Juve In For Martins.

[NUFC06]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

SBR during his time when he signed Craig Bellamy who at that time was 22.

SBR improved Bellamy's movement and he used it to the most useful way it can be used.

Bellamy's movement was based on his partnership with Alan Shearer who was master in the air and this use of Bellamy's qualities was improvement as well as on his movement but also as an improvement on the players career itself.Bellamy's reasonable use of his pace and therefore his movement made him better player.

If Allardyce can use Martins's pace that way it will be improvement of his movement doesnt it?

You see, I think Bellamy's movement was spot on from the off, or rather from as soon as he started playing with Shearer and it stayed that way, so I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

The whole point i was trying to make is that Allardyce will use Martins's pace far more reasonable then the idiot Roeder.

You make your conclusions about Martins's poor movemenet from the things i mentioned before(poor manager,poor teammates,poor team to play in).

Dont you agree with me that under Allardyce Martins's movemenet might get better,more reasonable(not runing like a clueless chicken),runing into empty spaces,runing for balls headed from some tall striker we might sign.

Also don you agree that if we sign some decent player who can play well in the air and under the right management from Allardyce Martins's pace and movement can be useful as Bellamy's?

[Skirge]

What boils my piss with our local press is that the pick and choose who to slate, Zoggy has just as much of a bad weekend as Martins yet its Oba thats gets slated in the press not Zoggy.

Martisn has done more for us this season than Zoggy but Anal lashes out only at Oba.

I can't belive people would be happy to see us take £15mill for Martins and then blow that on Bent, itsa just fkn crazy..

 

A better defence make midfields job easier, a midfield under less defensive pressure can create more for the strikers, way to many times this season our front two sufferd because of pure s**** football being played behind them, its a knock on effect right throught he team, once Sam sorts out the back then moves onto midfield it will leave him with the chance of gettign the best out of his strikers.

[Guest NUFCnutter]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

SBR during his time when he signed Craig Bellamy who at that time was 22.

SBR improved Bellamy's movement and he used it to the most useful way it can be used.

Bellamy's movement was based on his partnership with Alan Shearer who was master in the air and this use of Bellamy's qualities was improvement as well as on his movement but also as an improvement on the players career itself.Bellamy's reasonable use of his pace and therefore his movement made him better player.

If Allardyce can use Martins's pace that way it will be improvement of his movement doesnt it?

You see, I think Bellamy's movement was spot on from the off, or rather from as soon as he started playing with Shearer and it stayed that way, so I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

 

Dont you agree with me that under Allardyce Martins's movemenet might get better,more reasonable(not runing like a clueless chicken),runing into empty spaces,runing for balls headed from some tall striker we might sign.

 

 

Which tall striker might that be then?

[Guest Gemmill]

What boils my piss with our local press is that the pick and choose who to slate, Zoggy has just as much of a bad weekend as Martins yet its Oba thats gets slated in the press not Zoggy.

Martisn has done more for us this season than Zoggy but Anal lashes out only at Oba.

I can't belive people would be happy to see us take £15mill for Martins and then blow that on Bent, itsa just fkn crazy..

 

You wanted us to spend £15m on Andy Johnson not too long ago.   He's better than Martins an'all btw.

[johnnypd]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

el hadj diouf, 23 when he joined bolton, under sam allardyce. he is our new manager iirc.

 

as for martins playing in the most tactically astute league, is this spin intended to make him look worse than he is? serie a is also the most static of all the strong leagues, the one in which pace and making runs is least valued and least important. it's obvious that martins' play when he arrived was more suited to serie a, ie holding a position and waiting for a change in opposition formation, rather than the premiership ie making a run in advance of a pass being made. even then there has been a massive improvement in his anticipation and movement under Roeder (though he regressed a bit end of season), so i could see an even better improvement under Allardyce.

 

it is laughable to think he is the finished product or that his all round game can not improve. in fact he has shown in sporadic glimpses that he is capable of everything that is being asked of him - usually when something goes right for him (like a goal) his head is up and all a sudden he looks unstoppable, intelligent movement, good touch, link up play, non stop running and so on. the question is not can he do these things as he obviously can, but whether he can produce this on a consistent basis. that is sam's challenge, if he can get it right he'll have a fantastic player on his hands week in week out, rather than just for 20 minutes here and there.

[Guest alex]

Edit: for NUFC06

By making stuff up about Robson and Bellamy? I'm convinced

I totally agree that Martins is the sort of player that will benefit from a suitable strike partner. And Allardyce may be able to work on his movement. My problem with his movement though is that it doesn't even seem good in an elementary sense with him not moving to make space for his team mates or moving into obvious free spaces when the team is attacking and so on. It's asking Allardyce to perform miracles to change his game in that sense imo.

[KaKa]

Would be a shame if he went back to italy. Not sure if he will ever become the player he can in that league.

 

If he leaves it would be interesting to see what he could become at another premiership club.

[Raconteur]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

el hadj diouf, 23 when he joined bolton, under sam allardyce. he is our new manager iirc.

 

 

Ah, but Diouf was African Player of the Year before he went to Liverpool...

 

[Skirge]

What boils my piss with our local press is that the pick nd choose who to slate, Zoggy has just as much of a bad weekend as Martins yet its Oba thats gets slated in the press not Zoggy.

Martisn has done more for us this season than Zoggy but Anal lashes out only at Oba.

I can't belive people would be happy to see us take £15mill for Martins and then blow that on Bent, itsa just fkn crazy..

 

You wanted us to spend £15m on Andy Johnson not too long ago.   He's better than Martins an'all btw.

AJ has turned out to be very injury prone and has went right off the boil but at the time when I wanted us to sign him he was playing very well.

You never know how players will be from one season to the next and any signing is a risk but 17 goals in their first season is a good enough reason to keep them but hey thats just my opinion.

 

Big Sam - "you don't sell your leading goal scorer"

[Nate]

I'm not a fan of Martins, but if the offer is only what we paid, i'd be inclined to give him another season in what promises to be a much more organised side. That said, if there was the option of Anelka IN and Martins OUT without any expenditure, i would take it in an instant, likewise any offers in excess of £14m. Our priority should be keeping Owen and replacing Martins with a more suitable partner for him, and Anelka certainly fits the bill.

[Guest alex]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

el hadj diouf, 23 when he joined bolton, under sam allardyce. he is our new manager iirc.

 

as for martins playing in the most tactically astute league, is this spin intended to make him look worse than he is? serie a is also the most static of all the strong leagues, the one in which pace and making runs is least valued and least important. it's obvious that martins' play when he arrived was more suited to serie a, ie holding a position and waiting for a change in opposition formation, rather than the premiership ie making a run in advance of a pass being made. even then there has been a massive improvement in his anticipation and movement under Roeder (though he regressed a bit end of season), so i could see an even better improvement under Allardyce.

 

it is laughable to think he is the finished product or that his all round game can not improve. in fact he has shown in sporadic glimpses that he is capable of everything that is being asked of him - usually when something goes right for him (like a goal) his head is up and all a sudden he looks unstoppable, intelligent movement, good touch, link up play, non stop running and so on. the question is not can he do these things as he obviously can, but whether he can produce this on a consistent basis. that is sam's challenge, if he can get it right he'll have a fantastic player on his hands week in week out, rather than just for 20 minutes here and there.

Actually significantly improved his movenment? I disagree. It's not even a major part of his game. He gets the ball and runs with it. He's a very direct player. No one is saying Martins is the finished product btw, just looking at two aspects of his game that simply won't be improved that much by the manager as they are dreadful given his age (he isn't a kid).

[Cajun]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

el hadj diouf, 23 when he joined bolton, under sam allardyce. he is our new manager iirc.

 

as for martins playing in the most tactically astute league, is this spin intended to make him look worse than he is? serie a is also the most static of all the strong leagues, the one in which pace and making runs is least valued and least important. it's obvious that martins' play when he arrived was more suited to serie a, ie holding a position and waiting for a change in opposition formation, rather than the premiership ie making a run in advance of a pass being made. even then there has been a massive improvement in his anticipation and movement under Roeder (though he regressed a bit end of season), so i could see an even better improvement under Allardyce.

 

it is laughable to think he is the finished product or that his all round game can not improve. in fact he has shown in sporadic glimpses that he is capable of everything that is being asked of him - usually when something goes right for him (like a goal) his head is up and all a sudden he looks unstoppable, intelligent movement, good touch, link up play, non stop running and so on. the question is not can he do these things as he obviously can, but whether he can produce this on a consistent basis. that is sam's challenge, if he can get it right he'll have a fantastic player on his hands week in week out, rather than just for 20 minutes here and there.

 

Spot on.

[Cajun]

Anelka is better than or equal to Martins in most aspects of his game.

 

Anelka is also a player who is liable to get the hump and ask to leave at any given point, if he gets the hump with us in a couple of seasons do you think there is any chance at all of us getting anything close to what we paid for him?

 

Honestly cannot believe the stick Martins is getting but then he is playing for Newcastle so it shouldn't be a shock!

 

 

What like hiding in his hotel room and saying he had a sore knee? 

 

I like him just Nicolas is better at everything.

 

Honestly not comparing Martins attitude problems to Anelka are you?

 

 

 

They are quite different and their psychology is also miles apart, but the differance is important.

 

Anelka is moody because he knows how good he is and he feels unfullfilled, he is tormented. This is someting a good manager can tap into as Sam has recently at Bolton. Martins is just scatty.....Looks like a bag of sweets will do the trick.

 

Aye because Anelka will never think he is too good for us. Keep the excuses coming but its clear to most he has attitude problems and if he is already angling for ANOTHER move this season I can't see why anybody wouldn't think he would be a huge risk for us, especially when he is at a time in his career when his value is going to start falling quite a bit every year!

[Guest Gemmill]

There's a reason Martins was used as an impact sub in Italy - pace.  They probably knew as well as some of us do that his touch and movement weren't good enough for him to be a first team regular.  What really bothers me about this whole discussion is that people just won't concede just how shockingly inadequate both of these areas of his game are.  They're beyond bad. 

[NUFC06]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

SBR during his time when he signed Craig Bellamy who at that time was 22.

SBR improved Bellamy's movement and he used it to the most useful way it can be used.

Bellamy's movement was based on his partnership with Alan Shearer who was master in the air and this use of Bellamy's qualities was improvement as well as on his movement but also as an improvement on the players career itself.Bellamy's reasonable use of his pace and therefore his movement made him better player.

If Allardyce can use Martins's pace that way it will be improvement of his movement doesnt it?

You see, I think Bellamy's movement was spot on from the off, or rather from as soon as he started playing with Shearer and it stayed that way, so I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

 

 

Dont you agree with me that under Allardyce Martins's movemenet might get better,more reasonable(not runing like a clueless chicken),runing into empty spaces,runing for balls headed from some tall striker we might sign.

 

 

Which tall striker might that be then?

 

it doesnt necessarily have to be tall.He just have to be good in the air and to hold the ball upfront

[Guest alex]

Canny difficult to judge movement from TV highlights tbf 

[Guest SwissMagpie]

Martins will stay IMO,as he is young and has great potantial.release your best striker this season just after one year is stupid move and i believe wont happened even if they offer on him 15 million.

 

what i was excited about is this part of the article:

Allardyce is determined to strengthen a deficient defence and a manager keen to lure Tal Ben Haim from Bolton is also understood to be plotting a move for Wigan's Leighton Baines.

 

 

The England Under-21 international is among the Premiership's most admired full-backs and, with Stephen Carr and Celestine Babayaro expected to join Olivier Bernard, Craig Moore, Titus Bramble and Oguchi Onyewu in leaving Tyneside, Baines has been earmarked to fill the club's problematic left-back berth.

 

[Optimistic Nut]

What boils my piss with our local press is that the pick and choose who to slate, Zoggy has just as much of a bad weekend as Martins yet its Oba thats gets slated in the press not Zoggy.

Martisn has done more for us this season than Zoggy but Anal lashes out only at Oba.

I can't belive people would be happy to see us take £15mill for Martins and then blow that on Bent, itsa just fkn crazy..

 

Are you serious? Have you seen some of the Zog bashing from Oliver this season? As for Bent, £15m for Martins, £12m for Bent is fkn immense business.

[Guest alex]

What boils my piss with our local press is that the pick and choose who to slate, Zoggy has just as much of a bad weekend as Martins yet its Oba thats gets slated in the press not Zoggy.

Martisn has done more for us this season than Zoggy but Anal lashes out only at Oba.

I can't belive people would be happy to see us take £15mill for Martins and then blow that on Bent, itsa just fkn crazy..

 

Are you serious? Have you seen some of the Zog bashing from Oliver this season? As for Bent, £15m for Martins, £12m for Bent is fkn immense business.

Spot on there like. N'Zogbia, rightly or wrongly has been hammered by Oliver. Far more so than Martins.

[KaKa]

Can you give me an example of a manager who has significantly improved the movement of a player of Martins' age NUFC06?

 

el hadj diouf, 23 when he joined bolton, under sam allardyce. he is our new manager iirc.

 

as for martins playing in the most tactically astute league, is this spin intended to make him look worse than he is? serie a is also the most static of all the strong leagues, the one in which pace and making runs is least valued and least important. it's obvious that martins' play when he arrived was more suited to serie a, ie holding a position and waiting for a change in opposition formation, rather than the premiership ie making a run in advance of a pass being made. even then there has been a massive improvement in his anticipation and movement under Roeder (though he regressed a bit end of season), so i could see an even better improvement under Allardyce.

 

it is laughable to think he is the finished product or that his all round game can not improve. in fact he has shown in sporadic glimpses that he is capable of everything that is being asked of him - usually when something goes right for him (like a goal) his head is up and all a sudden he looks unstoppable, intelligent movement, good touch, link up play, non stop running and so on. the question is not can he do these things as he obviously can, but whether he can produce this on a consistent basis. that is sam's challenge, if he can get it right he'll have a fantastic player on his hands week in week out, rather than just for 20 minutes here and there.

 

Great post.

 

Two very good points made in this post. Was Martins even taught how to make runs behind defenders in Italy where such space doesn't even exist 95% of the time? How many strikers in Italy play this way?

 

Also, it was also very clear to me that when things start going for him he became an infinitely better player, which tells me he still needs to settle into the league and as he becomes more confident the consistency will come.

 

 

[Guest Gemmill]

Fucking hell man, because the lad plays well in 20 minute bursts after he's scored a goal, we should be knocking back £15m bids for him, and ignoring the rest of the time when he's, if you'll pardon my French, pretty fucking average.

[Syrette]

Love how quick some of our fans like to write our players off.

 

Pathetic, if you ask me.

[Guest alex]

Love how quick some of our fans like to write our players off.

 

Pathetic, if you ask me.

All people have done is pointed out how poor his touch and movement are tbh. Ridiculous how people don't see this if you ask me.

[Optimistic Nut]

Love how quick some of our fans like to write our players off.

 

Pathetic, if you ask me.

 

What's wrong with taking £15m for Martins? Consider him as an excellent loan deal while Owen was out with us making a tidy £5m profit, then use that £5m to go towards Shearer's replacement.

[Cajun]

Love how quick some of our fans like to write our players off.

 

Pathetic, if you ask me.

 

Yep.

 

He has shown poor touch and movement but he has on occasion shown good touch and movement. He can be pretty average in game she doesn't score in but then so is the saviour that is known as Michael of Owen.

 

The lad was 21 years old when we signed him, people expect the finished article at £10m.

 

PD hit it on the nail, he has come from a league that play football in a completely different style yet people are surprised Martins hasn't instantly adapted his game to this league. He has shown poor touch and has had numerous poor games, so has pretty much every player in the team. Was he supposed to come here and do it all himself? His main strike partner has been Sibierski or Dyer! We have had nothing down the left pretty much all season and the creativity from the centre of midfield has been amazing hasn't it?