Lush Vlad Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 17 minutes ago, TRC said: Looking at our FFP, are we not completely fucked? This doesnt take into account this years figures, but we would need to post 13m in profit in this years accounts to be sustainable? as we have 118m in losses last 2 years? Someone that actually knows what they’re on about or properly cares about FFP/PSR will know more. But I thought loads of our losses can be written off. Due to it being spent on infrastructure, training ground, women’s team etc. Not sure how the accounting period works. But also the CL money and some of the new sponsorships and Adidas are not yet factored in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: Selling Maxi and Wood ring any bells? Also the £73M loss announced this year is not all attributable to ffp, with many things deductible from it for things like the academy, training ground and investment in the Women's team not counting towards the PL's PSR calculations. I'm looking at this, 58m in losses last year, so continue as we are and we are on course for 180m is in losses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said: It’s one of the reasons why I think we may sell Bruno. And this window aswell. He is also in Paris which is a little bit of a concern. I would be shocked if we were selling him this window. There is no reason for us to do that now if we can just do it in the summer instead, unless clause is met. If we sell him now then we've got to focus on getting above 40 points. We are already missing 4 midfielders. I don't know why we would think that our owners are complete idiots, because they haven't shown that at all. Edited January 16 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 14 minutes ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said: It’s one of the reasons why I think we may sell Bruno. And this window aswell. He is also in Paris which is a little bit of a concern. No. Just, no. The owners aren’t stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I'm not an accountant or an expert in FFP, but I've made the decision to run the numbers and soil myself regardless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 The way this season has gone we might as well sell Bruno & Isak now, along with anyone else attracting ott fees. Start again in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenC Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 7 minutes ago, TRC said: I'm looking at this, 58m in losses last year, so continue as we are and we are on course for 180m is in losses. Probably working on the basis that they won't continue as they are, I guess Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 8 minutes ago, TRC said: I'm looking at this, 58m in losses last year, so continue as we are and we are on course for 180m is in losses. Look at the bottom of the table it includes this years accounts and it shows £105M. Dunno where you’re getting the £180M from? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I think we should just liquidate the club and raze SJP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: Look at the bottom of the table it includes this years accounts and it shows £105M. Dunno where you’re getting the £180M from? That doesnt include this season, I assume this season we have similar losses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: Look at the bottom of the table it includes this years accounts and it shows £105M. Dunno where you’re getting the £180M from? What he means is that if we remover ‘21 and add ‘24 with the same trend we are overstretched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Or are you presuming we are going to make a similar loss next year, with the SELA money, CL money, greater income from the cup games and higher league finish? Not sure which years accounts the Adidas deal will land on too. I wouldn’t panic we have competent people running things, they know what we can afford to spend and will do, but I’d imagine it’ll be at least as much as this summer, but offset by higher incoming commercial revenue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, TRC said: That doesnt include this season, I assume this season we have similar losses? Sorry what I meant was the most recently released accounts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, The Prophet said: I think we should just liquidate the club and raze SJP. Move it brick by brick to Beamish imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills and Boon Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, High Five o said: What he means is that if we remover ‘21 and add ‘24 with the same trend we are overstretched. We won't follow the same trend because we'll have increased revenue from Sela, Adidas and the Champions League etc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: Sorry what I meant was the most recently released accounts Yeah, I'm talking about this time next year. Increased wages are probably offset by the Sela deal, then we add CL money on top I dunno how much this is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TRC said: Yeah, I'm talking about this time next year. Increased wages are probably offset by the Sela deal, then we add CL money on top I dunno how much this is. And as previously mentioned this summer was the first year we offset some of our incomings with sales for actual money. The Wood and Maxi deals will have presented at worst wiping our noses on Wood from an FFP perspective and whilst many didn’t think Maxi went for enough, given the amortisation on his £12 arrival fee, probably represented a decent wedge in ffp terms Edited January 16 by Ghandis Flip-Flop Apparently don’t know difference between in and out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: Look at the bottom of the table it includes this years accounts and it shows £105M. Dunno where you’re getting the £180M from? He means if you take off 2020/21 and add 2023/24 (current season) if we were to continue with similar losses. But I think the very short answer is we will not continue with those losses as I don't think we intend to just ignore the rules. Our FFP constraints this season are due to to this three year period. UCL, Sela, Maxi, and Wood sales should see us through. We can also massage the numbers via infrastructure and youth development investments if needed. The potentially significant reduction in PL merit £ may be a present concern. On the plus side, 2021/22 will be next to drop off and then Adidas will kick in in 2024/25. Even if the rules don't change a profitable 2023/24 + revenue growing in 2024/25 should put us in a much better position than we're in right now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Just now, Mills and Boon said: We won't follow the same trend because we'll have increased revenue from Sela, Adidas and the Champions League etc If we continue to spend as previous years, we might be close. We are amortizing previous spend who will add up as well. Let’s wait and see how it turn out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: And as previously mentioned this summer was the first year we offset some of our incomings with sales for actual money. The Wood and Maxi deals will have presented at worst wiping our noses on Wood from an FFP perspective and whilst many didn’t think Maxi went for enough, given the amortisation on his £12 arrival fee, probably represented a decent wedge in ffp terms I have us at a loss of -3m in terms of amortisation, but I have no clue about the operating losses. I'd assume it will be half of last year with around 30m in CL money (City got 80m for winning it) Takes us to 150m in losses over 3 years so we get dinged. So we need to probably sell 30m worth of players before July 1st - Adidas deal I would expect that will start on next years accounts? This is total guess work mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mills and Boon Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 3 minutes ago, High Five o said: If we continue to spend as previous years, we might be close. We are amortizing previous spend who will add up as well. Let’s wait and see how it turn out. I imagine we'll continue to work to the maximum FFP allows while increasing our income via commercial deals so we're able to spend more in the future Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 minute ago, TRC said: I have us at a loss of -3m in terms of amortisation, but I have no clue about the operating losses. I'd assume it will be half of last year with around 30m in CL money (City got 80m for winning it) Takes us to 150m in losses over 3 years so we get dinged. So we need to probably sell 30m worth of players before July 1st - Adidas deal I would expect that will start on next years accounts? This is total guess work mind. Yes, Adidas will be next year. This year's accounts note that UCL group stage money = ~£37m. That is higher than most outside estimates so I don't know if that includes increased matchday revenue (which would roughly line up perfectly) or if there's a bump in UEFA money this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 2 minutes ago, TRC said: I have us at a loss of -3m in terms of amortisation, but I have no clue about the operating losses. I'd assume it will be half of last year with around 30m in CL money (City got 80m for winning it) Takes us to 150m in losses over 3 years so we get dinged. So we need to probably sell 30m worth of players before July 1st - Adidas deal I would expect that will start on next years accounts? This is total guess work mind. So just off the top of my head there’s roughly £16m more prize money for finishing fourth over 11th (2.3 million per place), our TV revenue was up massively last season compared to previous years. The additional revenue from the league cup run and the SELA shirt sponsorship, not to mention the other announced smaller deals. i wouldn’t be worrying about us being able to spend in the summer or ending up over our FFP limit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
et tu brute Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 21 minutes ago, TRC said: That doesnt include this season, I assume this season we have similar losses? The revenue will increase though due to champions league money and the sela sponsorship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said: So just off the top of my head there’s roughly £16m more prize money for finishing fourth over 11th (2.3 million per place), our TV revenue was up massively last season compared to previous years. The additional revenue from the league cup run and the SELA shirt sponsorship, not to mention the other announced smaller deals. i wouldn’t be worrying about us being able to spend in the summer or ending up over our FFP limit. I think you're still mixing up accounting years and playing years and what's included in what. But I agree that of all the worrying things this is not one to add to the list. We've been consistent in our intent to abide by FFP and all related rules and we are not run by morons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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