KaKa Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 5 minutes ago, Kanji said: right so you can’t just keep painting a one sided argument bro. We don’t know why he signed for Chelsea over us. He does live in London, and Chelsea did offer a deal that met whatever he wanted to stay in London. He did have to relocate his family. So maybe there’s that? Why can’t anyone simply accept a high jack? Why is it always someone’s fault? A report came out saying we refused to add a release clause while Chelsea didn't. I said if that was the case it was a poor decision. Don't understand why all this fuss about that. And bringing all this other stuff into it that has nothing to do with what was reported. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 1 minute ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: But you don’t know what the clause was? It was a release clause that a free agent defender from Fulham requested. My gut instinct is that it was hardly something groundbreaking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 so we just didn’t agree it for shits and gigs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 I don’t know there’s enough interesting stuff going on on the pitch without having to imagine stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 He was rubbish today. Body positioning was a mess. Chelsea fans I know aren't happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 3 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: so we just didn’t agree it for shits and gigs. Downie says we didn't want to get into the habit of including release clauses. In this instance, for a player on a free, which would have significantly impacted what we could do elsewhere, I don't think it was the right call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 We had money to do things elsewhere. We didn’t use it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, KaKa said: Whatever they were, Chelsea agreed and we didn't, and we missed out on what was supposedly a key target to allow us to spend on other areas of the team. He was coming in on a free. I don't see the downside in agreeing to the clause. Well, you could make arguments about weakening our negotiating position with other squad members, signing a player who doesn't seem fully committed, rebuilding a sense that NUFC is a stepping stone rather than a destination. But even allowing for that I find it hard to disagree with your position. All reporting - contemporary and subsequent - suggests him switching away was a hammer blow to our plans. And the rest of the summer proves we weren't really in a strong bargaining position. All usual caveats about the truthfulness of the report apply... Edited October 20 by 80 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Well yeah it seems like you need to know what the stipulation was he wanted. The idea that we didn’t do an incredibly obvious thing for no compelling reason doesn’t really stack up. Neither does the fact it destroyed our window really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 I heard Tosin asked us to beat Chelsea's offer by just £1 and Eddie forcibly restrained Paul Mitchell with handcuffs. I believe witnesses called it worrying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 1 minute ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: Well yeah it seems like you need to know what the stipulation was he wanted. The idea that we didn’t do an incredibly obvious thing for no compelling reason doesn’t really stack up. Neither does the fact it destroyed our window really. I agree about the fully knowing the stipulation part. I'm not going to hang my opinion about anyone at the club on this story, I just thought it was interesting Downie reckoned he'd wanted to report this snippet since before his paternity leave. And like I say, I can see the perspective on not wanting to give him a clause for something like £18m, even if I might've done it. But I disagree that the idea it heavily affected/wrecked our summer doesn't stack up. It would've given us three months with £60m in our pocket to try and jazz up the right wing, which I think would've changed the character of our season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Would be amazed and deeply concerned if our entire transfer policy was predicated on signing Tosin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 Just now, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: Would be amazed and deeply concerned if our entire transfer policy was predicated on signing Tosin. There's been pretty substantial reporting that that was the case since it happened. We wanted a defender and RW/Forward, in that order of priority. If we couldn't get a free defender, it realistically meant using much of our limited budget on one and sacrificing attacking options. And, given how precarious our financial situation has been, I don't really find it surprising, or blameworthy to be honest. Freebies who we think can play a serious first team role for us are a massive fast forward button for the club given PSR and how little natural sales value we have in the team (outside of the Brunos etc.). Remove the fast forward button and everything downstream is badly impacted.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 I just don’t think that reality exists at all. He signed for Chelsea on the 7th June. The window closed on the 30th August. He has 104 of his 185 league appearances in the Championship. The idea that he should have been given whatever he wanted and that without him signing we’d be incapable of making any meaningful signings is just laughable. He's a footnote to a poor transfer window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 (edited) It is laughable, but unfortunately that was our approach. We've continuously heard Howe strangely say that there's only a small pool of players that will improve us, and so it shouldn't be a surprise that not landing Tosin led to the ridiculous situation we found ourselves in. It is with this context of Howe feeling only a few players could improve us that I think we then probably should have been a bit more flexible, if Tosin was supposedly one of those that fit the criteria. Ultimately, the whole approach to getting players in was not good. In fact it was unacceptable really. Edited October 20 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 20 Share Posted October 20 45 minutes ago, Shays Given Tim Flowers said: I just don’t think that reality exists at all. He signed for Chelsea on the 7th June. The window closed on the 30th August. He has 104 of his 185 league appearances in the Championship. The idea that he should have been given whatever he wanted and that without him signing we’d be incapable of making any meaningful signings is just laughable. He's a footnote to a poor transfer window. June, July, August - 3 months, and the hijack really occurred in mid-May as I recall. I'm not commenting on how good he is, but we definitely were on the verge of signing him and definitely wouldn't have spent a month or two trying to sign Guehi on top of Tosin and Kelly. It boils down to that, basically - any further attempts at meaningful signings would've been focused on a totally different part of the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 10 hours ago, David Edgar said: He was rubbish today. Body positioning was a mess. Chelsea fans I know aren't happy. What does that mean though? He's either a good player or he isn't. If he's shit then that means our scouting and recruitment team at that time got it wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Edgar Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 Nothing beyond what I said. Just he had a bad game and guys I know who support Chelsea aren't enamoured with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewel Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 We have to be more flexible and be more willing to take a risk or two in the market. I feel like the club is only willing to do a deal if all the pieces fall into place perfectly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 6 hours ago, TRon said: What does that mean though? He's either a good player or he isn't. If he's shit then that means our scouting and recruitment team at that time got it wrong. He's clearly not shit, but your modern day football fan writes off a player after a bad match against a title contender. He would've fitted perfectly into our team and saved us a hell of a lot of money which we could've spent transforming other parts of the squad. Tosin and Botman would've been a fantastic back 2 for a long time for not much money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelrouser Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 Maybe this release clause rumor is true (i don't think it is) but it seems more likely that a bigger signing bonus and salary and getting to stay in West London was probably more impactful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 He obviously had some unfortunate thinking going on if he chose Chelsea, both due to the fact they’re chaos and the fact they’ve got loads of CBs. He obviously preferred something other than pure football in his decision-making process, which is fair enough and up to him. Whether it’s location, easy life, finances or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 Which is the exact points I made yesterday; release clause or not, he chose to not uproot his life and family and signed for a top club in London. That may not fit the agenda on a release clause but it's absolutely a factor in ANY transfer whether anyone wants to discuss that or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 If I could double my wages to move across the road I would be tempted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted October 21 Share Posted October 21 2 minutes ago, Kanji said: Which is the exact points I made yesterday; release clause or not, he chose to not uproot his life and family and signed for a top club in London. That may not fit the agenda on a release clause but it's absolutely a factor in ANY transfer whether anyone wants to discuss that or not. 1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said: If I could double my wages to move across the road I would be tempted. Yes, you are both correct. However, we did appear to be strong favourites early on though, and perhaps could have tied things up sooner. Chelsea came in later on and gazumped us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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