Collage Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 7 hours ago, Loki679 said: I don't like him. He's got a stupid, smug face like a cartoon dog. He looks a bit like the mole in Chip’n’Dale Rescue Rangers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duo Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 I'll reserve judgement to after the Summer window. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 54 minutes ago, Mattoon said: Then you've proven my argument for me, there's a pecking order and Europe or no Europe it won't change much at all this summer. Basically us and Villa switch spots based on Europe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 6 hours ago, Novocastrian said: Who was the last decent player we bought? Possibly Thiaw but who was the one before? It seems such a long time ago. Honestly, if the rest of the signings weren’t as bad as they’ve been I suspect Thiaw’s performances would be severely questioned. Our backline has been terrible this season and he’s pretty much an ever-present. He’s very error prone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Premier League players with most errors leading to a shot (2025/26) James Tarkowski (Everton) – 7 Dominik Szoboszlai (Liverpool) – 5 Omar Alderete (Sunderland) – 5 Pedro Porro (Spurs) – 4 Bernd Leno (Fulham) – 4 Djed Spence (Spurs) – 4 Curtis Jones (Liverpool) – 4 Yasin Ayari (Brighton) – 4 Carlos Baleba (Brighton) – 4 Ethan Ampadu (Leeds) – 4 Casemiro (Man Utd) – 4 Mateus Fernandes (West Ham) – 4 Sven Botman (Newcastle) – 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Leads the league in last man saving tackles, is one of the league leaders in aerial duels won, has played almost twice the minutes of Botman, yet doesn’t appear on that list for errors leading to shots (Thiaw’s on 3, with 2 leading to goals). They’ve each additionally conceded one penalty in the league. Turns over possession less than his CB colleagues, and has also scored the same number as the rest of our CBs combined, which has to count for something, surely? ’Very error prone’ just isn’t true, is it? If he hadn’t been an almost ever-present, things would’ve been even worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Defensive errors that resulted in conceding a goal would be a much better bit of analysis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Rich said: Leads the league in last man saving tackles, is one of the league leaders in aerial duels won, has played almost twice the minutes of Botman, yet doesn’t appear on that list for errors leading to shots (Thiaw’s on 3, with 2 leading to goals). They’ve each additionally conceded one penalty in the league. Turns over possession less than his CB colleagues, and has also scored the same number as the rest of our CBs combined, which has to count for something, surely? ’Very error prone’ just isn’t true, is it? If he hadn’t been an almost ever-present, things would’ve been even worse. Probably best not to statistically compare his performances with his defensive colleagues because they’ve all been fucking shit. Like counting the hairs on the heads of a group of bald men to see who has the most luxurious locks. Edited May 14 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 2 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: Defensive errors that resulted in conceding a goal would be a much better bit of analysis Nah, as then the onus is on the person taking the shot, the goalkeeper, etc. The mistake leading to what Opta consider a ‘chance’ has been made and counted, so looking at the raw number is actually the way to go if we’re looking at who’s ’error prone’. Defensive errors tied to negative xG is what we really need, but I don’t think that’s available anywhere. (I’m actually being serious here, sorry.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 5 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: Probably best not to statistically compare his performances with his defensive colleagues because they’ve all been fucking shit. Like counting the hairs on the heads of a group of bald men to see who has the most luxurious locks. Cracking advice, cheers. Back into my box I go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 13 minutes ago, Rich said: Leads the league in last man saving tackles, is one of the league leaders in aerial duels won, has played almost twice the minutes of Botman, yet doesn’t appear on that list for errors leading to shots (Thiaw’s on 3, with 2 leading to goals). They’ve each additionally conceded one penalty in the league. Turns over possession less than his CB colleagues, and has also scored the same number as the rest of our CBs combined, which has to count for something, surely? ’Very error prone’ just isn’t true, is it? If he hadn’t been an almost ever-present, things would’ve been even worse. Last gasp tackles are often the result of poor positioning - I’m not at all convinced that they’re a mark of quality Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 11 minutes ago, Rich said: Nah, as then the onus is on the person taking the shot, the goalkeeper, etc. The mistake leading to what Opta consider a ‘chance’ has been made and counted, so looking at the raw number is actually the way to go if we’re looking at who’s ’error prone’. Defensive errors tied to negative xG is what we really need, but I don’t think that’s available anywhere. (I’m actually being serious here, sorry.) I’m not on the wind up here, I’m genuinely curious as to how it works. Thiaw slips in possession in his own half, ball is picked up by attacker, 5 passes later it’s in our net. Is that a defensive error leading to a shot ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 6 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Last gasp tackles are often the result of poor positioning - I’m not at all convinced that they’re a mark of quality Or, as I’ve seen him do a few times this season, he’s sprinting back to cover someone else and saving their bacon as much as his own. Still, when I wrote my post I genuinely knew that’s the bit you’d comment on and in the way you did, ignoring the rest. The only disappointment was that you didn’t quote Maldini. You’ve obviously got your viewpoint, you’re sticking to it, and you’re going to hammer it home at every opportunity, as you do. Crack on, I don’t know why I bothered trying to post an alternative and far less lazy/negative analysis of a player I consider to be one of the very few highlights of the campaign that should only get better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said: Last gasp tackles are often the result of poor positioning - I’m not at all convinced that they’re a mark of quality I thought that too. Like leading the stats for going home with a stinker because that’s all that was left on the dancefloor at 1.55am in Dontino’s. Edited May 14 by bobbydazzla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Prontonise Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 11 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Last gasp tackles are often the result of poor positioning - I’m not at all convinced that they’re a mark of quality Our defence has been shite with him in it still. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: I’m not on the wind up here, I’m genuinely curious as to how it works. Thiaw slips in possession in his own half, ball is picked up by attacker, 5 passes later it’s in our net. Is that a defensive error leading to a shot ? No, not the way Opta count it, or at least used to count it. It’s an error that leads directly to a chance/shot in the next action, so basically a significant fuckup with immediate consequences. The reason xG is useful there, is that it would at least assign a weight to how good the chance/shot created by the fuckup is, so it takes the quality of the shot, action of the goalkeeper/other defenders out of it. It’s basically a rating of how bad the error is, not just a ‘1’, which is all I can find publicly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novocastrian Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 5 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said: Honestly, if the rest of the signings weren’t as bad as they’ve been I suspect Thiaw’s performances would be severely questioned. Our backline has been terrible this season and he’s pretty much an ever-present. He’s very error prone. Yeah he’s been patchy, but who was our last decent signing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 minute ago, Rich said: No, not the way Opta count it, or at least used to count it. It’s an error that leads directly to a chance/shot in the next action, so basically a significant fuckup. The reason xG is useful there, is that it would at least assign a weight to how good the chance/shot created by the fuckup is, so it takes the quality of the shot, action of the goalkeeper/other defenders out of it. It’s basically a rating of how bad the error is, not just a ‘1’, which is all I can find publicly. Well then, in my opinion, it’s of limited use. Defensive mistakes leading to goals would be the one I’d like to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 There are better statistical models that would penalise Thiaw for an earlier error that set away a move leading to a goal or, but only full on stats perverts, teams, and serious gamblers would have access to those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 18 minutes ago, Rich said: Cracking advice, cheers. Back into my box I go. No need to crawl back into your box. Stay out and play for a bit longer. My point was just that the analysis shows he’s the best of a bad bunch. Which given how bad the bunch have been, isn’t saying much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 Just now, bobbydazzla said: Well then, in my opinion, it’s of limited use. Defensive mistakes leading to goals would be the one I’d like to see. I know I shouldn’t be arguing with you on this subject, but just because the end result is a goal, doesn’t make the player’s mistake any worse. It just means they didn’t get away with it. If we’re evaluating how error prone someone is, we really want to know how many fuckups they make that could cost their team a goal. That first stat I posted is of very limited use, but it’s the fairest one available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 4 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: No need to crawl back into your box. Stay out and play for a bit longer. My point was just that the analysis shows he’s the best of a bad bunch. Which given how bad the bunch have been, isn’t saying much. I did post some league stats, as well, in fairness, and was predictably promptly informed that good defenders don’t need to make last man tackles, ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fak Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 8 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said: No need to crawl back into your box. Stay out and play for a bit longer. My point was just that the analysis shows he’s the best of a bad bunch. Which given how bad the bunch have been, isn’t saying much. Has Hall not been the best of a bad bunch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 32 minutes ago, Fak said: Has Hall not been the best of a bad bunch? I don’t know, ask the stat nonces Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Spaceman Posted May 14 Share Posted May 14 1 hour ago, bobbydazzla said: Defensive errors that resulted in conceding a goal would be a much better bit of analysis What about xDETRICAG? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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