Day 1 and Sam Allardyce already looks defeated in losing clubs Star player

[Raconteur]

"Big Club" in recent history for me is a club thats experienced High finishes in the Premiership 2nd, 2nd (Keegan) 3rd, 4th, 5th (Robson) and played Champions League football and has had World Class players, Alan Shearer greatest premiership goal scorer of all time and one of England's greatest ever centre forwards and Michael Owen one of England's highest ever goal scorers.

 

No, big clubs are clubs that win things. And that's a fact that clubs like Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, Everton all have to come to grips with. Big clubs don't finish mid table which is what two of those four clubs have done this year, big clubs win trophies. End of.

 

Until that happens they're all clubs with expectations and setups which may be geared towards winning things, but until that happens, it means jack shit.

 

High finishes in recent years and decent players means absolutely nothing whatsoever compared to trophies in the cupboard.

 

SA has gone to a club where the expectations are far higher than they've ever been at Bolton, and that is what he is going to have to handle. In a way, if he were to get a whiff of Owen not wanting to be there, the absolute best thing he could do for you would be to get shot as soon as he can. You'll get players who really want to be there, and send a message out that he's not to be fucked around with. Result.

 

 

 

 

 

Well said sir!

[Guest Knightrider]

I'm probably seeing things here but do I detect a bit of positivity/lack of negativity in one of NM's posts?

[brummie]

Boro are bigger than all of those clubs then.

 

Boro aren't a club. They're a retirement home for the overpaid. A career hospice, if you will.

[Dave]

Boro are bigger than all of those clubs then.

 

Boro aren't a club. They're a retirement home for the overpaid. A career hospice, if you will.

 

But they won a trophy. That's what big clubs do.

 

Personally I think the 'big club' debate is nonsense as it's obviously all subjective, but surely if you were to rank clubs logically you'd include all factors.

[Guest gggg]

Big clubs don't finish 13th twice in a row. Simple as that.

 

Big clubs start the season as title challengers.

 

 

Edit: why did i think we finished 13th last season? Anyway....

[Guest Knightrider]

Newcastle are a big club, even an idiot would concede so (well, maybe not) but we are not a big successful club like the real big clubs and therefore when you strip away the claptrap are no more bigger than a Villa or an Everton who BTW have won more than we have, Villa double surprisingly. All bollocks anyway these big club debates, they are to the meaning of football what finishing second is to finishing first - nowhere.

[brummie]

Boro are bigger than all of those clubs then.

 

Boro aren't a club. They're a retirement home for the overpaid. A career hospice, if you will.

 

But they won a trophy. That's what big clubs do.

 

Personally I think the 'big club' debate is nonsense as it's obviously all subjective, but surely if you were to rank clubs logically you'd include all factors.

 

When i said "win things" I meant plural rather than "win something", ie on a regular basis. I always imagine the big four (at the moment) looking down their noses, thinking "oh, they're arguing about being 'big' again" then going back to polishing their trophies.

[brummie]

Newcastle are a big club, even an idiot would concede so (well, maybe not) but we are not a big successful club like the real big clubs and therefore when you strip away the claptrap are no more bigger than a Villa or an Everton who BTW have won more than we have, Villa double surprisingly. All bollocks anyway these big club debates, they are to the meaning of football what finishing second is to finishing first - nowhere.

 

Nail / head.

[SEMTEX]

Boro are bigger than all of those clubs then.

 

Boro aren't a club. They're a retirement home for the overpaid. A career hospice, if you will.

 

But they won a trophy. That's what big clubs do.

 

Personally I think the 'big club' debate is nonsense as it's obviously all subjective, but surely if you were to rank clubs logically you'd include all factors.

 

When i said "win things" I meant plural rather than "win something", ie on a regular basis. I always imagine the big four (at the moment) looking down their noses, thinking "oh, they're arguing about being 'big' again" then going back to polishing their trophies.

 

there are more big clubs than competitions to win tbh

[brummie]

Boro are bigger than all of those clubs then.

 

Boro aren't a club. They're a retirement home for the overpaid. A career hospice, if you will.

 

But they won a trophy. That's what big clubs do.

 

Personally I think the 'big club' debate is nonsense as it's obviously all subjective, but surely if you were to rank clubs logically you'd include all factors.

 

When i said "win things" I meant plural rather than "win something", ie on a regular basis. I always imagine the big four (at the moment) looking down their noses, thinking "oh, they're arguing about being 'big' again" then going back to polishing their trophies.

 

there are more big clubs than competitions to win tbh

 

There are indeed, but the same four clubs every year for how long now?

[Guest BigAl2]

"Big Club" in recent history for me is a club thats experienced High finishes in the Premiership 2nd, 2nd (Keegan) 3rd, 4th, 5th (Robson) and played Champions League football and has had World Class players, Alan Shearer greatest premiership goal scorer of all time and one of England's greatest ever centre forwards and Michael Owen one of England's highest ever goal scorers.

 

No, big clubs are clubs that win things. And that's a fact that clubs like Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, Everton all have to come to grips with. Big clubs don't finish mid table which is what two of those four clubs have done this year, big clubs win trophies. End of.

 

Until that happens they're all clubs with expectations and setups which may be geared towards winning things, but until that happens, it means jack s***.

 

High finishes in recent years and decent players means absolutely nothing whatsoever compared to trophies in the cupboard.

 

SA has gone to a club where the expectations are far higher than they've ever been at Bolton, and that is what he is going to have to handle. In a way, if he were to get a whiff of Owen not wanting to be there, the absolute best thing he could do for you would be to get shot as soon as he can. You'll get players who really want to be there, and send a message out that he's not to be f***** around with. Result.

 

 

 

 

Top Class!!!

 

At last some sense on the big club issue and its taken an outsider to state it (No offense Brummie)

 

Owen is not the sort of player to build your team around, yes he scores goals but he doesn't dictate a style of play, I would rather have a Berbatov style forward if we are going to BUILD a team around an individual.

 

[NE5]

good on him, he needs to know to plan for next season so the sooner the owen situation is sorted the better, and that's true even if Owen ends up leaving.

 

correct. I'd go further. As he only has 2 years of his contract and will be a free agent in 18 months time, I'd ask him to extend for another 12 months, and if he won't do that, look for a buyer before we lose him for nothing.

 

Keeping your best players is paramount to being successful, but things have changed since the Bosman rule, we have to accept that having been here for 2 years and not exactly becoming a NUFC player through being injured all the time, he may want to move on or go home to Liverpool if the chance arises.

 

Its not much to ask in return for what we have showed and paid him, if he can't return that loyalty then we are better off bring in players who want to play for the club.

 

 

[Guest alex]

good on him, he needs to know to plan for next season so the sooner the owen situation is sorted the better, and that's true even if Owen ends up leaving.

 

correct. I'd go further. As he only has 2 years of his contract and will be a free agent in 18 months time, I'd ask him to extend for another 12 months, and if he won't do that, look for a buyer before we lose him for nothing.

 

Keeping your best players is paramount to being successful, but things have changed since the Bosman rule, we have to accept that having been here for 2 years and not exactly becoming a NUFC player through being injured all the time, he may want to move on or go home to Liverpool if the chance arises.

 

Its not much to ask in return for what we have showed and paid him, if he can't return that loyalty then we are better off bring in players who want to play for the club.

 

 

Totally agree with that tbh.

[Guest sittingontheball]

Like NE5 says, we have to get him to extend or sell. We can't let him depreciate further, possibly while not even playing and contributing to the team like this season.

 

If there is that clause and its only 9million as heavily speculated, it will naturally bring attention to Owen from the top 4.  Allardyce didn't stipulate the terms of Owen's contract, so he can't be blamed for that.

[Guest SLK]

Bollocks to begging him to stay, anyone who has played as little as he has over the past 2 years and is paid over £100k a week should f*** right off if they need begging to stay!

 

There is a big difference between begging and showing your desire in your press conference to keep your World Class player.

 

His desire to defend his "Ugly football" tag was obvious.

 

I hope thats not a on going theme.

And do you think Owen was waiting for Sam's PUBLIC DISPLAY OF DESIRE for him to decide whether to stay or not

 

Are you for real ? I know Owen is not that kind of person that likes to be begged but he should be the one showing gratitude and loyalty to Newcastle United and the fans after all he has been getting more than 5 million pounds every year for two f****** seasons without any return back for the club...The fans are paying his wages by the way...

[Howaythelads]

 

Its only day one and already Sam Allardyce looks defeated in losing our clubs Star player in Michael Owen.

 

Comments such as "i will be asking him does he want to stay or go?" are simply not good enough this is Big Sam chance at a Big Club with Big players he has to prove he can keep the likes of Michael Owen and build a team around him much like previous managers could with previous Top players in Alan Shearer by building teams around him.

 

When Sir Bobby Robson was appointed he knew if we were to hit High league places of 3rd, 4th, 5th that building a team around its best player in Alan Shearer was vital and its the same with Sam Allardyce and Michael Owen.

 

Sam Allardyce main priority when talking in his press conference yesterday SHOULD of been his desire to build a team around Michael Owen and his desire to KEEP him not spending all his passion in defending his long ball history at Bolton.

 

The fears of Sam Allardyce lack of big club experience could well already be showing.

 

Don't fret. At least this wasn't about your hero.

[Howaythelads]

good on him, he needs to know to plan for next season so the sooner the owen situation is sorted the better, and that's true even if Owen ends up leaving.

 

correct. I'd go further. As he only has 2 years of his contract and will be a free agent in 18 months time, I'd ask him to extend for another 12 months, and if he won't do that, look for a buyer before we lose him for nothing.

 

Keeping your best players is paramount to being successful, but things have changed since the Bosman rule, we have to accept that having been here for 2 years and not exactly becoming a NUFC player through being injured all the time, he may want to move on or go home to Liverpool if the chance arises.

 

Its not much to ask in return for what we have showed and paid him, if he can't return that loyalty then we are better off bring in players who want to play for the club.

 

 

 

Yup

[Guest elbee909]

good on him, he needs to know to plan for next season so the sooner the owen situation is sorted the better, and that's true even if Owen ends up leaving.

 

correct. I'd go further. As he only has 2 years of his contract and will be a free agent in 18 months time, I'd ask him to extend for another 12 months, and if he won't do that, look for a buyer before we lose him for nothing.

 

Keeping your best players is paramount to being successful, but things have changed since the Bosman rule, we have to accept that having been here for 2 years and not exactly becoming a NUFC player through being injured all the time, he may want to move on or go home to Liverpool if the chance arises.

 

Its not much to ask in return for what we have showed and paid him, if he can't return that loyalty then we are better off bring in players who want to play for the club.

 

 

 

Yup

 

Thirded, spot on.

[Guest Hollow]

Its only day one and already Sam Allardyce looks defeated in losing our clubs Star player in Michael Owen.

 

Comments such as "i will be asking him does he want to stay or go?" are simply not good enough this is Big Sam chance at a Big Club with Big players he has to prove he can keep the likes of Michael Owen and build a team around him much like previous managers could with previous Top players in Alan Shearer by building teams around him.

 

When Sir Bobby Robson was appointed he knew if we were to hit High league places of 3rd, 4th, 5th that building a team around its best player in Alan Shearer was vital and its the same with Sam Allardyce and Michael Owen.

 

Sam Allardyce main priority when talking in his press conference yesterday SHOULD of been his desire to build a team around Michael Owen and his desire to KEEP him not spending all his passion in defending his long ball history at Bolton.

 

The fears of Sam Allardyce lack of big club experience could well already be showing.

 

Are you mad? Owen can't hold a candle to Shearer, and never will be able to. Few people play for any club with the passion that AS played for the Toon. To cheapen that and compare Owen and AS, is disgusting.

[toptoon]

 

Its only day one and already Sam Allardyce looks defeated in losing our clubs Star player in Michael Owen.

 

Comments such as "i will be asking him does he want to stay or go?" are simply not good enough this is Big Sam chance at a Big Club with Big players he has to prove he can keep the likes of Michael Owen and build a team around him much like previous managers could with previous Top players in Alan Shearer by building teams around him.

 

When Sir Bobby Robson was appointed he knew if we were to hit High league places of 3rd, 4th, 5th that building a team around its best player in Alan Shearer was vital and its the same with Sam Allardyce and Michael Owen.

 

Sam Allardyce main priority when talking in his press conference yesterday SHOULD of been his desire to build a team around Michael Owen and his desire to KEEP him not spending all his passion in defending his long ball history at Bolton.

 

The fears of Sam Allardyce lack of big club experience could well already be showing.

 

Ridiculous sniping and negative Big Sam spin.

 

He's only been with us a day and your already trying to pin the loss of Owen on him which may or may not happen.

 

As has already been said if Owen wants out then we should fuck him off not beg him!

 

Get someone in who wants to play for us and is not a crock.

 

I'd personally preffer him to want to stay and hopes he scores 20+ goals for us next season and becomes a big hero. After big Al said he's staying then he's staying imo although his silence makes me wonder.

 

If Owen were to leave, he'd be a very disloyal, ungrateful sewer rat imo and he can expect a hot reception if he were to ever return to the Toon, as i'd certainly at least Boo the little bastard!.

[Guest Echo]

"as i'd certainly at least Boo the little bastard!"

 

Tek ya time now he hasn't done owt yet

[toptoon]

"as i'd certainly at least Boo the little b******!"

 

Tek ya time now he hasn't done owt yet

 

Sorry thats if he left before next season

[sicsfingeredmong]

Allardyce has a tough ask of trying to convince him to stay, given that Owen's minders most likely leaked the 9m Europan non-qualification clause to the press..... why would a club leak a story with an underlying consequence of a 6m loss. I think his agent/minders were lying when they stated they weren't the 'leak'.

 

This is the same Michael Owen who was on the phone to his agent trying to salvage a last minute move to Liverpool on the way Shepherd's residence before siogning.

[Optimistic Nut]

Boro are bigger than all of those clubs then.

 

Boro aren't a club. They're a retirement home for the overpaid. A career hospice, if you will.

 

But they won a trophy. That's what big clubs do.

 

Personally I think the 'big club' debate is nonsense as it's obviously all subjective, but surely if you were to rank clubs logically you'd include all factors.

 

When i said "win things" I meant plural rather than "win something", ie on a regular basis. I always imagine the big four (at the moment) looking down their noses, thinking "oh, they're arguing about being 'big' again" then going back to polishing their trophies.

 

there are more big clubs than competitions to win tbh

 

There are indeed, but the same four clubs every year for how long now?

 

The thing is, we've been unlucky with timing. For example, our side of 1995-7 would have won the title in many other seasons throughout history...we were just unlucky to come across one of the best sides in English history. Same goes with the FA Cup, the last 3 finals we've made, we've played Liverpool who were about to enter their famous stage, Arsenal at their best, and a Man U side on their way to completing a treble. When you see some of the other clubs who've been to cup finals in that time (Southampton, Boro, Watford, Brighton, Millwall, etc), we've been unlucky. For 4 titles & 6 FA Cups, it could have very easily read 6 titles & 9 FA Cups.

[TRon]

Not sure Owen was too smart in leaking the £9m clause. I doubt any of the top 4 will pay that for such a fragile player any more. If they did, I suspect Sam would fancy making use of that sort of money to buy a replacement. Top marksman without a doubt, but injury prone and un-committed that he is,  hardly makes him indispensable.