Martin Samuel on Owen

[Northern Monkey]

Owen is a luxury in modern day football and it's a fact. Good player but it is shocking how little he gives to the team outside of being a goal poacher, albeit a darn good one.

 

More evidence that Allardyce is a strong believer in the 4-3-3. Is it likely he will sacrifice his beliefs all for the sake of one man? If so is this the right thing to do?

 

I think Owen will try to be adapted into the 4-3-3 as a wide striker and if it doesn't work he will probably be gone.

 

Very true, great players are able to give more to the team than just be a goal poacher. He dosent give anything else, dosent run at players anymore, isnt skillful on the ball, no left foot, not a presence up-front, a very limited footballer and it should have been worked on a long time ago to bring him to life more, he plays like a 33 year old, he's bloody 27.

 

funny, you must have seen him a lot more than me since his long injury lay-off.

 

I thought that when he DID play for us (13 appearances, 2 as sub), he scored 7 goals. Which is top striker-type ratio.

 

Now, unless you have secretly seen him play competitive matches WHEN FIT since then, i think you have some explaining to do.

[Guest robertbobo]

if, as that article suggests, ameobi will be ahead of owen in the striker order, then football can f*** off.

 

I agree 100% mate. If Viduka is ahead of Owen then football and Allardyce should f*** off. I honestly see us as being a slightly better side than Bolton, better players but no flair. THAT IS NOT THE NEWCASTLE UNITED WAY.

Probably only a matter of time till both Martins and Owen leave if we carry on where we left of on Saturday.

The last couple of seasons I've been downhearted because we've under acheived. Sunday morning I was still in a bad mood after 90 minutes of a high punt into the box. Newcastle United should be above this.

 

[Crumpy Gunt]

If Sam insists upon playing 4-3-3 then Owen will be as much use to NUFC as a Toon Ultras dick.

[Northern Monkey]

If Sam insists upon playing 4-3-3 then Owen will be as much use to NUFC as a Toon Ultras dick.

 

So are Martins and Viduka in a 433, in fairness.

[Crumpy Gunt]

If Sam insists upon playing 4-3-3 then Owen will be as much use to NUFC as a Toon Ultras dick.

 

So are Martins and Viduka in a 433, in fairness.

 

Viduka can play it being solitary up front but agreed regarding Martins.

 

I just can't see how it will ever work when our front 4 are all 4-4-2 players. Sam will make life tough for himself if he doesn't change things - he might need to think about Mort stating almost from the off that Sam wasn't their choice.

[Northern Monkey]

If Sam insists upon playing 4-3-3 then Owen will be as much use to NUFC as a Toon Ultras dick.

 

So are Martins and Viduka in a 433, in fairness.

 

Viduka can play it being solitary up front but agreed regarding Martins.

 

I just can't see how it will ever work when our front 4 are all 4-4-2 players. Sam will make life tough for himself if he doesn't change things - he might need to think about Mort stating almost from the off that Sam wasn't their choice.

 

I think Viduka CAN play in it, but he's just not really the player we need there, if we insist on 433, is he? He's not a particularly good/consistent striker. I'd have a number of other players instaed of him (although not Ameobi, natch).

[Guest alex]

Good article, spot on.

Aye, I can see Owen being behind Ameobi in the pecking order.

[Parky]

The crux of the 433 is the first phase of the attack where a mid-range ball comes out of def/deepmf to a strong/pacey/mobile striker pulling wide. None of out strikers actually fit that bill. Martins is closest but is shit at bringing others into play.

[toptoon]

For our next game i'd start with:

 

                      Ameobi 

Milner                                     Martins

 

           Zoggy   Butt   Smith

 

Enrique   Roze    Taylor     Geremi

 

                    Harper

 

Subs: Forster, Cacapa, Emre?, Carroll, Owen

 

I'd rest Viduka as he must need it being so non existant in both our games. Also look to bring on at least Emre (ASAP) for probably Zoggy and Owen at some point in the game , possibly Cacapa late on as well.

 

However i have a sneaking suspicion that Car will play RB again  

[Optimistic Nut]

I was embarrassed to see Owen in the black and white on Saturday.

 

Too old?

No, he was just awful.

first game in a long time,i remember shearers first games back after long term injuries.

 

owen has till january to persuade us,so does martins when i think of it.i'd swap either for huntelaar

 

Yep, people forget just how awful Shearer was for the rest of the 97-8 season when he'd came back. Only scored 6 goals, one came against relegated Palace, and four came in the FA Cup against Stevenage, Tranmere & Sheff Utd.

[merlin]

if, as that article suggests, ameobi will be ahead of owen in the striker order, then football can f*** off.

 

I agree 100% mate. If Viduka is ahead of Owen then football and Allardyce should f*** off. I honestly see us as being a slightly better side than Bolton, better players but no flair. THAT IS NOT THE NEWCASTLE UNITED WAY.

Probably only a matter of time till both Martins and Owen leave if we carry on where we left of on Saturday.

The last couple of seasons I've been downhearted because we've under acheived. Sunday morning I was still in a bad mood after 90 minutes of a high punt into the box. Newcastle United should be above this.

 

 

You are clearly under 50 years of age - high balls 'NOT THE NEWCASTLE WAY'..

In 1969, we won the club's ONLY Trophy worth talking about in 40 years using a version of that strategy - most of the Foreign sides we faced simply couldn't handle Wyn Davies' ability to jump higher than their defenders, and Pop Robson picked up the pieces to blast in some memorable goals.....

 

It wasn't ALL about that, but gradually, the side tended to resort to that weapon, with a tough defence(Moncur, Burton/McNamee, Craig & Clark to back it up.

It was only when Davies went in 1971 that we started to try to play - Supermac was good in the air, but not like Davies, and we used his pace on the deck.

 

Don't get me wrong - I like to see football played the Brazilian way, but not many can get away with that ;

KK's team won nowt, despite some of the best football played at SJP in 40 years...

 

I personally couldn't care less if we win every game 1-0 by boring people to death - Football today is about money & success  - if you don't have the latter, you won't get the former and the better players you can buy with it..

 

NUFC fans are going to have to live on a sparse diet for a while and become, like the team, more professional.

[Guest Novocastrian]

Owen has much, much more to his game than being a mere "poacher". He can link with the play and bring others into the game. However, if Sam is set on playing his long ball game he needs to go and buy the strikers to play it. Viduka may be a big bloke but he's nothing to write home about in the air and is much more comfortable with the ball at his feet. It's very early days but at the moment the style of football doesn't seem to suit any of our front players. Long balls pumped up to Viduka, who rarely even challenged for them, is not playing to anyones strengths.

[thenige]

Umm, the problem with his article is when Owen came on against Villa we actually changed to more of a  4-4-2 with him and Vids up front. Or was that just me that noticed that? 

[Northern Monkey]

Umm, the problem with his article is when Owen came on against Villa we actually changed to more of a  4-4-2 with him and Vids up front. Or was that just me that noticed that? 

 

Someone didn't tell the "wide" men that then.

[Northern Monkey]

if, as that article suggests, ameobi will be ahead of owen in the striker order, then football can f*** off.

 

I agree 100% mate. If Viduka is ahead of Owen then football and Allardyce should f*** off. I honestly see us as being a slightly better side than Bolton, better players but no flair. THAT IS NOT THE NEWCASTLE UNITED WAY.

Probably only a matter of time till both Martins and Owen leave if we carry on where we left of on Saturday.

The last couple of seasons I've been downhearted because we've under acheived. Sunday morning I was still in a bad mood after 90 minutes of a high punt into the box. Newcastle United should be above this.

 

 

You are clearly under 50 years of age - high balls 'NOT THE NEWCASTLE WAY'..

In 1969, we won the club's ONLY Trophy worth talking about in 40 years using a version of that strategy - most of the Foreign sides we faced simply couldn't handle Wyn Davies' ability to jump higher than their defenders, and Pop Robson picked up the pieces to blast in some memorable goals.....

 

It wasn't ALL about that, but gradually, the side tended to resort to that weapon, with a tough defence(Moncur, Burton/McNamee, Craig & Clark to back it up.

It was only when Davies went in 1971 that we started to try to play - Supermac was good in the air, but not like Davies, and we used his pace on the deck.

 

Don't get me wrong - I like to see football played the Brazilian way, but not many can get away with that ;

KK's team won nowt, despite some of the best football played at SJP in 40 years...

 

I personally couldn't care less if we win every game 1-0 by boring people to death - Football today is about money & success  - if you don't have the latter, you won't get the former and the better players you can buy with it..

 

NUFC fans are going to have to live on a sparse diet for a while and become, like the team, more professional.

 

We won't get those wins with a 433 and our current players, though, and as Bolton showed, it doesn't actually bring that much tangible success playing that playing that way.

[Cronky]

I'm not a fan of Martin Samuel. I think he sometimes talks crap just to be controversial. But this assessment of Owen is spot on, as is Allardyce's assessment of how Owen performed at the World Cup.

 

I think Owen faces a challenge. The game is changing, and he has to show that he has the range of skills to adapt. Even in a 4-4-2, the top teams can't afford to have a specialist goal hanger.

[Parky]

I'm not a fan of Martin Samuel. I think he sometimes talks crap just to be controversial. But this assessment of Owen is spot on, as is Allardyce's assessment of how Owen performed at the World Cup.

 

I think Owen faces a challenge. The game is changing, and he has to show that he has the range of skills to adapt. Even in a 4-4-2, the top teams can't afford to have a specialist goal hanger.

 

 

mackems.gif

 

 

[Northern Monkey]

I'm not a fan of Martin Samuel. I think he sometimes talks crap just to be controversial. But this assessment of Owen is spot on, as is Allardyce's assessment of how Owen performed at the World Cup.

 

I think Owen faces a challenge. The game is changing, and he has to show that he has the range of skills to adapt. Even in a 4-4-2, the top teams can't afford to have a specialist goal hanger.

 

 

In fact at a number of things in there.

[OzzieMandias]

Better than a specialist monkey hanger.

[Guest Sniffer]

If Owen scores 15-20 goals this season you'll change your tune.

 

By the way bob, want to elaborate on the range of skills that ameobi has as you are his number one fan?

[Northern Monkey]

If Owen scores 15-20 goals this season you'll change your tune.

 

By the way bob, want to elaborate on the range of skills that ameobi has as you are his number one fan?

 

if Owen plays a full season, in a decent team with a decent formation/style, he'll get 15+. But he won't in a 433 for us, i'm afraid.

[Cronky]

I'm not a fan of Martin Samuel. I think he sometimes talks crap just to be controversial. But this assessment of Owen is spot on, as is Allardyce's assessment of how Owen performed at the World Cup.

 

I think Owen faces a challenge. The game is changing, and he has to show that he has the range of skills to adapt. Even in a 4-4-2, the top teams can't afford to have a specialist goal hanger.

 

 

mackems.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

In fact at a number of things in there.

 

 

[Cronky]

If Owen scores 15-20 goals this season you'll change your tune.

 

By the way bob, want to elaborate on the range of skills that ameobi has as you are his number one fan?

 

Okay, 'goal hanger' is harsh. Big Sam's description of 'predator' hits the mark though.

 

Owen is great at getting on the end of chances in the penalty box, so if he plays nearly every game, it's not inconceivable that he'll get 15+ goals. Ultimately though, what counts is how many the team score, and how many games they win. Owen doesn't get very involved in the build up, and doesn't create much for his team mates. That's the dilemma that Allardyce himself put forward. Can you afford a player like that, or do you go for more of an all-rounder?

 

I'm not saying Owen can't adapt. We've seen so little of him over the last two years, it's impossible to say. In fairness, he showed one or two nice touches on Saturday, even though they didn't ultimately come off.

 

During the World Cup, it was clear that he was a bit at odds with Eriksson, who wanted him to do more work outside the penalty area. Owen publicly asserted that he was a specialist finisher. His injury saved Eriksson from a tricky decision. But I think Owen does have to adjust his game if he's to get back to the top again.

 

As for Shola, he's a player who offers something entirely different.

[Robster]

Personally, I think that no matter where you play Owen on the pitch, when the ball gets close to the box, he has the natural ability and instinct to get himself into the right place at the right time and thereofre make himself effective.

Sven completely fucked up that England squad so who is Martin Samuels to say how he would play if better managed.

 

With regards to the Villa game. Apart from the fact that it was his first game back in ages, the team on the day didnt create anything therefore eveyone looked bad - not just Owen.

[Guest Sniffer]

Absolutely right Bob. ameobi does offer something entirely different. Clearly you don't want to elaborate on it because he offers fuck all. Only an idiot would start ameobi with the options we have up front but you don't have to look far for them on this board.