José Enrique

[Guest]

On the continent we're still viewed on a par with  the likes of Everton. If anything in France our reputation has increased since Ben Arfa came and their press regular link it's league's best players with us.

[alpal78]

I don't think relegation affected our status this season. I think we're where we are when Ashley took over.

 

We were ahead before we sacked Hughton, we've been behind since we sold Carroll.

 

What a convenient and self serving way of measuring our position. Let me try, we were behind before we sacked Hughton and we are now ahead after we appointed Pardew, bought HBA and gave Tiote a new contract. This is fun! 

[80]

On the continent we're still viewed on a par with  the likes of Everton. If anything in France our reputation has increased since Ben Arfa came and their press regular link it's league's best players with us.

 

We're going to have to clear up which status we're talking about... I was running with 'popular Anglicized perception', myself. Admittedly some people/places won't even now know who Carroll is, but then they didn't even know we used to sell on people like Waddle and Gascoigne, so we hadn't risen much over the prior couple of decades in their eyes. Still think there are more tremors following it which will see them learn, as I of course expect more Carroll-style departures from the club. It's a hard stigma to break.

[80]

I don't think relegation affected our status this season. I think we're where we are when Ashley took over.

 

We were ahead before we sacked Hughton, we've been behind since we sold Carroll.

 

What a convenient and self serving way of measuring our position. Let me try, we were behind before we sacked Hughton and we are now ahead after we appointed Pardew, bought HBA and gave Tiote a new contract. This is fun!

 

I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were consolidating our reputation as a stable, sensible club where players can concentrate on improving their games when we swapped Hughton for Pardew, and I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were heading upward to our traditional position in natural order of things as a leading club when we sealed the second Tiote contract in 6 months, but ok.

[Guest]

Even in this country then. I bet if you asked fans of any other club if we're as big a laughing stock and mess as 2 or even 4 years ago, they'd say no.

[80]

Even in this country then. I bet if you asked fans of any other club if we're as big a laughing stock and mess as 2 or even 4 years ago, they'd say no.

 

Laughing stock I'll give you. But they also see us as less important (perhaps there's some relation in there).

[The Prophet]

Obviously reputation and status are impossible to gauge, but surely it was as low as it has ever been in our recent history following the 08-09 season.

[80]

Obviously reputation and status are impossible to gauge, but surely it was as low as it has ever been in our recent history following the 08-09 season.

 

Certainly could have been, but amazingly we just about got away with it. Mike Ashley covering our debts so we only sold players most of us were already wanting chucked played it's part (no embarrassing, symbolic departures like Alan Smith (of Leeds to Man Utd I mean...)), as did the third highest attendance in the country, Hughton managing a press black out after Carroll broke Taylor's jaw etc. Partly good luck, partly good sense. Altogether though, I'd definitely say we were given more popular credit by the 10th game of this season than we were in the 30th of 08/09, though, which was my point.*

 

My second point, though, is that nevertheless the Carroll sale struck a chord with people, not just our supporters, but our players, other clubs and the like, that hadn't been struck for 20 odd years.

 

*Edit: Actually, no it wasn't, it was about when Ashley took over. I stand by my essential argument, though. Somehow or other, during our year in Division 2 we managed to cleanse ourselves of our latter Shepherd/Hall year sins like dragging a tearful Michael Owen out in front of a mentally handicapped crowd. We came back with a refreshed reputation, and having still managed to retain a lot of our good bits. Then I think we spoilt it again by returning to old and even older habits.

[Guest]

Well we're one win away from our second best season since Sir Bobby so I'd say we're on the up for the first time in a good while. Even if we don't win we're back on a par with our average league finish the last 7 years anyway. We're no longer a club where people on the way down from the 'big clubs' see us as a big payday and easy ride. The people who've came recently genuinely seem thrilled to join us and represent the club, and I think we'll see another 3 or 4 like that again this summer, with or without  Enrique.

[alpal78]

I don't think relegation affected our status this season. I think we're where we are when Ashley took over.

 

We were ahead before we sacked Hughton, we've been behind since we sold Carroll.

 

What a convenient and self serving way of measuring our position. Let me try, we were behind before we sacked Hughton and we are now ahead after we appointed Pardew, bought HBA and gave Tiote a new contract. This is fun!

 

I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were consolidating our reputation as a stable, sensible club where players can concentrate on improving their games when we swapped Hughton for Pardew, and I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were heading upward to our traditional position in natural order of things as a leading club when we sealed the second Tiote contract in 6 months, but ok.

 

That's the point, my measurement is as subjective as yours, they are both designed to fit our predetermined conclusion/position.

[Mick]

Even in this country then. I bet if you asked fans of any other club if we're as big a laughing stock and mess as 2 or even 4 years ago, they'd say no.

 

We were a laughinig stock 6 months ago in this country and it seems we're in that position every time the club make a major decision.

[Guest]

I was Googling last night to see if Carroll ever partnered Rossi in our reserves together (don't ask), and it brought up a few messageboards, one I remember clearly was a Celtic one, saying we were mad for rejecting £23m from Liverpool for Carroll. That was obviously in the morning. I don't think anyone laughed at us, but if you look around many questioned Liverpool. As for the managerial appointment fair enough but he's done well so moot point.

[Guest Heneage]

We accepted a £35m bid for a player who had shown half a seasons worth of good performances. We stand to get half of what Man Utd got for Ronaldo a player that scored more goals than some teams score in a season.

[Jack Flash]

90+% of clubs wouldn't have turned down that much for any of their players so I doubt that's a reason why we're "laughed at".

 

It's mostly just a force of habit these days.

[80]

I don't think relegation affected our status this season. I think we're where we are when Ashley took over.

 

We were ahead before we sacked Hughton, we've been behind since we sold Carroll.

 

What a convenient and self serving way of measuring our position. Let me try, we were behind before we sacked Hughton and we are now ahead after we appointed Pardew, bought HBA and gave Tiote a new contract. This is fun!

 

I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were consolidating our reputation as a stable, sensible club where players can concentrate on improving their games when we swapped Hughton for Pardew, and I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were heading upward to our traditional position in natural order of things as a leading club when we sealed the second Tiote contract in 6 months, but ok.

 

That's the point, my measurement is as subjective as yours, they are both designed to fit our predetermined conclusion/position.

 

Social status is a subjective thing, that's obvious, but measurement of the actual attitudes towards something can be pretty straightforward. It's not just a case of making random statements you can't back up and assuming you won't get pulled up on them.

 

Not sure what my predetermined conclusion is supposed to be - if church bells had rung declaring how savvy we were for hiring Pardew, I would have just thought people are stupid, and said as much. I wouldn't have pretended they actually agreed with me, or changed my opinion to fit in with them, which logically you seem to be implying.

[Mick]

I was Googling last night to see if Carroll ever partnered Rossi in our reserves together (don't ask), and it brought up a few messageboards, one I remember clearly was a Celtic one, saying we were mad for rejecting £23m from Liverpool for Carroll. That was obviously in the morning. I don't think anyone laughed at us, but if you look around many questioned Liverpool. As for the managerial appointment fair enough but he's done well so moot point.

 

I meant the sacking of a manager who had brought us up from the Championship at the first attempt.

[Colocho]

I don't think relegation affected our status this season. I think we're where we are when Ashley took over.

 

We were ahead before we sacked Hughton, we've been behind since we sold Carroll.

 

What a convenient and self serving way of measuring our position. Let me try, we were behind before we sacked Hughton and we are now ahead after we appointed Pardew, bought HBA and gave Tiote a new contract. This is fun!

 

I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were consolidating our reputation as a stable, sensible club where players can concentrate on improving their games when we swapped Hughton for Pardew, and I don't remember the rest of the country saying we were heading upward to our traditional position in natural order of things as a leading club when we sealed the second Tiote contract in 6 months, but ok.

 

That's the point, my measurement is as subjective as yours, they are both designed to fit our predetermined conclusion/position.

 

Social status is a subjective thing, that's obvious, but measurement of the actual attitudes towards something can be pretty straightforward. It's not just a case of making random statements you can't back up and assuming you won't get pulled up on them.

 

Not sure what my predetermined conclusion is supposed to be - if church bells had rung declaring how savvy we were for hiring Pardew, I would have just thought people are stupid, and said as much. I wouldn't have pretended they actually agreed with me, or changed my opinion to fit in with them, which logically you seem to be implying.

 

[fredbob]

This is a very difficult situation for both the club and Enrique. Enrique can do no wrong for me in this situation (unless he signed for Sunderland), he stuck with us during our relegation and for me, for someone with such obvious talent its a pretty ringing endorsement for his character to stick around in such difficult times.

 

My reading of this situation is that Enriques willingness to leave revolves around Euro 2012. He has one year to get into that squad and no matter how well he's played for us he's not gonna get the profile that perhaps he deserves, its profile which should be completely irrelevant but this doesnt seem to be the case.

 

I dont think he can afford to stay even one more year, in hindsight it would of been a good move to get his contract sorted after promotion so we protected ourselves a little more, its become the case and we shall pay the price for it.

 

Bytheway, I think that theres a staggering amount of delusion and arrogance in suggesting we should be "competing" with Liverpool. Spurs, perhaps but whether you like it or not Liverpool are a huge club and are street above us and have been for some time now.

 

EDIT: Just as a side note to this international ambition 'theory', if he doesn't make it to next years squad, he'll be 28 by the time he plays his first international tournament.

 

 

[henke]

To be honest i think the "i want to play for spain" thing is a load of old bollocks. What he really means is "i want to play for a bigger club".

 

I'll admit he should have been called up already. But if he stayed with us and continued to turn in great performances, and improve further, i'm convinced he'd been capped sooner rather than later. He's too good not to be.

[fredbob]

To be honest i think the "i want to play for spain" thing is a load of old bollocks. What he really means is "i want to play for a bigger club".

 

I'll admit he should have been called up already. But if he stayed with us and continued to turn in great performances, and improve further, i'm convinced he'd been capped sooner rather than later. He's too good not to be.

 

So why do you think he hasnt been called up this season?!

[Guest BooBoo]

He can piss off.

[ElDiablo]

Kill him.

[henke]

To be honest i think the "i want to play for spain" thing is a load of old bollocks. What he really means is "i want to play for a bigger club".

 

I'll admit he should have been called up already. But if he stayed with us and continued to turn in great performances, and improve further, i'm convinced he'd been capped sooner rather than later. He's too good not to be.

 

So why do you think he hasnt been called up this season?!

 

It's a case of banging on the door a bit longer. How old is there cuurent LB? 32 or 33? They need to look for the next LB and Joses time will come whoever he's playing for, just my opinion of course. Like i said above i think he's using it as an excuse to go to a bigger club.

[fredbob]

To be honest i think the "i want to play for spain" thing is a load of old bollocks. What he really means is "i want to play for a bigger club".

 

I'll admit he should have been called up already. But if he stayed with us and continued to turn in great performances, and improve further, i'm convinced he'd been capped sooner rather than later. He's too good not to be.

 

So why do you think he hasnt been called up this season?!

 

It's a case of banging on the door a bit longer. How old is there cuurent LB? 32 or 33? They need to look for the next LB and Joses time will come whoever he's playing for, just my opinion of course. Like i said above i think he's using it as an excuse to go to a bigger club.

 

I guess we disagree on why he wants to leave but if i was in his position I'd do the same, if he doesnt get in the squad next year he'll be 28 by the time he plays in his first national tournament. Puts it into perspective for me at least.

[TRon]

I was Googling last night to see if Carroll ever partnered Rossi in our reserves together (don't ask), and it brought up a few messageboards, one I remember clearly was a Celtic one, saying we were mad for rejecting £23m from Liverpool for Carroll. That was obviously in the morning. I don't think anyone laughed at us, but if you look around many questioned Liverpool. As for the managerial appointment fair enough but he's done well so moot point.

 

I meant the sacking of a manager who had brought us up from the Championship at the first attempt.

 

Mick you were one of the biggest critics of Hughton when he got appointed and for a long time afterwards. I'm not even sure you thought he should be manager after promotion so I don't know how you can take that stance now.