Owen

[Optimistic Nut]

If Martins has as a good a season next season for Newcastle as what Drogba did for Chelsea last, I will name my first child Obafemi. No chance will he.

 

Its true though, its not that long ago people were slating Drogba. I found a post on Toontastic th other day where someone was claiming Drogba and Crespo were average.

 

I see what you mean, but Drogba had the attributes (ie finishing, holding up the ball, movement, etc) before he went to Chelsea, it was just about getting that out of him in English football. I'm not convinced the same will be said about Martins. He'll be more like a Wiltord type imo. Will get you anything between 12-18 goals a season, but will have many a poor performance in the process.

 

Why did Drogba only get 11 goals in 60 odd games in the French second division at Martins' age then?

 

So are you willing to give Martins 5-6 years just in the hope he'll become as good as him?

[KaKa]

Pace, power and workrate. Bramble was pretty quick, was as strong as they come, and tried hard...just wasn't very good at football though unfortunately.

 

Wow ... I can't believe you just went there. You ought to be ahamed of yourself.

 

Absolute nonsense. Worst comparison ever.

 

Martins never broke into the Inter Milan team as they never committed to him as a first team player. They just brought him off the bench for the most part. Besides he is very much a premiership player as the Italian league is not a fast paced league. It is all defending and sitting deep which is not ideal fior the likes of Martins.

 

I have to say a very twisted side of me is hoping he ends up at Arsenal just so I can hear what you have to say for yourselves when he lights up the league.

 

But I will hope he stays over Owen and Big Sam clicks with him instead, because I know exactly what will happen. That number 9 on his back will look so much more at home.

[Guest Gemmill]

Pace, power and workrate. Bramble was pretty quick, was as strong as they come, and tried hard...just wasn't very good at football though unfortunately.

 

Wow ... I can't believe you just went there. You ought to be ahamed of yourself.

 

Absolute nonsense. Worst comparison ever.

 

Martins never broke into the Inter Milan team as they never committed to him as a first team player. They just brought him off the bench for the most part. Besides he is very much a premiership player as the Italian league is not a fast paced league. It is all defending and sitting deep which is not ideal fior the likes of Martins.

 

I have to say a very twisted side of me is hoping he ends up at Arsenal just so I can hear what you have to say for yourselves when he lights up the league.

 

But I will hope he stays over Owen and Big Sam clicks with him instead, because I know exactly what will happen. That number 9 on his back will look so much more at home.

 

I'd be a lot more inclined to listen to the way you talk with such authority about the player if there was ANYTHING to back up your claims that he's some sort of wunderkind.  You're just making ludicrous predictions about how amazing he is and how stupid we'll all feel when he proves it.  Until such time that your predictions come true, you'd do well to recognise that that's all they are - predictions.  In the real world where the rest of us live, Obafemi Martins looks nothing like the player you seem to think he is.

[Wullie]

If Martins has as a good a season next season for Newcastle as what Drogba did for Chelsea last, I will name my first child Obafemi. No chance will he.

 

Its true though, its not that long ago people were slating Drogba. I found a post on Toontastic th other day where someone was claiming Drogba and Crespo were average.

 

I see what you mean, but Drogba had the attributes (ie finishing, holding up the ball, movement, etc) before he went to Chelsea, it was just about getting that out of him in English football. I'm not convinced the same will be said about Martins. He'll be more like a Wiltord type imo. Will get you anything between 12-18 goals a season, but will have many a poor performance in the process.

 

Why did Drogba only get 11 goals in 60 odd games in the French second division at Martins' age then?

 

So are you willing to give Martins 5-6 years just in the hope he'll become as good as him?

 

What a daft question. Newcastle can't afford to buy players of Drogba's calibre who will drop straight in and get 20 a season straight away and be superb every game - even Drogba himself didn't, we know that, that's why he was getting booed by the Chelsea fans in his first season. Presumably you'd have sold the 22 year old Drogba off as not good enough, seeing as his goal rate at that age was not even as good as Oba's when he was 18-19.

 

Players like Martins' are the best we can go for - fringe players who are on the up and have the potential to go all the way - for what it's worth, I think Martins will be absolute dynamite in a few years time.

[Optimistic Nut]

Fair enough, that's your view.

 

And to counter the Drogba argument as to a player taking so long, in Dean Ashton's first 77 games for Crewe in the 2nd & 3rd tiers of English football, he only scored 20 goals. He'd grown out of it by 19-20 though.

[KaKa]

Pace, power and workrate. Bramble was pretty quick, was as strong as they come, and tried hard...just wasn't very good at football though unfortunately.

 

Wow ... I can't believe you just went there. You ought to be ahamed of yourself.

 

Absolute nonsense. Worst comparison ever.

 

Martins never broke into the Inter Milan team as they never committed to him as a first team player. They just brought him off the bench for the most part. Besides he is very much a premiership player as the Italian league is not a fast paced league. It is all defending and sitting deep which is not ideal fior the likes of Martins.

 

I have to say a very twisted side of me is hoping he ends up at Arsenal just so I can hear what you have to say for yourselves when he lights up the league.

 

But I will hope he stays over Owen and Big Sam clicks with him instead, because I know exactly what will happen. That number 9 on his back will look so much more at home.

 

I'd be a lot more inclined to listen to the way you talk with such authority about the player if there was ANYTHING to back up your claims that he's some sort of wunderkind.  You're just making ludicrous predictions about how amazing he is and how stupid we'll all feel when he proves it.  Until such time that your predictions come true, you'd do well to recognise that that's all they are - predictions.  In the real world where the rest of us live, Obafemi Martins looks nothing like the player you seem to think he is.

 

Fair enough.

 

They are just my predictions but I grew up following his career closely and I hve seen him at his confident best and I have no doubt that with a bit of guidance he could be special.

 

Don't mean to come accross as being pushy but my faith in him is very strong. Not only does he have the ability but he has the committment too.

 

I guess we can only wait to see what happens as you say.

[Parky]

If Martins has as a good a season next season for Newcastle as what Drogba did for Chelsea last, I will name my first child Obafemi. No chance will he.

 

Its true though, its not that long ago people were slating Drogba. I found a post on Toontastic th other day where someone was claiming Drogba and Crespo were average.

 

I see what you mean, but Drogba had the attributes (ie finishing, holding up the ball, movement, etc) before he went to Chelsea, it was just about getting that out of him in English football. I'm not convinced the same will be said about Martins. He'll be more like a Wiltord type imo. Will get you anything between 12-18 goals a season, but will have many a poor performance in the process.

 

Why did Drogba only get 11 goals in 60 odd games in the French second division at Martins' age then?

 

So are you willing to give Martins 5-6 years just in the hope he'll become as good as him?

 

What a daft question. Newcastle can't afford to buy players of Drogba's calibre who will drop straight in and get 20 a season straight away and be superb every game - even Drogba himself didn't, we know that, that's why he was getting booed by the Chelsea fans in his first season. Presumably you'd have sold the 22 year old Drogba off as not good enough, seeing as his goal rate at that age was not even as good as Oba's when he was 18-19.

 

Players like Martins' are the best we can go for - fringe players (at big clubs) who are on the up and have the potential to go all the way - for what it's worth, I think Martins will be absolute dynamite in a few years time.

 

In a nutshell Wullie.

 

My jury is still out....But people who score and keep scoring are allowed to be shit at other aspects of their game.

[KaKa]

I guess what we all have to ask ourselves is this ...

 

Does a young striker who scores 17 goals in his first season at Newcastle, when he had every excuse going to fail, deserve a couple more seasons to grow and get better?

 

Is it in our interest to give him at least two mroe seasons to see what he can become?

[Yorkie]

I'm a big fan of Martins, i think he's got masses of potential. Playing-wise, putting himself about as a good player, he hasn't looked particularly great, but he's got a goalscoring ability and you have got to remember that things have been against him, virtually from day one.

 

/ He took the number 9 shirt; yes, his decision, but the odds were always going to be stacked against him. He was young, foreign and i bet a significant percentage of St James' Park new very little about him - a lot won't have heard of him. Yet with 17 goals in his first season, i think he's made a creditable attempt at becoming a goalscorer, so far anyway.

 

/ He's a young lad in a new league. The Italian division isn't alike to the Premiership, and Martins is a young lad in a brand new world. Newcastle is nowt like Milan - believe me, i've been to both.

 

/ The manager was shite. The team was shite. He'd never been a regular before in his career yet was depended on as the main man.

 

I'd agree, he hasn't looked worth £10million as yet, but there's still so much left in the tank! Yes he's raw, and yes he's not everyone's cup of tea, but which ever way you look at it, he is someone worth pledging your hopes on for the next couple of years and beyond - because he does have a vast amount of potential. And we haven't had any genuine flourish of hope for a striker since Bellamy.

 

Plus, a new era under a new manager - a good mananger, things are looking up from the playing staff side of things. He will get better, like i say, his potential can and should be fulfilled.

 

As Kaka listed earlier, he's got the basic attributes to be a good striker - which is why he's nailed 17 goals this season. He can shoot, he can head, he's fit, he can run at the defense and his reading of the game isn't all that bad. His touch is poor but that will come; the one thing that needs excellent coaching, and what needs drilling into him if he is going to get better in the immediate future - is his movement. He's very, very static.

 

But - i've got hope in Martins. I haven't been excited to the state of ejaculation this season, like our friend Kaka, but i'm willing to pile a significant amount of hope onto him to be a bloody good player for us.

 

Aye, we're a season in, but give him time!

[Optimistic Nut]

Back to a post I posted earlier Kaka, in what ways has Martins improved since 2002-3 when he broke into the Inter side, to now? Age is no excuse really. That's 4 years playing alongside, training alongside, and being coached by some of the best strikers in the world over the last decade or so. People were having a go at Ameobi (and rightly so) at 22-23 for his performances. He'd been involved in the set-up for 4 years by then, working alongside Shearer. While he didn't score 17, he was also 3rd choice striker, and I'd imagine that in the two seasons he scored 9 goals, his goals per minute ratio would have been similar.

[Yorkie]

How could he properly improve when he wasn't playing?

 

It's not all done on the training ground.

 

For one thing - he's scored a damn sight more goals than what he did at Inter!

[Optimistic Nut]

He's also played a damn sight more minutes, so that's natural.

 

 

[Guest Gemmill]

I repeat btw, I don't want to hear about potential, because there is no way he's 22.  Look at his face man, the lad is late 20s easy.

[Yorkie]

He's also played a damn sight more minutes, so that's natural.

 

Which is admirable aswell. Never been a regular in the Inter side yet comes here and is expected to be the main man. And he's done that.

[Yorkie]

I repeat btw, I don't want to hear about potential, because there is no way he's 22.  Look at his face man, the lad is late 20s easy.

 

Nonsencial argument, but whatever.

 

He always looks considerably younger during his interviews. Doesn't sounds like a guy in his late twenties either. His voice is far too high pitch.

[Isegrim]

He's also played a damn sight more minutes, so that's natural.

 

Which is admirable aswell. Never been a regular in the Inter side yet comes here and is expected to be the main man. And he's done that.

 

What is admirable? We bought an ageless fringe player from Inter for a very huge fee who is - despite some obvious shortcomings in his game - seen as the footballing reincarnation of Mozart by some. I'd admire him if he was exceeding expectations and/or his price tag.

[Wullie]

Back to a post I posted earlier Kaka, in what ways has Martins improved since 2002-3 when he broke into the Inter side, to now? Age is no excuse really. That's 4 years playing alongside, training alongside, and being coached by some of the best strikers in the world over the last decade or so. People were having a go at Ameobi (and rightly so) at 22-23 for his performances. He'd been involved in the set-up for 4 years by then, working alongside Shearer. While he didn't score 17, he was also 3rd choice striker, and I'd imagine that in the two seasons he scored 9 goals, his goals per minute ratio would have been similar.

 

Dunno about Kaka, but the only time I've seen Inter Milan play 90 minutes since watching Football Italia as a nipper was when they played us twice, so I've no idea.

 

The other players don't coach anyway, I'm sure you know that Nut, and even if they did - good players do not necessarily make good coaches.

[Optimistic Nut]

Admirable would have been scoring the absolute sitters he's missed this season. Not just missed chances I'm talking about, actually chances where it was easier to score than miss, and there were at least 7-8 of those this season. While scoring 17 was good, he really should have had 25 at least.

[Guest Gemmill]

I repeat btw, I don't want to hear about potential, because there is no way he's 22.  Look at his face man, the lad is late 20s easy.

 

Nonsencial argument, but whatever.

 

He always looks considerably younger during his interviews. Doesn't sounds like a guy in his late twenties either. His voice is far too high pitch.

 

  I don't know how old you are mate, but your voice breaks in your teens.  If you're 18 now and you've got a squeaky voice, you're stuck with it for life.  Are you anticipating him doing interviews sounding like Barry White in a few years time?

[STM]

Martins talent needs some severe nurturing before it is too late. The fact that he can score 17 goals in his maiden season in english football despite not convincing everyone that he is using his full ability speaks volumes. Also taking into account that he has yet to have played up front with a good or consistent partner.

 

I understand the critisism that the lad gets because he can be frustrating but we need to be positive about his future. Thank fuck we have a competent manager now.

 

 

[KaKa]

The sad thing is that Martins was our only consistent source of gaols all season. We wentinto every game knowing that if Martins didn't score we pretty much weren't going to score any goals.

 

So everyong watches his every move so closely and of course it is then easy to pick apart his game. You only have to see how pathetic and uninvolved Owen was in his two games back to understand and appreciate what a good achievement 17 goals in such a mess of a team was.

 

I am happy we now have a good manager, one who has an experience of working with African players and getting the best out of them. Hope Martins stays.

 

It's such a shame we will lose him durign the African Nations Cup though as this really won't be ideal.

[GM]

I repeat btw, I don't want to hear about potential, because there is no way he's 22.  Look at his face man, the lad is late 20s easy.

 

Nonsencial argument, but whatever.

 

He always looks considerably younger during his interviews. Doesn't sounds like a guy in his late twenties either. His voice is far too high pitch.

 

  I don't know how old you are mate, but your voice breaks in your teens.  If you're 18 now and you've got a squeaky voice, you're stuck with it for life.  Are you anticipating him doing interviews sounding like Barry White in a few years time?

 

Got to love Yorkie for shouting down Gemmill for nonsensical arguments when he then proceeds to counter with this sort of reasoning.

 

Keep up the good work, kidda!

[Karjala]

"The Newcastle Evening Chronicle suggests that Manchester United's interest in Owen has cooled because of the combination of his £5million-a-year wages and his questionable fitness, while Liverpool manager Rafa Benitez has no interest in taking him back to Anfield."

 

[Skirge]

The clause is £11 mill not 9 and it only came into effect when we did not qualify for Europe but it can only be a club with Champions League football that can take him. Man Ure will watch him in the three Enbgland games before deciding to go for Owen or not!! (my little ITK)

[buzza]

I would quite happily sell owen for 11 million and go for Anelka with the money, he would be a better pairing up front with Oba. Or vice versa, oba for 12 million and anelka and owen up front.

Just call me Allardice!!