TêteDeMaure Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Bye bye Owen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I'm rolling with my boy 'Quadzilla' on this one ... aka Oba Martins. Owen is about as tough as a mosquitoe. Did you see him go down when Pattison slightly brushed by him? Goodness grief ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Where is all this hatred for Martins coming from? I thought after only one season in a foreign league our fans would be at least some what understanding. What is it that you lot want from a player? Fuckin' hell. Don't hate him, just don't think he's as good as people make out and would sooner have Owen with a bigger centre-forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I'm rolling with my boy 'Quadzilla' on this one ... aka Oba Martins. Owen is about as tough as a mosquitoe. Did you see him go down when Pattison slightly brushed by him? Goodness grief ... Are you for real? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I'm rolling with my boy 'Quadzilla' on this one ... aka Oba Martins. Owen is about as tough as a mosquitoe. Did you see him go down when Pattison slightly brushed by him? Goodness grief ... Are you for real? HELL YEAH! Owen ain't shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!! Seriously though I'd rather keep Martins. I love the guy. I have watched him now for years and trust me he can be so much better and will be. Please don't forget this was his first season ever as a first team player. A lot of the complaints about his touch and movement were the same complaints that were initially made about Drogba! Trust me he will emerge as in a very similar way to Drogba next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Whoever goes, I'd be banging on at Viduka to come in on a Free. Still don't know why people don't rate him. So what if he's fat. Tevez isn't exactly slim is he? Viduka's scoring record and all-round play is excellent. Think he'd be perfect for Owen. Agree that Viduka is a good player, and with Allardyce as manager theres good reason to sign a good player on a free. But im still suspicious of him, mainly because he seems the type of waster that would hit form when a lucrative Bosman is around the corner. Make no mistake about it, he knows this is his last big money move - as a Bosman hell get high wages and signing on fees, and its no doubt his last "long" term contract deal he'll get offered as in a few years time he'll either retire or become a journeyman player, and hence you possibly have the reasons/motivation for his improved fitness record and form this term. Who knows, maybe hes completely misunderstood and will turn out to be a great signing for whoever lands him ala Kanu for Pompey this season, but taking into account our luck with wasters who have come here to bleed the club dry and leave whilst giving us nothing in return, I think there are valid reasons to want to look elsewhere, despite him being a good player in great form at the moment. Again though, theres probably noone better than Allardyce to get the best out of this type of player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest posadageordie Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 I'm rolling with my boy 'Quadzilla' on this one ... aka Oba Martins. Owen is about as tough as a mosquitoe. Did you see him go down when Pattison slightly brushed by him? Goodness grief ... Are you for real? Plus most of the time he was chasing hopeful long balls coming down with snow on them, not receiving quality service. And he didn't have a single decent strike partner for the vast majority of the year, in the circumstances 17 goals is a miracle really. HELL YEAH! Owen ain't shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit!!! Seriously though I'd rather keep Martins. I love the guy. I have watched him now for years and trust me he can be so much better and will be. Please don't forget this was his first season ever as a first team player. A lot of the complaints about his touch and movement were the same complaints that were initially made about Drogba! Trust me he will emerge as in a very similar way to Drogba next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 And Drogba was still playing in the French second division at Martins' age - 62 appearances, 11 goals. Don't let that stop some people on here from being able to know whether a player will make it at the age of 5 though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Serious question Wullie. What aspects of Martins game can you see him improving on in the next year or two? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 If Owen was guaranteed to stay and be injury free I'd choose him, however I think he'll be away first chance he gets, there's also the point about the size of his wages, we need to get a structure in place and while he's here on £100k + and Dyer on £80k we'll never be able to do that. Another thing with Martins is he can adapt to pretty much any formation we want to play, where as Owen is a 4-4-2 man and can do little else. Oba seems to come in for a lot of criticism on here, some of it's deserved but some of it is way over the top IMO, his first touch is shit and so is his movement but this is nothing that couldn't be sorted with good coaching, Allardyce is known to employ a skills coach which works on the basic skills like this and helps them improve their general game, that's why Diouf looked far better for Bolton than he ever did at Liverpool, Spurs employ one too which is why Aaron Lennon has developed into a much better allround player this season. See Owen, buy Anelka and play 4-3-3 with these two either side of Viduka. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Serious question Wullie. What aspects of Martins game can you see him improving on in the next year or two? Movement. With the right coaching he wouldn't be offside all the time. I think Harry Redknapp brought in someone specifically to help Yakubu and their other strikers with this problem. If his confidence is consistantly high he'll also play much better, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Nut, have you seen who has been coaching Martins for the past year? I would like to see how he is with Big Sam in charge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Serious question Wullie. What aspects of Martins game can you see him improving on in the next year or two? Let me tell you what Martins' real problem is ... he tends to rush things especially when he starts trying too hard. This causes his first touch to go down the toilet and affects his finishing also. He was under too much pressure to perform because no one else was scoring. Also, chances were so few and far between that the pressure was even worse. For your homework, look at the difference in how he plays when he gets an early goal/when the team is ahead and very comfortable, and compare it to when we are creating no chances and we are playing badly. You will see two very different players. It was his first season here and he was wearing Shearer's No. 9 in an unbelievably poor team, and he had to score all the goals. He pressed a bit too hard that is all. You do not want to let this boy go trust me. He is dynamite! An explosive force that could go off at any moment. You better pray it is while he is at this club. Mourinho knows and that is why he was sniffing around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Also we could also sell Oba in a year or two for decent money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Nut, have you seen who has been coaching Martins for the past year? I would like to see how he is with Big Sam in charge. But the 3 years before that, he'd been playing alongside and under some of the best strikers of the last decade. Surely he'd have learned the basics already? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Would help him having a decent strike partner. College Dropout is right about the movement though, Id expect him to improve dramatically on that front, although his sporadic movement in the box is sometimes one of his stronger points, how many times have we seen him pull back rather than get right into the goal mouth, then receive the ball and fire it home. He still has alot to learn about the game over here and how to get the best of opposition defences, with the right coaching he can be imense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 He's a different style of player to all them though. I think Big Sam could make him very effective, like he did with Diouf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 What the others have said really. Martins has most of the attributes to be a top class striker, two good feet, good in the air despite being small, very strong, powerful shot, plenty 'tricks in his locker', ridiculous pace, good link up play, the work-rate and the will to win. So he's not perfect. If he'd been perfect, we'd not have got him for £10m at his age. With the right coaching - not what he's been getting here off Moe, Larry and Curly - he can do anything he wants. Touch and movement need work, that's what training is for. Maybe it's because our training has been so sub-standard for years that we expect the finished article immediately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Nut, have you seen who has been coaching Martins for the past year? I would like to see how he is with Big Sam in charge. But the 3 years before that, he'd been playing alongside and under some of the best strikers of the last decade. Surely he'd have learned the basics already? It's not as simple as though is it? Bellamy's finishing improved a lot when he went to Blackburn, but he wasn't as good a finisher here when he was playing next to one of the greatest finishers in English football, why was this? You also have to look at Inter's record for developing young talent, it's as bad as ours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Nut, have you seen who has been coaching Martins for the past year? I would like to see how he is with Big Sam in charge. But the 3 years before that, he'd been playing alongside and under some of the best strikers of the last decade. Surely he'd have learned the basics already? He's been in a new league and scored 17 goals, 11 in that league and you think he doesn't know "the basics"? Howay Nut, you're not stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 What the others have said really. Martins has most of the attributes to be a top class striker, two good feet, good in the air despite being small, very strong, powerful shot, plenty 'tricks in his locker', ridiculous pace, good link up play, the work-rate and the will to win. So he's not perfect. If he'd been perfect, we'd not have got him for £10m at his age. With the right coaching - not what he's been getting here off Moe, Larry and Curly - he can do anything he wants. Touch and movement need work, that's what training is for. Maybe it's because our training has been so sub-standard for years that we expect the finished article immediately. Devil's Advocate here: What do you think his market value is right now? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Rumours in the last few weeks linking Martins with a £15m away, and Owen £11m. If you HAD to sell one and could keep the other, who would you sell? I'd sell Martins, and consider him as a one-year loan deal while Owen was injured with us making a tidy £5m profit. I've changed my stance on owen. I would like him to stay, and if he wants to, i will be pleased. But if he doesn't, he can go and i will hold no grudge - and it may be fine for us. With £9mil we can get someone suited to partners martins and that does not have a bad injury record. You have to think, even if owen tries to do the honourable thing and stays another year, he wont be here past that - unless we improve fast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 What the others have said really. Martins has most of the attributes to be a top class striker, two good feet, good in the air despite being small, very strong, powerful shot, plenty 'tricks in his locker', ridiculous pace, good link up play, the work-rate and the will to win. So he's not perfect. If he'd been perfect, we'd not have got him for £10m at his age. With the right coaching - not what he's been getting here off Moe, Larry and Curly - he can do anything he wants. Touch and movement need work, that's what training is for. Maybe it's because our training has been so sub-standard for years that we expect the finished article immediately. Devil's Advocate here: What do you think his market value is right now? £12million/£13million Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Crouch is another example how a good coaching set up can improve a player, I laughed my bollocks of when Liverpool signed him as he was shit, he scored a few goals in the 2 months before he joined them but he was never the standard for a top half team. Now look at him, he's worked with coaches who have improved every aspect of him game, he's a top player now and proved me as well as many others wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted May 13, 2007 Share Posted May 13, 2007 Martins had done ok. We have had little or no shape all season. He hasnt had a settled partner all season. The fact that so many rate James Milner is indicative of how far we have suffered in terms of personnel capable of providing opportunities. He has a poor first touch at times and at others it seems fine. There is something to be worked on bearing in mind he is just a young lad. Not sure he fits into the system Allardyce played at Bolton but who is to say he will use it here? Different personnel are available to him and a different budget to that he is used to. If he doesnt do it in the second season then we are a few quid down but I cant imagine he wont have his suitors. Wouldnt be surprised to see Owen gone. If I was him I would be away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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