St James' Park

[TBG]

A half time quiz whilst sipping on a bottomless brunch prosecco would be class. 

[The College Dropout]

We used to be able to brag about the size and beauty of our stadium.  
 

First it was Arsenal, then West Ham, then Liverpool, then Spurs, now Everton are about to jump ahead. 
 

the swing of the scythe is remorseless. We must evolve. 

[Abacus]

Went to a bottomless brunch where I had literally three drinks as the staff all pretended to be busy.

 

Even though it wasn't at SJP or anything to do with NUFC in the first place, I still blame Paul Mitchell, Saudi Arabia and most of all Richard  Masters and the ESL six.

[Wolfcastle]

58 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

SJP is falling into Goodison Park territory. A heritage English stadium not compatible with stated ambition. 

The oldest part of SJP the East Stand was built in the mid/late 70s. All but one stand at Everton (built a year before the Gallowgate) is decades older than even  that.

[Wolfcastle]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We used to be able to brag about the size and beauty of our stadium.  
 

First it was Arsenal, then West Ham, then Liverpool, then Spurs, now Everton are about to jump ahead. 
 

the swing of the scythe is remorseless. We must evolve. 

Neither West Ham fans nor Arsenal fans brag about their stadium at all.

[SteV]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

About to have the 8th largest stadium in the league.  We are falling behind. 
 

If PIF / Reuben ambition is real I’m also looking for them to build supporting infrastructure. 
 

SOL gets the big stadium tours from Taylor Swift, Beyoncé etc. and the like no? Why is that? Surely that’s easy food for PIF and Reuben’s?

Lot of faith in Everton not getting relegated…

[Sibierski]

13 minutes ago, Wolfcastle said:

The oldest part of SJP the East Stand was built in the mid/late 70s. All but one stand at Everton (built a year before the Gallowgate) is decades older than even  that.

It’s newer, but within the concourses they’re so dated and crappy. Lopsided which is unique, but gives poor viewing angles and noise. 

 

It’s not in a bad position SJP at this moment, but by end of this decade it will be left behind if a new one isn’t set in motion.

 

Elland Road will be having a major face lift by end of this decade too, and you expect Man Utd too. Aston Villa seem to be going way of Liverpool for their stadium upgrade, so can remain whilst modernising and increasing size

 

Then it’s since the last time we’ve done anything to SJP…
 

Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Man Utd, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, Leeds all with major renovations / new builds. 

[Kanji]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

About to have the 8th largest stadium in the league.  We are falling behind. 
 

If PIF / Reuben ambition is real I’m also looking for them to build supporting infrastructure. 
 

SOL gets the big stadium tours from Taylor Swift, Beyoncé etc. and the like no? Why is that? Surely that’s easy food for PIF and Reuben’s?

 

Swift's Eras tour didn't hit SOL, did it?  

[Miggys First Goal]

3 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

Swift's Eras tour didn't hit SOL, did it?  

No, not Swift. But in recent years they’ve had Springsteen, Elton, Ed Sheeran, Foo Fighters and the aforementioned Beyoncé. 

[Kanji]

21 minutes ago, Sibierski said:

It’s newer, but within the concourses they’re so dated and crappy. Lopsided which is unique, but gives poor viewing angles and noise. 

 

It’s not in a bad position SJP at this moment, but by end of this decade it will be left behind if a new one isn’t set in motion.

 

Elland Road will be having a major face lift by end of this decade too, and you expect Man Utd too. Aston Villa seem to be going way of Liverpool for their stadium upgrade, so can remain whilst modernising and increasing size

 

Then it’s since the last time we’ve done anything to SJP…
 

Arsenal, Spurs, Man City, Man Utd, Aston Villa, Liverpool, Everton, West Ham, Leeds all with major renovations / new builds. 

 

I know all stadiums have their own challenges....planning takes fucking ages for the ones in the city centres like Arsenal, Spurs...

 

Arsenal bought a shit site in 2000 and eventually moved in 2006. 

Spurs had a near two decade long idea that was supposed to cost 250m and then cost over 1 billion. 

 

To just name a few. 

 

It would be nice if the club could acquire city-centre land freehold.  

 

[Kanji]

1 minute ago, Miggys First Goal said:

No, not Swift. But in recent years they’ve had Springsteen, Elton, Ed Sheeran, Foo Fighters and the aforementioned Beyoncé. 

 

Honestly insane to me  

[Sima]

46 minutes ago, Abacus said:

Went to a bottomless brunch where I had literally three drinks as the staff all pretended to be busy.

 

Even though it wasn't at SJP or anything to do with NUFC in the first place, I still blame Paul Mitchell, Saudi Arabia and most of all Richard  Masters and the ESL six.

Turns out I was being generous.

[timnufc22]

2 minutes ago, Miggys First Goal said:

No, not Swift. But in recent years they’ve had Springsteen, Elton, Ed Sheeran, Foo Fighters and the aforementioned Beyoncé. 

 

Transformative stuff apparently... so I'm confused why they haven't walked the Championship the last 2 years? Also confused how Spurs finished 8th the season before last and scraped 5th last season when they have so many gigs on and such a clear advantage?

 

I'm being slightly facetious of course, but you get the point.

[Kanji]

Go back to my post, the stadium is les about the income and more about the outward show of ambition as we grow as a club. The training ground/academy, however, is fucking massive and crucial for our long term growth. We need to be hoovering up all the local talent, have the top rated academy/facilities/coaching and constantly be building that side irrespective of the first team. 

 

(IMO). 

 

Gate receipts and boxes don't move the needle when we're clearly never going to raise prices to Chelsea or Arsenal or Spurs levels. 

 

We need the commercial sponsorships and we need to sell players. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 14:44 by Kanji

[The College Dropout]

I can actually agree with that Kanji.  It’s still a must have though. Revenue is revenue.  
 

Someone mentioned that Arsenal fans don’t brag about their stadium and that’s true. It’s considered old and dated. Ours is older and more dated.  
 

People want to argue that Goodison is in worse knick. Look at the levels we are discussing! We used to have one of the best most modern stadiums in the game.  
 

The longer we go without plans for infrastructure improvement the less I believe in this transformation.  

[TheInfiniteOdyssey]

They need to be better at communicating. Forget the name of the club official but it was ill-advised in hindsight to brief the journalists that a decision is ‘truly imminent’ and then say nothing else for another couple months. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 15:15 by TheInfiniteOdyssey

[Wallsendmag]

55 minutes ago, Miggys First Goal said:

No, not Swift. But in recent years they’ve had Springsteen, Elton, Ed Sheeran, Foo Fighters and the aforementioned Beyoncé. 

 

Think Pink sold out there as well. 

[timeEd32]

We have to have at least one of the following things to be genuinely competitive with the top 6 on an annual basis:

 

1) A stadium that allows us to grow our match day revenue to something in the neighborhood of £100m per year (today's dollars) and also provides a path to add £50-75m+ in commercial revenue that's tied to the stadium.

 

2) A genuinely world class first team and academy facility. The first team part is to attract quality players (this is more important than the stadium to a player) and the academy part to lure and develop the best young talent in the north of England and beyond. The academy has to both produce first team players and generate regular player sales to make up for the lack of revenue elsewhere.

 

I guess we could try to thread the needle with more moderate gains on #1 and #2, but I suspect we'd be chasing the pack forever.

 

Without one of those things then you are entirely reliant on recruitment having a better than average hit rate and coaching overachieving, neither one of which can be expected to occur regularly.

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

We have to have at least one of the following things to be genuinely competitive with the top 6 on an annual basis:

 

1) A stadium that allows us to grow our match day revenue to something in the neighborhood of £100m per year (today's dollars) and also provides a path to add £50-75m+ in commercial revenue that's tied to the stadium.

 

2) A genuinely world class first team and academy facility. The first team part is to attract quality players (this is more important than the stadium to a player) and the academy part to lure and develop the best young talent in the north of England and beyond. The academy has to both produce first team players and generate regular player sales to make up for the lack of revenue elsewhere.

 

I guess we could try to thread the needle with more moderate gains on #1 and #2, but I suspect we'd be chasing the pack forever.

 

Without one of those things then you are entirely reliant on recruitment having a better than average hit rate and coaching overachieving, neither one of which can be expected to occur regularly.

 

 

Made this same point in different forms and on different threads. The irony is that we have probably one of the few ownerships capable of delivering a brand new stadium costing billions of pounds, but IMO the reason they would do that is if they thought they could make NUFC among the top teams in the world. We can't do that under the present restrictions, and why would they want to build a world class stadium for a second rate team? If PIF feel that the game is rigged to stop us becoming "Number 1" then they might decide let's just treat it as it is - purely an investment.

[Jackie Broon]

Dream scenario would be an Etihad campus style facility at Castle Leazes, the existing St. James site and maybe Hunters Moor if more land is needed.

[Jack27]

2 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

Dream scenario would be an Etihad campus style facility at Castle Leazes, the existing St. James site and maybe Hunters Moor if more land is needed.

This but on the Arena site for me

[Kanji]

36 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

We have to have at least one of the following things to be genuinely competitive with the top 6 on an annual basis:

 

1) A stadium that allows us to grow our match day revenue to something in the neighborhood of £100m per year (today's dollars) and also provides a path to add £50-75m+ in commercial revenue that's tied to the stadium.

 

2) A genuinely world class first team and academy facility. The first team part is to attract quality players (this is more important than the stadium to a player) and the academy part to lure and develop the best young talent in the north of England and beyond. The academy has to both produce first team players and generate regular player sales to make up for the lack of revenue elsewhere.

 

I guess we could try to thread the needle with more moderate gains on #1 and #2, but I suspect we'd be chasing the pack forever.

 

Without one of those things then you are entirely reliant on recruitment having a better than average hit rate and coaching overachieving, neither one of which can be expected to occur regularly.

 

I agree with you 100% in principle but have some genuine questions…

- what is our current matchday income?

- what is our current non football income to the stadium?

- what is the delta to spurs and arsenal? And Liverpool to all of those?

 

- what is non football income to the stadium at Sunderland?

 

 

Without checking the numbers I think we’ll never get there on non football income until the city itself also improves in terms of lodging and airport (Imo) and we can def needle at it and maximize opportunities like Sunderland and basically cannibalize theirs and then add more with our growing commercial team and ownership group. 

[timeEd32]

11 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

I agree with you 100% in principle but have some genuine questions…

- what is our current matchday income?

- what is our current non football income to the stadium?

- what is the delta to spurs and arsenal? And Liverpool to all of those?

 

- what is non football income to the stadium at Sunderland?

 

 

Without checking the numbers I think we’ll never get there on non football income until the city itself also improves in terms of lodging and airport (Imo) and we can def needle at it and maximize opportunities like Sunderland and basically cannibalize theirs and then add more with our growing commercial team and ownership group. 

 

All 2022/23 numbers:

 

- Our matchday revenue was £38m

- I'm not sure but would guess <£6m

- Matchday income for the big 6 is as follows:

 

Man United, £136m

Tottenham, £118m (£45m in 2017)

Arsenal, £103m

Liverpool, £80m (£51m in 2014)

Chelsea, £70m

City, £72m (£47m in 2014)

 

- Sunderland attributed £8.4m of revenue (57% of their total commercial revenue) to "conferencing and banqueting." That includes concerts, a Lionnesses game, and college graduation. Remember that the SoL has even worse corporate hospitality than SJP. Capacity does go up to about 60k for concerts though.

[Pancrate1892]

5 hours ago, huss9 said:

oh aye.

these bottomless brunches a new thing?

daughter's 19 and she often out on them.

when she first told me i though it was something to do with food.

They are not to do with food? I thought bottomless was like eat as much shit as you can 

[Kanji]

36 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

All 2022/23 numbers:

 

- Our matchday revenue was £38m

- I'm not sure but would guess <£6m

- Matchday income for the big 6 is as follows:

 

Man United, £136m

Tottenham, £118m (£45m in 2017)

Arsenal, £103m

Liverpool, £80m (£51m in 2014)

Chelsea, £70m

City, £72m (£47m in 2014)

 

- Sunderland attributed £8.4m of revenue (57% of their total commercial revenue) to "conferencing and banqueting." That includes concerts, a Lionnesses game, and college graduation. Remember that the SoL has even worse corporate hospitality than SJP. Capacity does go up to about 60k for concerts though.

I’d love to know what / how an income bridge looks for ticket, hospitality, boxes, concessions etc versus those clubs. But you see my points, I hope. It’s a massive gap to bridge - if that gap is closed up by 30-40m with new stadium per year, then we’re on to something there. 
 

think you want to get to city and Liverpool’s level. I don’t think we have much chance with London clubs. 
 

again gotta factor in ticket prices in the main. People go berserk any time they are raised. 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 17:10 by Kanji