Isegrim

He raped us down the left from what I remember. And Emre and Martins tore a much better Arsenal side apart. One swallow does not make a Champions League tie... or something. But in total Henry was already a well established player before he moved to Arsenal (wasn't he France's best scorer at the WC in 1998?), he only had a couple of poor months at Juve but didn't need work at basic skills at Arsenal to make him a world star. Martins had several years of arguably good coaching at Inter and still has major flaws in his game. I am sceptical about him getting a moment of 'Heureka!' out of a sudden... Was Martins not a well established player? I'd heard of him a long time before we bought him, not bad for a 21 year old. Martins has 11 in 15 for Nigeria too, a pretty good record - an international goals record hardly tells you anything. Do you know who Henry's 3 goals in '98 were against? 1 vs South Africa, 2 vs Saudi Arabia. Don't think I'm trying to take anything away from Henry either - the man is brilliant beyond belief. It isn't about against which teams Henry scored during the world cup the point is rather that he was already a full member of the French squad at a World Cup at home where he actually got games despite his young age. He was just under 21, not that young. Stephane Guivarc'h got games in that squad too, it's nothing to shout about. I don't think Martins will ever develop into anyone as good in Henry - in fact he almost certainly won't because Henry is so good - but I don't think it's so far-fetched to say Henry was not that much better at that sort of age, although obviously Wenger's conversion of him to a striker was what really triggered his development. I totally agree that Martins is not the finished article but I also don't agree that he's not worth what we paid. Not now maybe, but in the future, I think he will be worth that and more. Wenger paid £16m purely for potential in Walcott - and I've seen little to suggest that he'll ever be worth that, but then I don't see Arsenal much and I know how good Wenger is so I think he'll probably get there. I think Martins will too - I definitely think he CAN, hopefully at NUFC. I know one thing - I'm miles more confident in him developing under Allardyce than under the clown that's been coaching him so far. I knew someone (you) would bring up G'u'iv'arse. ;-) And HTL is totally right. It isn't that any of his critics are suggesting Martins has been poor, but rather that some people are sceptical about his ability to progress in future. That's why I would accept an offer that meant we would recoup the money we paid for him. If he isn't able to get rid of his flaws he will never be worth 10m as he will have far too many off-games that will outweigh his occasional moments of brilliance (and I won't deny he has them, and which is all people - myself included - base their hope on). My concern is rather that Newcastle at the current stage cannot afford to gamble on his future progress. He might come good, but there is also at least imho a big risk that he won't develop any further. So at the moment we have a 26m quid strike force that I can't see being able to work together. So I'd sell either of Martins or Owen to use the cash to rebuild the squad and actually buy a striker that compliments Martins/Owen. Something that already should have been done last summer (with the addition of another backup striker).

He raped us down the left from what I remember. And Emre and Martins tore a much better Arsenal side apart. One swallow does not make a Champions League tie... or something. But in total Henry was already a well established player before he moved to Arsenal (wasn't he France's best scorer at the WC in 1998?), he only had a couple of poor months at Juve but didn't need work at basic skills at Arsenal to make him a world star. Martins had several years of arguably good coaching at Inter and still has major flaws in his game. I am sceptical about him getting a moment of 'Heureka!' out of a sudden... Was Martins not a well established player? I'd heard of him a long time before we bought him, not bad for a 21 year old. Martins has 11 in 15 for Nigeria too, a pretty good record - an international goals record hardly tells you anything. Do you know who Henry's 3 goals in '98 were against? 1 vs South Africa, 2 vs Saudi Arabia. Don't think I'm trying to take anything away from Henry either - the man is brilliant beyond belief. It isn't about against which teams Henry scored during the world cup, the point is rather that he was already a full member of the French squad at a World Cup at home, where he actually got games despite his young age. Of course Martins was sort of "established" at Inter. He was a fringe player who got occasional games in the late stages against tiring defences. That isn't bad for a 21-year old though, but it doesn't make him worth 10m quid or put him on par with someone like Henry at the same stage of his career. I just repeat I am very sceptical about him ever getting rid of the far too obvious flaws in his game and that's why I am not sure if he will ever develop in a top player. That's why I would have no problem in accepting the same amount of money we paid for him.

He raped us down the left from what I remember. And Emre and Martins tore a much better Arsenal side apart. One swallow does not make a Champions League tie... or something. But in total Henry was already a well established player before he moved to Arsenal (wasn't he France's best scorer at the WC in 1998?), he only had a couple of poor months at Juve but didn't need work at basic skills at Arsenal to make him a world star. Martins had several years of arguably good coaching at Inter and still has major flaws in his game. I am sceptical about him getting a moment of 'Heureka!' out of a sudden...

Fuuuuck me. http://www.toontastic.net/forum/style_emoticons/default/gay.gif

Why do they have to teach defending tactics if the strikers seem not be taught how to move off the ball?

Berbatov, like Drogba, another player who, and I know this might come as a foreign concept to some, improved with age and experience. I don't think anyone is really denying the possibility to improve with age but rather that they can't see this happening with Martins. I am pretty sure Martins has the ability to work on his composure in front of goal (just like Berbatov did, which was the biggest flaw in his game) and maybe his touch. But I can't see him developing a genuine understanding of the game if he wasn't able to learn this in Italy where they coach tactics as much as in nowhere else in the world. And for this he will be never able to really make use of his probably biggest asset, his pace.

I don't disagree with that at all. But this was rather down to Martins ending up in being our only recognised striker. That's why NE5/Leazes wasn't totally wrong in saying that we needed another striker. If Martins had injured himself post-January we would have been in big trouble (although Martins didn't really set the world alight in this period at all except of the Sheffield game). And that is why I had rather signed a back up goal getter next to a future partner for Owen last summer for the sum of 10m.

I think he wasn't what we needed. Of course, with the retirement of Shearer and the long term injury of Owen we obviously needed someone to get us goals. But was it really wise to spend 10m on a player probably far too similar to Owen? We would have been better of investing the money in a partner for Owen, when he is coming back and else sign a backup goal scorer like Viduka (and I am also still sure if we had signed Hasselbaink on a free he would have done a job for us over the season up front). Now we have the problem of a 26m strikeforce who hardly fit together. And either Martins and Owen are simply too expensive to be wasted on the bench. So one of them should be sold to generate money for positions where the team needs strengthening. I agree actually. I was oversimplifying matters in that I think we desperately needed a striker whose goals would keep us up no matter what and given Roeder's contacts (or lack of them) he was probably the best we could get etc. He did help keep us up with his goals so it worked (sort of). It's the whole "without Martins' goals" we would have gone down, that really annoys me. Of course it is technically correct, but I don't think we would have ever played a season without a recognised striker up front. I am pretty sure any other half decent striker would have secured the necessary amount of points as well - if not even more...

I could easily do without any player doing less occasional "special" things, but rather doing the easy things right on a more consistent basis. And Martins only "special" thing in the league was his wonderstrike against Spurs. If he had put away some of the easier chance presented to him in games like against Pompey etc. then we would have been in a much more comfortable league position.

I think he wasn't what we needed. Of course, with the retirement of Shearer and the long term injury of Owen we obviously needed someone to get us goals. But was it really wise to spend 10m on a player probably far too similar to Owen? We would have been better of investing the money in a partner for Owen, when he is coming back and else sign a backup goal scorer like Viduka (and I am also still sure if we had signed Hasselbaink on a free he would have done a job for us over the season up front). Now we have the problem of a 26m strikeforce who hardly fit together. And either Martins and Owen are simply too expensive to be wasted on the bench. So one of them should be sold to generate money for positions where the team needs strengthening.

So Berbatov is a worse goalscorer than Martins but actually managed to score more. Hmm... aye comparing a player who got 11 goals in the league to one that got 12 in the league is a bit unfair. Especially if the one who scored more is apparently a worse goal scorer...

Agree with you about Martins He is super talent and i hope that he'll remain with us next season. If not i hope we dont sell him for less then 15m because that would be a disgrace About people wanting Anelka as a replacement for Martins: Martins-43=17 goals Anelka-38=12 goals I would rather go for Darren Bent instead of Anelka Bent-34=15 goals The negative parts of Martins' game, i.e. his movement and touch, are pretty shocking imo. Under the right manager the firt one will be transformed to more productive element of his game. Under Roeder he ran like a clueless chicken Under Allardyce his runs will be more reasonable and if he has some decent player playing alongside him who is good in the air he will get even better and his runs will be even more productive. Remember Shearer-Bellamy partnership? What makes you think that he will now learn something (movement) he couldn't learn in Italy, probably the most tactical astute league, under various high profile managers?

If only that were true. Like, even in the slightest bit. In my experience it is, and I have moderated forums myself. And like it or not, but one of the best administrated football forum on the internet imho is the smb where they don't make that much of fuzz about all these things. All I can say is, in my experience it's the opposite. When we don't moderate this place, all we do is get told how f****** s**** it is. Tell me, why don't you post here, Isegrim? Is it cause you think it's s**** here? I post little as I have actually a job to do (and I'm not Gemmill) and restrict myself to other forums where, yes, I like it more (I wouldn't say it's just because I think it's s*** here). I still flick through threads here but only make contributions when I think maybe a view from an outsider (normally when people refer to Jorman football) might be needed. But with only being online here rarely I mostly judge the threads by looking at the last poster. I probably miss loads of interesting threads because I don't like the one who replied last, because you often know how the discussion is going just by looking at the names. That's also one of the reasons why I think it isn't that bad when similar topics are discussed in various threads. I rather would scroll down the site with a wheel mouse than click myself through multiple pages threads to see if anyone posted something interesting.

If only that were true. Like, even in the slightest bit. In my experience it is, and I have moderated forums myself. And like it or not, but one of the best administrated football forum on the internet imho is the smb where they don't make that much of fuzz about all these things.

Take it like you want. But it is something I really don't like at forums in general (and control freaks are as much an integral part of the internet as trolls etc.) and I can't get my head around how otherwise clever people really see the need for those kind of things.

Honestly, I can't understand the fixation some people have with the need to control everything. I don't think there was a problem with too many threads started recently. And if, what's the problem. I actually think it is often better when things are discussed in different threads as different conversation develop while this is often hindered when various dialogues are mixed up in just one thread. The only thing I understand is the need of match threads to stop hundred of imbeciles of posting GOAAAALLLL (or with the variation of GOOOAAAL or GET IN!!! SHEARAAAA etc.). If a thread is a duplicate and not worth a reply with better threads existing it will wander down the page quickly. So basically a forum mostly moderates itself without the need for a bunch of mini Hitlers in Gestapo costumes patrolling and deciding about the worthiness of threads/posts. And I am actually rather tempted to read threads started from new posters than some of the drivel certain existing numpties post again and again... Anyway, this thread gave me the idea of opening a pub where I restrict people of starting discussions. They must have drunk more than 100 pints there before. They are of course free to take part in other discussions. But people who start already existing discussions will be moved to a different table of course. I

Zose who are not allowed to start zreads should be given yellov stars as avatars.

Which is admirable aswell. Never been a regular in the Inter side yet comes here and is expected to be the main man. And he's done that. What is admirable? We bought an ageless fringe player from Inter for a very huge fee who is - despite some obvious shortcomings in his game - seen as the footballing reincarnation of Mozart by some. I'd admire him if he was exceeding expectations and/or his price tag.

Another brilliant piece of Anal O. today once again linking him with Bayern for the umpteenth time although Bayern who have been linked to hundreds of players in recent weeks here haven't been linked with Emre at all (Hertha is the only German club currently rumoured to be interested). We've discounted Hertha haven't we Ise? We did.

Another brilliant piece of Anal O. today once again linking him with Bayern for the umpteenth time although Bayern who have been linked to hundreds of players in recent weeks here haven't been linked with Emre at all (Hertha is the only German club currently rumoured to be interested).

Income it generated totally different in German football. Sponsorship, especially shirt deals contribute far more to the general income than ticket sales (e.g. the mentioned deal with Gazprom). The article is a bit very rose tinted. Schalke have suffered a lot from the way the club is run in the past, e.g. voted absolute nutters and simpletons for president in AGMs. Their recent success is to a certain extent down to in fact reducing fan power. To call them the most popular fans in Germany is also stretching it a bit (a huge bit tbh).

I guess Emre and Parker both do get much more money at Newcastle than they would at Everton. Same is likely to apply for Duff. Anyway, Gullit's point was about top players from abroad and the big clubs and not mediocre players with interest from other mid-table clubs.

Well, in recent days the only real top player who signed for Newcastle was Michael Owen - and he really fits into Gullit's analysis tbh.

Would you leave threads unmerged for some dosh?

Nope, no idea. Any clues?? Must be someone who rarely played. Ollie Bernard? maybe he was a mystery trialist... Ah, you mean like the Turkish bloke? Maybe he was some Spaniard to boost the happiness of Alberta Luque?