England

[Dave]

I'm sure McClaren just said 'we wanted six and we got four'.

 

Erm.

[ElDiablo]

Whatever happens, tonight shows England are one performance away from mutiny.  Personally i don't know how anyone could work like that. I think he'll walk before the years out.

[tmonkey]

England's performance was poor, but hopefully this is the end of Lampard's guaranteed spot in the first team, at least there may be a significant positive from this game.

 

But most importantly - thank God the international games are now over and we can get back to club football.

[Dave]

But most importantly - thank God the international games are now over and we can get back to proper football.

 

FYP.

[ElDiablo]

But most importantly - thank God the international games are now over and we can get back to club football.

 

Yep, although we've not go that much to look forward to.

[tmonkey]

But most importantly - thank God the international games are now over and we can get back to proper football.

 

FYP.

 

My bad.

[Guest smoggeordie]

Goal of the fucking season from Nugent. That's what we should pay all that money for.

[Dave]

But most importantly - thank God the international games are now over and we can get back to club football.

 

Yep, although we've not go that much to look forward to.

 

It's still better than internationals, fucking hate the whole thing outside of tournaments.

[tmonkey]

But most importantly - thank God the international games are now over and we can get back to club football.

 

Yep, although we've not go that much to look forward to.

 

At least its something to look forward to. I felt dead inside last weekend in terms of sporting enjoyment, just wished there was a fast forward button to hit and the internationals and all the crap surrounding them would just go away.

[Dr Spectrum]

Steven Gerrard 2, Frank Lampard 0.

 

David Nugent 1, Wayne Rooney 0.

 

That how it works? 

 

It would work like that if the world and his wife had been saying that David Nugent's - and the team as a whole - performances had been suffering because of the presence of Rooney, and Nugents performance tonight - rescuing the team from another s**** result because he had been given a platform due to the absense of Rooney - had vindicated those opinions. As far as I am aware, unlike Lampard vs Gerrard, none of those things are true, so, no 

 

You're taking the piss right? You're saying that Gerrard actually performed because Lampard wasn't playing? Does it occur to you that maybe if both of them had played in the centre, which was the original plan, that the result would still have been the same? No need for Gerrard to sit deep, no need for him to play wide.

 

Please tell me you're saying England won because Lampard didn't play. I'd love that

 

If Lampard was in the team, Steven Gerrard wouldn't have been in the position to get those two goals because he'd be either (a) out wide right or (b) babysitting. You can say there is no need for it, but thats what happens when they play together, Gerrard is the one who suffers with the presence of Lampard because he is more versatile. Even against Andorra they wouldn't both play in an attacking midfield role, its not like every time we attacked it ended up in a chance, when they clear the ball someone needs to be there to mop up and keep it ticking or you won' t be able to attack anywhere near as frequently. Gerrard would have been deep, no doubt about it IMO.

 

And yes, they would have won with Lampard too, Andorra are shite, but I don't think it would have been anywhere near as comfortable as it ultimately was. Gerrard's performance tonight - not in terms of ability to score goals, but in terms of character and leadership - was light years ahead of anything Lampard has ever produced in the same role. I think it would have been much tighter with Lampard playing there much like it was on Saturday but with us nicking it due to superior fitness/not playing against Ben Haim.

[Unlucky Luque]

If England played Andorra at Old Trafford, and for some strange reason no england supporters were there, Andorra could fit their entire population in

[Guest smoggeordie]

If England played Andorra at Old Trafford, and for some strange reason no england supporters were there, Andorra could fit their entire population in

 

TBH I wouldn't find it strange at all if no fucker decided to turn up.

[Ally]

That second goal by Gerrard shows why he should be the AM. He drives forward from central midfield better than anyone

[Guest kingdawson]

Lennon played well again, put some good crosses in. Dyer also looked lively when he came on. Nugent deserves to get chinned.

[thewellander]

If England played Andorra at Old Trafford, and for some strange reason no england supporters were there, Andorra could fit their entire population in

 

My god, you're right. I looked it up. 

 

Andorra Population: 71,201

[ohmelads]

It was Andorra for christ sake, and we played poorly. So I fail to understand why so many people say this shows why we should drop Lampard or why Gerrard is suddenly the great saviour. Get a grip of yourselves.

 

Surely if you're playing poorly against Andorra it is a sign that you have not found any sort of successful formula.

 

We were playing against a bunch of part-time footballers today. Andorra man! How anyone can draw conclusions about tactics and team selections from a performance like this I don't know. Let's judge the likes of Lampard and Gerrard in the big games where we will really need them. For me both of them have been a disappointment for a long time but I feel Lampard turns up more often for the big games against big opposition. Gerrard is perhaps the big game player at club level but on the international stage, if we were up against Brazil, France or Italy, I'd have more confidence in Lampard to pull the strings in midfield because of his sheer consistency.

 

But no, Gerrard scores twice against Andorra so that's it settled, he must play and Lampard must sit on the bench from now on.

[Ally]

It was Andorra for christ sake, and we played poorly. So I fail to understand why so many people say this shows why we should drop Lampard or why Gerrard is suddenly the great saviour. Get a grip of yourselves.

 

Surely if you're playing poorly against Andorra it is a sign that you have not found any sort of winning formula.

 

We were playing against a bunch of part-time footballers today. Andorra man! How anyone can draw conclusions about tactics and team selections from a performance like this I don't know. Let's judge the likes of Lampard and Gerrard in the big games where we will really need them. For me both of them have been a disappointment for a long time but I feel Lampard turns up more often for the big games against big opposition.

 

Obviously it was only Andorra, but I didn't see anyone else grab the game with the scruff like Gerrard did.

 

Lampard turns up more often for big games? Utter shit tbh pal. World Cup, Lampard has most shots in the tournament, no goals. Gerrard scores 2. Champions League final, Gerrard pretty much wins it on his own. Whens Lampard ever done anything like that?

[ohmelads]

It was Andorra for christ sake, and we played poorly. So I fail to understand why so many people say this shows why we should drop Lampard or why Gerrard is suddenly the great saviour. Get a grip of yourselves.

 

Surely if you're playing poorly against Andorra it is a sign that you have not found any sort of winning formula.

 

We were playing against a bunch of part-time footballers today. Andorra man! How anyone can draw conclusions about tactics and team selections from a performance like this I don't know. Let's judge the likes of Lampard and Gerrard in the big games where we will really need them. For me both of them have been a disappointment for a long time but I feel Lampard turns up more often for the big games against big opposition.

 

Obviously it was only Andorra, but I didn't see anyone else grab the game with the scruff like Gerrard did.

 

Lampard turns up more often for big games? Utter s*** tbh pal. World Cup, Lampard has most shots in the tournament, no goals. Gerrard scores 2. Champions League final, Gerrard pretty much wins it on his own. Whens Lampard ever done anything like that?

 

Gerrard won the champions league final pretty much on his own? Come on. I'm not going to talk about the two at club level because they're both excellent players, although Lampard's record this season speaks for itself. He's outscoring the vast majority of the league's strikers.

 

In my view neither should be dropped. If we want to win a world cup or a european championships, the answer is not to keep pissing about with team selection in the hope that we stumble across a magic formula. The answer is better management, tactics, coaching. We have the personnel to play good football, players who do it every week at club level.

 

Let's go back to Euro 2004 when Lampard was one of our best players and really made a difference in the big games. His goal against France or his goal against Portugal when we really needed something. Gerrard on the other hand was poor, could you imagine if Lampard made a back pass like the one Gerrard produced to give Henry an easy goal? He'd be crucified in the current climate. Lampard was poor in the world cup, but so was Gerrard, even if you include his goals against Paraguay and Sweden.

 

It's a case of looking at the bigger picture. There are a lot of English fringe players hyped up by the media at one time or another. The Defoes, Wright-Phillips, Lennons, hell even Jenas. Yet the majority of these don't deserve a look in and are as likely to let us down as the stars are. If you look at the sides who win world cups and european championships they nearly always go into the big games with their strongest possible teams. Is this a coincidence?

 

When it comes to England there are far too many knee-jerk reactions. Look at what has happened to Beckham for christ sake, and look what good it has done us.

[Guest smoggeordie]

It was Andorra for christ sake, and we played poorly. So I fail to understand why so many people say this shows why we should drop Lampard or why Gerrard is suddenly the great saviour. Get a grip of yourselves.

 

Surely if you're playing poorly against Andorra it is a sign that you have not found any sort of winning formula.

 

We were playing against a bunch of part-time footballers today. Andorra man! How anyone can draw conclusions about tactics and team selections from a performance like this I don't know. Let's judge the likes of Lampard and Gerrard in the big games where we will really need them. For me both of them have been a disappointment for a long time but I feel Lampard turns up more often for the big games against big opposition.

 

Obviously it was only Andorra, but I didn't see anyone else grab the game with the scruff like Gerrard did.

 

Lampard turns up more often for big games? Utter s*** tbh pal. World Cup, Lampard has most shots in the tournament, no goals. Gerrard scores 2. Champions League final, Gerrard pretty much wins it on his own. Whens Lampard ever done anything like that?

 

Gerrard won the champions league final pretty much on his own? Come on. I'm not going to talk about the two at club level because they're both excellent players, although Lampard's record this season speaks for itself. He's outscoring the vast majority of the league's strikers.

 

In my view neither should be dropped. If we want to win a world cup or a european championships, the answer is not to keep pissing about with team selection in the hope that we stumble across a magic formula. The answer is better management, tactics, coaching. We have the personnel to play good football, players who do it every week at club level.

 

Let's go back to Euro 2004 when Lampard was one of our best players and really made a difference in the big games. His goal against France or his goal against Portugal when we really needed something. He was poor in the world cup, but so was Gerrard even if you include his goals against Paraguay and Sweden.

 

It's a case of looking at the bigger picture. There are a lot of English fringe players hyped up by the media at one time or another. The Defoes, Wright-Phillips, Lennons, hell even Jenas. Yet the majority of these don't deserve a look in and are as likely to let us down as the stars are. If you look at the sides who win world cups and european championships they nearly always go into the big games with their strongest possible teams. Is this a coincidence?

 

T&T 

[tmonkey]

Maybe Lampard and Gerrard simply arent good players at international level?

 

I dont see why that cant be the case. Plenty of our lot in this country are happy to rule certain foreign players as "not suited to the style/pace of football in England", so why cant the opposite be the case for certain English players with regards to international football?

 

'Should Newcastle get Riquelme?'

"Nah, hed be shiite in the Premiership, wouldnt handle the pace and having no time on the ball".

 

Neither Lampard nor Gerrard are good for that level imo (whereas the likes of Riquelme are), and the same was the case for Beckham, who if you took away free kicks was utterly useless in all the major tournaments. These are carthorse players, good at thumping the ball with power, accuracy or swerve, but lack good technical ability and close control, and most importantly, comfort on the ball. When up against international teams who have these attributes in abundance, theyre useless - and no wonder, when theyre up against that type of opposition, England are constantly on the back foot because the other team can keep the ball all day long. They dont get the chance to make an impact, they arent afforded the freedom to do so, whereas against lesser teams they are.

[Yorkie]

Lampard has been utter dross for England, for absolutely ages now.

 

Gerrard and Lampard have shown on lots and lots and lots and lots of occassions now, that they cannot be accommodated together.

 

One of them is dropped, and the better one blossoms.

 

---

 

The game itself was pretty shit in all honesty, and i am certainly not feeling any more optimistic about the England national team, just because of that second half performance. The first half was apalling, and the second half was decent. It was alright. But we should have been 3-0 up against Andorra inside 30 minutes, never mind 92 minutes. It still simply wasn't good enough for me. I wouldn't say that he got the line-up wrong, wouldn't say that at all, but it was still pretty negative. Pass after pass after pass, and we weren't really going anywhere. We penetrated a bit more in the second half but it was largely the same.

 

This was Andorra for crying out loud. Aye - they had ten men behind the ball at all times, but we're England and tonight - we accommodated three (arguably) world class players. The rest out there tonight, week in week out, are regarded as good-to-great. We had far more skill and quality than this team of part-timers, and we should be beating these teams by significant margins.

 

But anyhow - a win is a win, and one might hope that this should get us back on track. There's a long wait for the next fixtures, but regardless, the players will be feeling a lot better. We've got Estonia next, who are shite - and then the two home games. Both of which are absolutely crucial - Israel and Russia. Both of them are decent sides, but if we are far superior to both of them, realistically - we should be beating them. For where we want to be - that needs to be nine points. Though i don't anticipate that - i anticipate more McClaren mediocrity.

 

The FA wants hanging for his appointment. Absolutely no idea how they expected him to improve our situation - when he was a pivotal figure in Sven's very ordinary reign. And what's more - how is Steve McClaren, former York/Hull/middle-of-the-road player, going to eclipse the achievements of someone who won the Serie A, the Cup Winners Cup and twice the Coppa Italia?

 

Crazy appointment. And it's showing.

[tmonkey]

PS, with regards to Gerrard and his inspiring 9 minutes against AC Milan.

 

He was good, and the biggest factor in Pool drawing level, but it needs to be remembered that the season before, Milan nearly crashed out of the Champions League after getting a comfortable lead against Sun Ji Park's PSV, when PSV went all out attack and Milan's defence crumbled. And the season before that, when Luque and his Deportivo side ripped into Milan, knocking them out of the CL with a 4-0 defeat, a result which turned around the 4-1 first leg victory Milan had.

 

Again, good 9 minutes from Gerrard and in a final too, but Ji Park had a great 90 minutes and tore that Milan defence to shreds just by running at them directly from an attacking midfield position, yet noone claims him to be world class. It was a specific problem with that Milan team, its something they have been heavily criticised for (ie a lack of bottle and complacency, despite having all class players).

 

Gerrard is clearly a great player when hes driving at teams from around 30 yards, but how hard is he to stop from doing this when he has no real pace, flair or trickery? There are a fair few good teams that simply wouldnt give him that luxury, moreso at international level, and thats the reason why hes so often been anonymous at higher levels. Granted, there will be moments when he gets the chance to do something, and he can deliver, but thats more the exception to the rule if anything.

[Tooj]

PS, with regards to Gerrard and his inspiring 9 minutes against AC Milan.

 

He was good, and the biggest factor in Pool drawing level, but it needs to be remembered that the season before, Milan nearly crashed out of the Champions League after getting a comfortable lead against Sun Ji Park's PSV, when PSV went all out attack and Milan's defence crumbled. And the season before that, when Luque and his Deportivo side ripped into Milan, knocking them out of the CL with a 4-0 defeat, a result which turned around the 4-1 first leg victory Milan had.

 

Again, good 9 minutes from Gerrard and in a final too, but Ji Park had a great 90 minutes and tore that Milan defence to shreds just by running at them directly from an attacking midfield position, yet noone claims him to be world class. It was a specific problem with that Milan team, its something they have been heavily criticised for (ie a lack of bottle and complacency, despite having all class players).

 

Gerrard is clearly a great player when hes driving at teams from around 30 yards, but how hard is he to stop from doing this when he has no real pace, flair or trickery? There are a fair few good teams that simply wouldnt give him that luxury, moreso at international level, and thats the reason why hes so often been anonymous at higher levels. Granted, there will be moments when he gets the chance to do something, and he can deliver, but thats more the exception to the rule if anything.

 

Hamann was immense in that final I thought.

[Troll]

I'm sure McClaren just said 'we wanted six and we got four'.

 

Erm.

 

Points from the Israel and Andora games, not goals.

[Dave]

I'm sure McClaren just said 'we wanted six and we got four'.

 

Erm.

 

Points from the Israel and Andora games, not goals.

 

Ah.