Bad striker buys. (Might be a positive thread be careful).

[Parky]

At Liverpool he's been in a rotation policy. Martins has been the only choice pretty much all season.

 

FYP

 

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

Thats a huge reason why I think Martins has done as well (if not better) than a lot of other strikers we could have got this season. If he had a striker who has to rely on service to get a lot of their goals we would have been buggered and if we signed a striker who is creative and needs someone to feed off their clever football we would have been fucked.

 

Spot on. blueyes.gif

[Isegrim]

At Liverpool he's been in a rotation policy. Martins has been the only choice pretty much all season.

 

FYP

 

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

Well, I like players more who regularly contribute to the game and make the team better as a unit. So I can easily do without a player whose only contribution is the occasional flash of magic and whose 'X' factor is to stand out in between crap. People often say that the goal from Martins saved us from relegation. I won't deny that, but I am not sure if actually a player with better positional play, better movement and better link up play would have made an even bigger impact in those games we lost easily as we couldn't create anything up front (i.e. the games against the likes of Charlton, Man City etc.)

[Guest alex]

Martins is living off the Spurs goal a tad in a lot of supporters eyes imo. And Parky, are you still arguing Kuyt was a bad buy btw?

[Cajun]

At Liverpool he's been in a rotation policy. Martins has been the only choice pretty much all season.

 

FYP

 

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

Well, I like players more who regularly contribute to the game and make the team better as a unit. So I can easily do without a player whose only contribution is the occasional flash of magic and whose 'X' factor is to stand out in between crap. People often say that the goal from Martins saved us from relegation. I won't deny that, but I am not sure if actually a player with better positional play, better movement and better link up play would have made an even bigger impact in those games we lost easily as we couldn't create anything up front (i.e. the games against the likes of Charlton, Man City etc.)

 

Owen is better at these parts of the game but is often completely anonymous. He was even shocking in the West Ham game but got a hattrick. 

[Isegrim]

At Liverpool he's been in a rotation policy. Martins has been the only choice pretty much all season.

 

FYP

 

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

Well, I like players more who regularly contribute to the game and make the team better as a unit. So I can easily do without a player whose only contribution is the occasional flash of magic and whose 'X' factor is to stand out in between crap. People often say that the goal from Martins saved us from relegation. I won't deny that, but I am not sure if actually a player with better positional play, better movement and better link up play would have made an even bigger impact in those games we lost easily as we couldn't create anything up front (i.e. the games against the likes of Charlton, Man City etc.)

 

Owen is better at these parts of the game but is often completely anonymous. He was even shocking in the West Ham game but got a hattrick. 

 

And? Of course a player can be poor at times, especially strikers relying on service. But in gerenal, Owen's all around game is way ahead of the game of Martins. It would have made much more sense to buy a supporting striker for Owen for the long term and maybe a goalgetter for the short term. This would have also saved us from relegation imho. But now we face the problem of having to multi-million pound strikers who probably hardly fit together. Martins game is very limited imho and I am not sure if actually the role he played at Inter was getting the best out of him - being a super sub to throw on at the end of matches. For 10m a bit of a luxury if you ask me.

[Cajun]

At Liverpool he's been in a rotation policy. Martins has been the only choice pretty much all season.

 

FYP

 

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

Well, I like players more who regularly contribute to the game and make the team better as a unit. So I can easily do without a player whose only contribution is the occasional flash of magic and whose 'X' factor is to stand out in between crap. People often say that the goal from Martins saved us from relegation. I won't deny that, but I am not sure if actually a player with better positional play, better movement and better link up play would have made an even bigger impact in those games we lost easily as we couldn't create anything up front (i.e. the games against the likes of Charlton, Man City etc.)

 

Owen is better at these parts of the game but is often completely anonymous. He was even shocking in the West Ham game but got a hattrick. 

 

And? Of course a player can be poor at times, especially strikers relying on service. But in gerenal, Owen's all around game is way ahead of the game of Martins. It would have made much more sense to buy a supporting striker for Owen for the long term and maybe a goalgetter for the short term. This would have also saved us from relegation imho. But now we face the problem of having to multi-million pound strikers who probably hardly fit together. Martins game is very limited imho and I am not sure if actually the role he played at Inter was getting the best out of him - being a super sub to throw on at the end of matches. For 10m a bit of a luxury if you ask me.

 

Maybe but we only bought in one striker so a support striker would have been useless with nothing to support.

 

We probably would have done better if we signed McCarthy and Anelka but we signed Martins and he has done a good job. Doesn't deserve half the stick he gets and the negative parts of his game are vastly exaggerated because people think others are over-rating him.

[Northern Monkey]

At Liverpool he's been in a rotation policy. Martins has been the only choice pretty much all season.

 

FYP

 

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

Well, I like players more who regularly contribute to the game and make the team better as a unit. So I can easily do without a player whose only contribution is the occasional flash of magic and whose 'X' factor is to stand out in between crap. People often say that the goal from Martins saved us from relegation. I won't deny that, but I am not sure if actually a player with better positional play, better movement and better link up play would have made an even bigger impact in those games we lost easily as we couldn't create anything up front (i.e. the games against the likes of Charlton, Man City etc.)

 

Owen is better at these parts of the game but is often completely anonymous. He was even shocking in the West Ham game but got a hattrick. 

 

And? Of course a player can be poor at times, especially strikers relying on service. But in gerenal, Owen's all around game is way ahead of the game of Martins. It would have made much more sense to buy a supporting striker for Owen for the long term and maybe a goalgetter for the short term. This would have also saved us from relegation imho. But now we face the problem of having to multi-million pound strikers who probably hardly fit together. Martins game is very limited imho and I am not sure if actually the role he played at Inter was getting the best out of him - being a super sub to throw on at the end of matches. For 10m a bit of a luxury if you ask me.

 

Maybe but we only bought in one striker so a support striker would have been useless with nothing to support.

 

We probably would have done better if we signed McCarthy and Anelka but we signed Martins and he has done a good job. Doesn't deserve half the stick he gets and the negative parts of his game are vastly exaggerated because people think others are over-rating him.

 

martins has done some good stuff, but he has also shown some glaring and serious deficiencies. to ignore these would be foolish. we desperately need a player to go alongside Owen, how  Martins will be accomodated is less important than getting the best personnel for the club.

[Mowen]

Martins has done well imo. He's not been brilliant, nor even the best signing we could have made but he has done well. Add to that the fact that if we sold him this summer it'd definitely be for a profit. He has his deficiences, most of which are fairly obvious, but in a more organsied and better coached team he will do very well.

[Cronky]

Kuyt is a fantastic player there is so much more to him than scoring goals his work rate is second to none!

I bet his team mates really appreciate him, I would love to see him play for Newcastle (not going to happen I know)

How anyone can suggest that he has been a failure is beyond me!

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

OH yes he WILL.

[Parky]

Kuyt is a fantastic player there is so much more to him than scoring goals his work rate is second to none!

I bet his team mates really appreciate him, I would love to see him play for Newcastle (not going to happen I know)

How anyone can suggest that he has been a failure is beyond me!

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

OH yes he WILL.

 

If he's better than the £30/40m worth of striking talent coming in he will.

[Guest BigAl2]

Kuyt is a fantastic player there is so much more to him than scoring goals his work rate is second to none!

I bet his team mates really appreciate him, I would love to see him play for Newcastle (not going to happen I know)

How anyone can suggest that he has been a failure is beyond me!

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

OH yes he WILL.

 

If he's better than the £30/40m worth of striking talent coming in he will.

 

If he isn't getting a game we should get a bid pronto!!

[Delima]

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

It is different though. Kezman is basically a poacher with a slight physique, whereas Kuyt, like Kalou, is an all rounder. It isn't surprising Huntelaar is yet to be bought by an European giant as he is similar Kezman, with his limitness rending him more highly floppable in foreign leagues.

 

Kalou, like Marins, is bought with future in mind. I wouldn't them mind not scoring tonnes of goals immediately, as long as they show potential and promise. Kuyt is bought to deliver immediate results, and I definitely won't say that he hasn't.

[Northern Monkey]

Like may Dutch forwards/wingers he is wildly overated mainly cause he scored a hatful of goals in a weak league. We will see, but I think Martins will score more (Owen you can bet your house on it) than Kalou or Kuyt next year. Kuyt overall game is better than Martins but he has no 'X' factor.

Martins has often scored when we were getting pummeled for posession and had no control of matches. I don't think he will ever have a first touch or develop the awareness of Anelka, but he will get his share of goals.

 

It is different though. Kezman is basically a poacher with a slight physique, whereas Kuyt, like Kalou, is an all rounder. It isn't surprising Huntelaar is yet to be bought by an European giant as he is similar Kezman, with his limitness rending him more highly floppable in foreign leagues.

 

Kalou, like Marins, is bought with future in mind. I wouldn't them mind not scoring tonnes of goals immediately, as long as they show potential and promise. Kuyt is bought to deliver immediate results, and I definitely won't say that he hasn't.

 

I agree Martins has shown promise. Thing is, teams like us don't spend THAT much money on a player "for the future" - not when you only have one actual striker at the club, and he's crocked.

[STM]

Kuyt and Martins would make a good partnership IMO.

 

Completly different types of strikers, from completly different footballing backgrounds.

 

Out of the two i would have signed.................................... Benni McCarthy

[Guest Rafa]

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

 

oh yes he will.

 

Kuyt has had a decent, if not great first season. The one issue is his lack of pace, but Liverpool would have known about that when they signed him. So it obviously isn't a huge issue to them.

 

Of the strikers we have now, Crouch and Kuyt should be here for the long term, both are good strikers that both offer a very different style of play, and if Liverpool get a good goal scorer in, there is no reason whatsover to suggest that Kuyt wouldn't be a regular. He will be. They have two good all rounders who work their arses off for the team are are good for 15 - 20 goals each. What Liverpool need is a bit more variation in their forwards, and a bit more quality to add to what they have. But hell - who doesn't need a bit more quality eh!

[Parky]

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

 

oh yes he will.

 

Kuyt has had a decent, if not great first season. The one issue is his lack of pace, but Liverpool would have known about that when they signed him. So it obviously isn't a huge issue to them.

 

Of the strikers we have now, Crouch and Kuyt should be here for the long term, both are good strikers that both offer a very different style of play, and if Liverpool get a good goal scorer in, there is no reason whatsover to suggest that Kuyt wouldn't be a regular. He will be. They have two good all rounders who work their arses off for the team are are good for 15 - 20 goals each. What Liverpool need is a bit more variation in their forwards, and a bit more quality to add to what they have. But hell - who doesn't need a bit more quality eh!

 

Crouch will be sold and Kuyt will step down the pecking order when Villa and one other arrive. Kuyt is ok and has done a goodish job, but for me hasn't lived upto the hype when it seemed 2/3 years ago 12 clubs were after him.

[Northern Monkey]

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

 

oh yes he will.

 

Kuyt has had a decent, if not great first season. The one issue is his lack of pace, but Liverpool would have known about that when they signed him. So it obviously isn't a huge issue to them.

 

Of the strikers we have now, Crouch and Kuyt should be here for the long term, both are good strikers that both offer a very different style of play, and if Liverpool get a good goal scorer in, there is no reason whatsover to suggest that Kuyt wouldn't be a regular. He will be. They have two good all rounders who work their arses off for the team are are good for 15 - 20 goals each. What Liverpool need is a bit more variation in their forwards, and a bit more quality to add to what they have. But hell - who doesn't need a bit more quality eh!

 

Crouch will be sold and Kuyt will step down the pecking order when Villa and one other arrive. Kuyt is ok and has done a goodish job, but for me hasn't lived upto the hype when it seemed 2/3 years ago 12 clubs were after him.

 

ITK? No, just guesswork. Well done.

[Parky]

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

 

oh yes he will.

 

Kuyt has had a decent, if not great first season. The one issue is his lack of pace, but Liverpool would have known about that when they signed him. So it obviously isn't a huge issue to them.

 

Of the strikers we have now, Crouch and Kuyt should be here for the long term, both are good strikers that both offer a very different style of play, and if Liverpool get a good goal scorer in, there is no reason whatsover to suggest that Kuyt wouldn't be a regular. He will be. They have two good all rounders who work their arses off for the team are are good for 15 - 20 goals each. What Liverpool need is a bit more variation in their forwards, and a bit more quality to add to what they have. But hell - who doesn't need a bit more quality eh!

 

Crouch will be sold and Kuyt will step down the pecking order when Villa and one other arrive. Kuyt is ok and has done a goodish job, but for me hasn't lived upto the hype when it seemed 2/3 years ago 12 clubs were after him.

 

ITK? No, just guesswork. Well done.

 

You want something?

[Northern Monkey]

 

At Liverpool he's scored ONE more goal than Martins. He is 4/5 years older and he has NO pace. Liverpool have struggled all season with their lacklustre forward line. He will NOT be first choice next term.

 

 

oh yes he will.

 

Kuyt has had a decent, if not great first season. The one issue is his lack of pace, but Liverpool would have known about that when they signed him. So it obviously isn't a huge issue to them.

 

Of the strikers we have now, Crouch and Kuyt should be here for the long term, both are good strikers that both offer a very different style of play, and if Liverpool get a good goal scorer in, there is no reason whatsover to suggest that Kuyt wouldn't be a regular. He will be. They have two good all rounders who work their arses off for the team are are good for 15 - 20 goals each. What Liverpool need is a bit more variation in their forwards, and a bit more quality to add to what they have. But hell - who doesn't need a bit more quality eh!

 

Crouch will be sold and Kuyt will step down the pecking order when Villa and one other arrive. Kuyt is ok and has done a goodish job, but for me hasn't lived upto the hype when it seemed 2/3 years ago 12 clubs were after him.

 

ITK? No, just guesswork. Well done.

 

You want something?

 

Some facts, rather than shite you make up, but i realise that you are the wrong person to ask for that.

[Delima]

I agree Martins has shown promise. Thing is, teams like us don't spend THAT much money on a player "for the future" - not when you only have one actual striker at the club, and he's crocked.

 

What do you mean "team like us"? Financially comparable to us, or aspiration comparable to us, or club (fan) size comparable to us?

 

I agree with you that we should have bought someone proven such as Kuyt, Johnson and Bent. I'd say no to Anelka as he is hard to handle. But Martin isn't exactly unproven, for he has had decent record in Serie A. Last summer I said that I would be happy for Roeder to buy any 10M bracket striker (Kuyt, Bent, Johnson, Berbatov, Martins). These players have different advantages and disadvantates and they offset each other nicely. The biggest boat we miss is definitely Berbatov as he has proven to be head and shoulder above all but we haven't done a bad business on Martins. Not at all.

 

Talking about Berbatov. Who were the people who laugh at Martin Jol when he mentioned that Berbatov was coming to England?

[Delima]

Crouch will be sold and Kuyt will step down the pecking order when Villa and one other arrive. Kuyt is ok and has done a goodish job, but for me hasn't lived upto the hype when it seemed 2/3 years ago 12 clubs were after him.

 

Hype is made by media and consumed by fans. Regardless of the hype, the eventual transfer feed 10M paid on Kuyt is a very good business for Liverpool and how could someone say that he hasn't lived up to his price tag?

 

Now 5M on Damien Duff is a bad bad business, regardless of the hype and reputation he has. Had we sell Milner it would be another bad bad business.

[Parky]

Crouch will be sold and Kuyt will step down the pecking order when Villa and one other arrive. Kuyt is ok and has done a goodish job, but for me hasn't lived upto the hype when it seemed 2/3 years ago 12 clubs were after him.

 

Hype is made by media and consumed by fans. Regardless of the hype, the eventual transfer feed 10M paid on Kuyt is a very good business for Liverpool and how could someone say that he hasn't lived up to his price tag?

 

Now 5M on Damien Duff is a bad bad business, regardless of the hype and reputation he has. Had we sell Milner it would be another bad bad business.

 

I don't think in any scenario £10m for what has turned out to be an average striker is good business. Kuyt was one of them bought to make a differance he hasn't Liverpool will finish 3/4 again. Tier one strikers are hard to come by...IMO Martins has much more to offer as a goalscorer than Kuyt or Bambi heart Kalou who shits himself as soon as he sees the goal.

[Guest Rafa]

just to be really pedantic, he cost £9 million

 

I guess it says a lot about the modern football fan, that a player is dismissed after less than a season. Particularly strange as well, as the player being dismissed, has had a decent first season. And Liverpool's season isn't over either.

 

I'm sure most Liverpool fans would be honest enough to say they haven't been blown away by Kuyt, but most would also say that they realise what he brings to the team, and see why he was wanted and would expect him to carry on improving in his 2nd season here.  And I'm sure not many of us are too concerned that it's you Parky, with your great expertise on Liverpool players, is the one dismissing him  :parky:

 

And Delima, good line: 'Hype is made by media and consumed by fans' - as it's just so very very true.

[Parky]

just to be really pedantic, he cost £9 million

 

I guess it says a lot about the modern football fan, that a player is dismissed after less than a season. Particularly strange as well, as the player being dismissed, has had a decent first season. And Liverpool's season isn't over either.

 

I'm sure most Liverpool fans would be honest enough to say they haven't been blown away by Kuyt, but most would also say that they realise what he brings to the team, and see why he was wanted and would expect him to carry on improving in his 2nd season here.  And I'm sure not many of us are too concerned that it's you Parky, with your great expertise on Liverpool players, is the one dismissing him  :parky:

 

And Delima, good line: 'Hype is made by media and consumed by fans' - as it's just so very very true.

 

Tbh I don't even rate Rafa. 

[Parky]

just to be really pedantic, he cost £9 million

 

I guess it says a lot about the modern football fan, that a player is dismissed after less than a season. Particularly strange as well, as the player being dismissed, has had a decent first season. And Liverpool's season isn't over either.

 

I'm sure most Liverpool fans would be honest enough to say they haven't been blown away by Kuyt, but most would also say that they realise what he brings to the team, and see why he was wanted and would expect him to carry on improving in his 2nd season here.  And I'm sure not many of us are too concerned that it's you Parky, with your great expertise on Liverpool players, is the one dismissing him  :parky:

 

And Delima, good line: 'Hype is made by media and consumed by fans' - as it's just so very very true.

 

 

 

That is a Spurs supporter answer. Don't they say that about nearly all their players? mackems.gif