear the lads were guilty of no offence, any suspension would have been lifted and they would have been allowed to go to matches at SJP as they had previously.

But the suspension has not been lifted and as I understand it all attempts to reach out to the club (and it is a clear Supporters Service matter) have been ignored. At present I believe solicitors have written to United and thus far have not received a response to the understandable consternation of the two supporters involved.

Indeed, Newcastle United has breached its own commitments under the Newcastle United Supporter Charter – see enclosed – under Customer Service (towards the foot of the page). The two lads have not received a response from the club and nor have they had any correspondence to advise how long it will take the club to respond.

This is really poor and it is something Sarah Medcalf (Head of Supporter Services) and her line manager, Peter Silverstone (Chief Commercial Officer) should be accountable for. Unfortunately, it does not appear there is any penalty for not responding as per the commitment the club makes itself. Yoiu might conclude then the warm words in the Supporters Charter have been rendered meaningless by those who you would expect to be key in upholding them.

This has gone on long enough. I would hope both lads have contacted the Football Supporters Association – click here – who are funded to support football fans in this and similar situations. If they are members of the Newcastle United Supporters Trust then I’d imagine their case would be raised with the club too.

Not that the lads should have to go to these lengths. If there is an unknown reason why the club is rebuffing all attempts to resolve this matter then the two lads deserve a full explanation. Newcastle United has benefitted from their support for many years and it is a huge part of their lives.

Newcastle United is the huge beneficiary of our support and goodwill right now. I have zero doubt all of the stuff I’ve outlined above with regards to away game ticketing, touting and the treatment of two individual supporters is well under the radar of directors and senior members of the executive team.

However, the longer these issues go unaddressed then the more likely they will have this land on their desks.

It shouldn’t get to that but it is down to people appointed to key positions to do the right things. It’s not too late to do that.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Anything like digital and ticketing being under the marketing part of the organisation is quite old fashioned. 
 

In a modern organisation you’d more likely find it under customer experience or something along those lines. 
 

The ticketing team could own the ticketing policies but they should be developed and implemented with fan experience and digital customer experience people right at the heart of it. 
 

I’m hoping that whole part of the club will be overhauled soon. Ideally you’d want someone with real executive presence running it so they can represent that angle at board level as well. 
 

As everyone has said, still feels like a skeleton old fashioned Mike Ashley style setup. 

[mattypnufc]

Having had discussions about a role at the club (head hunted) I can very much state that the remnants of Ashley are very much still in place. Behind the scenes central operational roles still have ‘stingy’ conditions and contracts in place. The very reason I turned the approach down. Imagine it’s the same across all roles which aren’t directly football related. It’ll take them a long time to restructure and sort out the filth that shithouse left behind.  
 

 

[Hovagod]

The new ticket policies that people are objecting to are because of choices the current ownership have made in collaboration with fan groups. The ticket office being shit is undoubtedly down to Ashley but let’s not leave every bill at his door. This is the current owners making decisions (not every one I even disagree with- I’m broadly in their side regarding away tickets) and we shouldn’t be scared to point it out. 

[Wallsendmag]

They've been in charge almost 2 years now. How long does it take to set up a fully functioning and reliable ticket office thats fit for purpose? 5 years?, 10 maybe?

[Hovagod]

Just now, Wallsendmag said:

They've been in charge almost 2 years now. How long does it take to set up a fully functioning and reliable ticket office thats fit for purpose? 5 years?, 10 maybe?

But people seem specifically annoyed about the membership ballots and new policies regarding away games. Both implemented by the new owners. 

[Greg]

5 minutes ago, Hovagod said:

The new ticket policies that people are objecting to are because of choices the current ownership have made in collaboration with fan groups. The ticket office being shit is undoubtedly down to Ashley but let’s not leave every bill at his door. This is the current owners making decisions (not every one I even disagree with- I’m broadly in their side regarding away tickets) and we shouldn’t be scared to point it out. 

 

Collaboration is the wrong word, but other than that this is pretty accurate. There's been engagement for sure, but not collaboration - the club made their mind up on what they wanted to do and then engaged and the Trust got a few small wins (e.g. the ability to transfer home tickets to friends and family wasn't on the cards at the start) - but some elements of the new approach they didn't engage on at all. You are correct that this is very much the current ownership is making these decisions, and it is pretty clear they are making them through a lens of increasing revenue first.

[Wallsendmag]

Just now, Hovagod said:

But people seem specifically annoyed about the membership ballots and new policies regarding away games. Both implemented by the new owners. 

 

Yes they do although I do think the new owners have taken advice from 1 or more fan groups about this topic. Maybe unwisely but that's another argument. Of course these policies are both linked to ticketing/the ticket office as with any sort of change of that kind they will be the first port of call for people who have queries.

 

The ticket office has taken a lot of flak lately and rightly so. My question specifically was what would be an acceptable time scale to turn it into a fully functioning, competent part of the football club where supporters could go with confidence when needing assistance for any problems or general questions they might have? Almost 2 years in and it seems as bad as it was under Ashley and as selling tickets is at the centre of any clubs operations it seems a bit odd that it hasn't been improved. I mean up until this week we were working with a stadium plan which is around 15 years old when trying to work out price categories.

 

Admittedly I have a massive gripe with them at the minute as my membership so far has been a waste of money and I've been forced into being an armchair fan but the points are still valid.

[Greg]

5 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Yes they do although I do think the new owners have taken advice from 1 or more fan groups about this topic. Maybe unwisely but that's another argument. Of course these policies are both linked to ticketing/the ticket office as with any sort of change of that kind they will be the first port of call for people who have queries.

 

The ticket office has taken a lot of flak lately and rightly so. My question specifically was what would be an acceptable time scale to turn it into a fully functioning, competent part of the football club where supporters could go with confidence when needing assistance for any problems or general questions they might have? Almost 2 years in and it seems as bad as it was under Ashley and as selling tickets is at the centre of any clubs operations it seems a bit odd that it hasn't been improved. I mean up until this week we were working with a stadium plan which is around 15 years old when trying to work out price categories.

 

Admittedly I have a massive gripe with them at the minute as my membership so far has been a waste of money and I've been forced into being an armchair fan but the points are still valid.

 

The new owners have not taken advice from anyone - they won't even be involved in this level of thinking/detail. Ticketing falls under the remit of Peter Silverstone and then the Head of Marketing who reports to him. The club has very much decided what they want to do here and then engaged on it with a few small tweaks being made. All this bashing of 'fan groups' and those that attending the ticketing workshops (which weren't great but the club can say they engaged) is a bit ridiculous really - a lot of it seems to stem from an unwillingness to blame and criticise the club under our new ownership. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Greg

[AyeDubbleYoo]

The department could’ve been transformed if they had started it on day one, but I guess it wouldn’t have been a priority. 
 

Even a new website and online booking system could easily take over a year and cost into the millions. 
 

This is why I think fan experience is the best lens to look at it through. We know all 52k tickets are going to sell every game, and the revenue from that is there no matter how badly the club handle it.
 

I can imagine you would put this department quite low down on the list of priorities when you arrive as owners, because it’s not critical to the success of the team or club. But it is critical to keeping fans happy. 
 

Hopefully at some point they will shift the thinking to be more about engaging with fans and creating a great experience for us, and not just the mechanical issues of selling the tickets. But it will need people to be brought in with a different mindset and given the power to implement things they want. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by AyeDubbleYoo

[Wallsendmag]

1 minute ago, Greg said:

 

The new owners have not taken advice from anyone - they won't even be involved in this level of thinking/detail. Ticketing falls under the remit of Peter Silverstone and then the Head of Marketing who reports to him. The club has very much decided what they want to do here and then engaged on it with a few small tweaks being made. All this bashing of 'fan groups' and those that attending the ticketing workshops (which weren't great but the club can say they engaged) is a bit ridiculous really - a lot of it seems to stem from an unwillingness to blame and criticise the club under our new ownership. 

 

 

 

 

Is it fair to say that NUST pointed them in the direction of Brighton when it came to the subject of away ticket allocation?

 

And I'm more than willing to blame the poor ticket office directly on the new ownership! I would have expected it to be better than it is after almost 2 years.

[El Prontonise]

30 minutes ago, mattypnufc said:

Having had discussions about a role at the club (head hunted) I can very much state that the remnants of Ashley are very much still in place. Behind the scenes central operational roles still have ‘stingy’ conditions and contracts in place. The very reason I turned the approach down. Imagine it’s the same across all roles which aren’t directly football related. It’ll take them a long time to restructure and sort out the filth that shithouse left behind.  
 

 

 

Yeap it takes a long time to get structures and processes into place.

[Greg]

1 minute ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Is it fair to say that NUST pointed them in the direction of Brighton when it came to the subject of away ticket allocation?

 

And I'm more than willing to blame the poor ticket office directly on the new ownership! I would have expected it to be better than it is after almost 2 years.

 

They said they were going to do it and that decision had been made and asked for any view on how it would / could work. The Brighton method where a small number of fans are told in advance to collect their ticket with ID on the day of the game is far preferable to the nonsense we had a Man City with random tickets being cancelled without knowing and only finding out at the gate - and potentially splitting people up, potentially leaving a child alone outside the ground etc. 

 

I agree with you on the box office. The ticket office in particular needs a lot of work - I spoke with someone yesterday who spent 7 hours trying to sort out a pretty minor issue as they are almost impossible to get through to. Someone today trying to sort CL ticket payment that failed was emailed saying to call the box office at 9am today, doesn't open until 10am. They are understaffed and don't have the right information at hand often.

[Big River]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Even a new website and online booking system could easily take over a year and cost into the millions. 

 

it doesn't need to take over a year and cost into the millions, though. they're already partnered with SeatGeek who will have a system ready to roll out to partners, it's a massive part of what they do. but regardless, point is, there's a whole industry who specialise in building solutions to solve these problems. so it's not like they need to, or should even attempt to build their own system. lean on SeatGeek, if they aren't up to snuff, partner with TicketMaster. or just anyone who knows what they're doing ffs

 

I'm sure it will all get sorted in time, but as I've previously said, they shouldn't have touched anything until a better solution was ready. the changes and communication has been rank amateur from top to bottom.

[Greg]

2 minutes ago, Big River said:

 

it doesn't need to take over a year and cost into the millions, though. they're already partnered with SeatGeek who will have a system ready to roll out to partners, it's a massive part of what they do. but regardless, point is, there's a whole industry who specialise in building solutions to solve these problems. so it's not like they need to, or should even attempt to build their own system. lean on SeatGeek, if they aren't up to snuff, partner with TicketMaster. or just anyone who knows what they're doing ffs

 

I'm sure it will all get sorted in time, but as I've previously said, they shouldn't have touched anything until a better solution was ready. the changes and communication has been rank amateur from top to bottom.

 

The problem is they tried to do all this in about 3 months. They were pretty clear with me that their ticketing provider had a number of limitations on what they can do - but I suspect given timings that's off-the-shelf solutions not bespoke.

[Big River]

10 minutes ago, Greg said:

The problem is they tried to do all this in about 3 months. They were pretty clear with me that their ticketing provider had a number of limitations on what they can do - but I suspect given timings that's off-the-shelf solutions not bespoke.

 

well aye it's plain as day that it's been rushed. if the ticketing provider has limitations, find another ticketing provider. or better yet, leave things alone until you can figure it out.

 

I don't buy that at all by the way, look into them, they work with the NFL, NBA, Man City, Liverpool, etc. do we really think the limitations are at their end? the US leagues and teams in particular wouldn't stand for it. and as explained we don't need a bespoke solution, why would we? the technology and service providers already exist.

[Greg]

7 minutes ago, Big River said:

 

well aye it's plain as day that it's been rushed. if the ticketing provider has limitations, find another ticketing provider. or better yet, leave things alone until you can figure it out.

 

I don't buy that at all by the way, look into them, they work with the NFL, NBA, Man City, Liverpool, etc. do we really think the limitations are at their end? the US leagues and teams in particular wouldn't stand for it. and as explained we don't need a bespoke solution, why would we? the technology and service providers already exist.

 

I think the limitations are not necessarily in what the provider can do - it is in what the provider can do in a matter of weeks. No excuse now to not hugely improve the system for next season (they won't make big changes mid season). 

[El Prontonise]

8 minutes ago, Big River said:

 

well aye it's plain as day that it's been rushed. if the ticketing provider has limitations, find another ticketing provider. or better yet, leave things alone until you can figure it out.

 

I don't buy that at all by the way, look into them, they work with the NFL, NBA, Man City, Liverpool, etc. do we really think the limitations are at their end? the US leagues and teams in particular wouldn't stand for it. and as explained we don't need a bespoke solution, why would we? the technology and service providers already exist.

 

Agree with this except on the last point.

 

If you don't want to be using multiple systems then you need a bespoke one.

[El Prontonise]

That tickets website uses .aspx extensions so it's using asp.net webforms which shows its age and inability to change it because I'm a .net developer and no one develops in it now and hasn't for like 5 years and isn't supported much now.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by El Prontonise

[Big River]

1 minute ago, El Prontonise said:

If you don't want to be using multiple systems then you need a bespoke one.

 

what do you mean?

[Greg]

They don't need a bespoke system. When I said bespoke I probably just mean off-the-shelf products that are tweaked for what a specific club needs. 

[El Prontonise]

9 minutes ago, Big River said:

 

what do you mean?

 

As with any IT system who can't just buy a plug and play and it all works.  It needs a lot of work to get it working with existing systems.

 

For example CRM is one and that needs to be linked back to the system that handles ST and Memberships.  

 

Also I'm a developer so I'd prefer a bespoke system. 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by El Prontonise

[El Prontonise]

I think the issue here is someone has clearly thought they could do some changes which they thought would be easy to implement within a time frame and it wasn't and then they had to rush it all through before the season started.

[Big River]

1 minute ago, El Prontonise said:

 

As with any IT system who can't just buy a plug and play and it all works.  It needs a lot of work to get it working with existing systems.

 

For example CRM is one and that needs to be linked back to the system that handles ST and Memberships.

 

Also I'm a developer so I'd prefer a bespoke system

 

I'm a developer and you're talking shite, as usual