summerof69 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Leon osman and Danny Murphy debate is rediculous. Basic jist Of it British/ premier league based player couldn't win ballon d'or because they have to track back and " can't have any passengers in the premier league". " if I have a British player in my team, I'm not letting them stand around and do all the flicks and tricks in the corner" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Leon osman and Danny Murphy debate is rediculous. Basic jist Of it British/ premier league based player couldn't win ballon d'or because they have to track back and " can't have any passengers in the premier league". Ronaldo won the ballon d'or at Man Utd didn't he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
summerof69 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Think so Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 They've obviously forgotten that Ronaldo won the Ballon D'or when he was at Man United. This whole contradictory 'Woe is me, but actually also it's best league in the world' combo when it comes to England is so fucking tiresome like, someone just needs to sit them all down and show them how blinkered and wrong they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 At least 2 of Messi’s CL’s Barca could’ve won it with him on the bench. 1 of them they did. When was this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 FFS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Probably wouldnt have gotten out of the group without him either. However, yes Messi id far superior as a talent. Aye they wouldn’t have made it out of the group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Ronaldo is THE DIFFERENCE. In the Euros and the CL last season. Real couldn’t have won it without him. On at least 2 occasions I’m both tournaments he was the difference. At least 2 of Messi’s CL’s Barca could’ve won it with him on the bench. 1 of them they did. But yes obviously Messi is the better and more talented, gifted player. But last season clearly Ronaldo deserved it. Portugal won the Euros without him and I would argue that him getting injured helped them in that particular game as all of their players could focus on defending. I think Real would have won the CL without Ronaldo last season personally. Which two CL's could Barca have won without Messi? Real Madrid get eliminated by Bayern Munich without Ronaldo. Did he not score 4 goals over both legs and got a Bayern player sent off? He (and refereeing decisions) were the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Scored twice and assisted the other to get Portugal out the group. Scored and assisted in the semis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Probably wouldnt have gotten out of the group without him either. However, yes Messi id far superior as a talent. Aye they wouldn’t have made it out of the group. They got three points in the group stage with him ffs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The first CL Messi won he was on the bench in the final in 2006 I believe. Henrik Larsson came off the bench to win it iirc. He was a bairn obviously. The second in 2009 they were by far and away the best team in Europe and they win it without him imo. He was the diamond of that team but the only close game I recall was the Chelsea one where Iniesta came through in the clutch. The final was absolutely one sided. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Probably wouldnt have gotten out of the group without him either. However, yes Messi id far superior as a talent. Aye they wouldn’t have made it out of the group. They got three points in the group stage with him ffs They drew 3-3 to get the last point. He scored twice and assisted. Nobody else would’ve picked up the slack. They go out. Pepe came into the team in KO’s returning from injury and they kept it tight afterwards iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The first CL Messi won he was on the bench in the final in 2006 I believe. Henrik Larsson came off the bench to win it iirc. He was a bairn obviously. The second in 2009 they were by far and away the best team in Europe and they win it without him imo. He was the diamond of that team but the only close game I recall was the Chelsea one where Iniesta came through in the clutch. The final was absolutely one sided. Messi was injured and wasn't in the squad in 06 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Probably wouldnt have gotten out of the group without him either. However, yes Messi id far superior as a talent. Aye they wouldn’t have made it out of the group. They got three points in the group stage with him ffs They drew 3-3 to get the last point. He scored twice and assisted. Nobody else would’ve picked up the slack. They go out. Pepe came into the team in KO’s returning from injury and they kept it tight afterwards iirc. Aye, against an already qualified Hungary. He's the second best player in the world, there's something wrong if he doesn't score against one of Hungary, Iceland and Austria Pepe was by far Portugal's best player in the tournament and you're wrong again by the way, Pepe played in every game in the tournament Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The first CL Messi won he was on the bench in the final in 2006 I believe. Henrik Larsson came off the bench to win it iirc. He was a bairn obviously. The second in 2009 they were by far and away the best team in Europe and they win it without him imo. He was the diamond of that team but the only close game I recall was the Chelsea one where Iniesta came through in the clutch. The final was absolutely one sided. Messi was injured and wasn't in the squad in 06 Looking it up again. He was injured 2 months prior against Chelsea. They won that tournament without him. I think half that Side were involved in 2009. Portugal go out in the group stage with Eder upfront most likely. I do agree that Pepe was the MVP but Ronaldo came up in big moments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 It was Fonte coming into the side then. Carvalho legs had long gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The first CL Messi won he was on the bench in the final in 2006 I believe. Henrik Larsson came off the bench to win it iirc. He was a bairn obviously. The second in 2009 they were by far and away the best team in Europe and they win it without him imo. He was the diamond of that team but the only close game I recall was the Chelsea one where Iniesta came through in the clutch. The final was absolutely one sided. Messi was injured and wasn't in the squad in 06 Looking it up again. He was injured 2 months prior against Chelsea. They won that tournament without him. I think half that Side were involved in 2009. Portugal go out in the group stage with Eder upfront most likely. I do agree that Pepe was the MVP but Ronaldo came up in big moments. Aye but nobody mentions 06 as a reason why Messi is so good so I don't really know what you're on about Valdes, Puyol and Eto'o were the only ones who started 06 and 09 so you're wrong again for the third time in three posts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Taking nothing away from Messi. His excellence is unrivalled. Every week you can see it. But Cronaldo is the difference. The reason his teams have gone to the semis of the CL something like 7 years straight is him. If Bayern have him last season they win the CL. He deserves all his ballon d’ors because he goes out and does the business. Has done for a decade. Applaud him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I said at least 2 CL’s that he’s won, they could’ve won without him. They actually did win 1 without him lol. I recall watching a documentary on him and he felt he hadn’t earned or contributed as much to that victory and he was gutted to not play in the final. Which is why I said 2. Didn’t Xavi and Iniesta not come off the bench? In any case the core of the 2009 side also won the World Cup and Euros. My only point is that’s an all time great team before you add the best player ever to it in his prime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I'm not sure what difference it makes, but Man United could have definitely won in 2009 like, arguably even with Messi playing. 2011 was another story, because obviously Barca were insane, but considering he scored, assisted, generally took the piss, and was MOTM in a match that's generally seen as one of his greatest, you'd be brave to say Barca would have still won that one. Considering Messi's become famous for consistently being THE DIFFERENCE in huge, clutch moments though, I'm not sure why anyone would bring that up as being something Ronaldo does that Messi does less formidably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Ronaldo’s greatness is more linked to being the difference than Messi’s. As there are a few players maybe as equally talented or good. So when he wins the Ballon D’Or it’s testament to him being the difference. Messi on the other hand is just the best. I think most of the years neither wins a major trophy he gets the Ballon D’or Because hes the best. Messi’s been a part of a few sides that are head and shoulders above the competition. With Pep they would’ve no doubt had some type of Golden Era without Messi imo. Madrid Golden Era is slightly more Ronaldo specific. Some of that is by design. Messi can play in a way that allows Suárez to grab a lot of the big goals. Real play for Ronaldo more and are not as cohesive as the better Barca sides. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Many will disagree but I personally don't see how it's even so heavily debated. Messi to me is by far the better football player. Ronaldo's ability is equal to many players I've seen in my lifetime, as a kid I looked up in awe at Zidane and Brazilian Ronaldo, C Ronaldo is about on their level, Messi is on another entirely. Brazilian Ronaldo would have been above those two and was above those two without the injury. He was genuinely nearly Messi level, as fleeting as it was by comparison. Brilliant to watch he was. For me there's 3 players I've watched where it almost seems like god at play. From another world. Something coming through them. Zidane had glimpses of it, Brazilian Ronaldo has phases, but Messi almost every time I see him play. Best ever, no doubt in my mind. Prior to the first knee injury Ronaldo had it every game and then some, even with how good Messi has been there was just something about Ronaldo that I've never seen anybody have. Don't think anybody has been able to run at such velocity with a ball under such close control as Ronaldo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Ronaldo’s greatness is more linked to being the difference than Messi’s. As there are a few players maybe as equally talented or good. So when he wins the Ballon D’Or it’s testament to him being the difference. Messi on the other hand is just the best. I think most of the years neither wins a major trophy he gets the Ballon D’or Because hes the best. Messi’s been a part of a few sides that are head and shoulders above the competition. With Pep they would’ve no doubt had some type of Golden Era without Messi imo. Madrid Golden Era is slightly more Ronaldo specific. Some of that is by design. Messi can play in a way that allows Suárez to grab a lot of the big goals. Real play for Ronaldo more and are not as cohesive as the better Barca sides. Disagree with the majority of that tbh, but okay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Wasn't Cristiano relatively poor by his standards in the Euros? I remember him throwing a massive strop at that reporter and hoying his microphone in the lake when he asked him about not scoring. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Portugal were absolute shite too. Essentially they were a Waitrose Greece. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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