Howaythelads

Good point and interesting to note that the main catalysts for the transformation of Robson's team was the introduction of 2 hated players (at least on this forum) in Laurent Robert and Craig Bellamy.

No one passed it well today. We're not talking about everyone else though, we're talking about Smith and his distribution was poor which put us under continued pressure. Barton was infinetly more guilty then Smith, who had a decent game today. Broke up lots of play and saved a shot off the line. He was asked to do a job and did it adequately. Barton was once again passed by in this game, same as last week. I wasn't over the moon when we signed him because to be honest, I never noticed him that much at Man City, seeing him pretty much as an average footballer. I'm not at all convinced he's good enough but now he's in a black and white shirt I'll see more of him and so will be better placed to have an opinion by the end of the season.

Failed to score again today, so that's one goal in his last 48 games for the stat' people. It's a really s*** striker who can't score 20 goals a season from midfield, especially if playing the holding role like he did quite well at today....... I think that I shall never see my cataracts are blinding me... I'm obviously not going to expect goalscoring to be high on his list of priorities when he plays in the position he did today. However, how often has he played in the holding role in those 48 games? Smith's goalscoring, or lack of it is secondary issue behind his general effectiveness on the pitch, which has been his biggest problem throughout his career. It's hard to identify what his qualities and role in the side is most of the time. I said "midfield" before I said "holding role." That means the "holding role" bit is secondary to Smith being used out of position in midfield generally. I'm not a stat man like you, so perhaps you'll know where to check this out because I don't. I reckon Smith has played the majority of those 48 games out of position in midfield, but perhaps I'm wrong. He's not great in any role and I wouldn't suggest he is, however, only a fool judges a striker on his goal scoring record when the player has been used as a midfielder for the majority of the time.

Couldn't disagree more with that. I'm surprised at you making this comment, tbh. A natural midfielder playing in their strongest position is going to do everything a midfielder should be doing better than a striker playing in midfield. Can you explain your logic behind the idea that a striker playing in midfield should score goals from midfield? I think it's obvious that an entirely different set of attributes are needed to score goals as a midfielder compared to a striker.

Failed to score again today, so that's one goal in his last 48 games for the stat' people. It's a really shit striker who can't score 20 goals a season from midfield, especially if playing the holding role like he did quite well at today.......

What attributes do you think he has to make him become a top player? He's strong, can read the game well for his age, rarely gets skinned (See Petrov for an exception this season though) and can challenge. I think his timing of the challenge can sometimes let him down as can his rashness but he's only a young lad and hasn't really played alongside a good experienced centre half for any length of time. I find your constant sniping of our squad a bit boring. You love a fucking whinge don't you? He isn't strong though, nor can he read the game very well because if he could he wouldn't get caught out as much as he does with his positioning. I don't snipe at our squad, I can just recognise an average player when I see one and the players you named are just that, except Owen of course but he isn't the same player after his knee injury, that is obvious to anyone who's seen him. Anyway lets keep it on topic. We'll never agree on this nor most things it seems. I disagree with the positioning comment when he plays at centre half. I think it's a fair comment in regard to his spell at right back but not in his natural position. He has been caught out in the past but not excessively given his relative age and experience. Remember Carragher as a kid? You talk of average players like you expect us to have world class players in every position. We're an average club at this moment in time so thats not going to happen AND, just think, if we did happen to sign a plethora of world class players what would you find to whinge about? I'm also a fan of Milner and one of the few Smith fans on here too, albeit when he's played in his natural position so we're unlikely to agree on much going forward. If Taylor is poor at RB it obviously means he's poor in is natural position of CB as well. Didn't you know that, already?

Ahhh. Isn't that nice...... Someone pass me a sick bag.

What attributes do you think he has to make him become a top player? He's strong, can read the game well for his age, rarely gets skinned (See Petrov for an exception this season though) and can challenge. I think his timing of the challenge can sometimes let him down as can his rashness but he's only a young lad and hasn't really played alongside a good experienced centre half for any length of time. I find your constant sniping of our squad a bit boring. You love a fucking whinge don't you?

I don't think Smith has any baggage, Parky. He's a player who gives 100% and that's it. I think by some people he's been lumped into the same category as Bowyer in terms of them seeing him as some kind of trouble maker and general scumbag. I can't think why 'cos he's done nowt wrong, but there you go. Barton has more baggage than Smith.

Ok Johnny, you have your view. Nice to see people can disagree like adults. The point really is that all managers have their own ideas, but Parker played in midfield [where he is best] and Smith has played mostly in midfield [when he should be playing up front]. I've got a question for you though. Do you think Smith is a better forward than Ameobi, and if so, do you think it justifies now showing Ameobi the door with Smith in the club ? around the same level overall but very different players. ameobi is better in the box and presents more of a goal threat, but smith is a lot better outside of the box, does more work, has a crisper touch, better passer of the ball and so on. it probably makes more sense having smith as one of our striking quartet, that way we have two support strikers who can link and drop deep(Smith, Viduka) and two goalscorers on the shoulder or in the box (Martins, Owen). so i'd consider Smith a 4th choice striker and ameobi replacement, nothing better, and a poor signing considering the fee and wages. the thing about his supposed versatility i don't buy as i think he's crap in midfield. And this is the proper criteria when gauging his level of performance. A good post.

Depends on whether or not FS uses Smith consistently in his strongest position and whether or not he can put a team together that can create something for any of the strikers. If he continues with square pegs in round holes and with using unfit players just because he signed them, then any striker will struggle.

I couldn't disagree more, Jon. Parker was used in his strongest position at this club. He had every chance, he just wasn't good enough and dragged everybody down with him. By the way, what I've said about Smith is that I think he has the attributes to be a decent striker if he's used consistently in that role and given a run. At the same time we do need some creativity in the team for any of the strikers to do the business, so I'm not rushing into judgements about Smith. You haven't said it here, but your emphasis on Smith being average seems to point to the possibility you think I've said he's better than that. I haven't and I just want to be clear about that. I've also said I may be proven wrong if he gets that run and doesn't do the business. I'm not sure what people see so peculiar about my position on this. I hope people aren't going to start making stuff up again... I have to disagree about Parker being used in his strongest position, most of the time it seemed like he and Emre would not have a set position so they would swap roles during the match which never worked. The rest of the time Emre was being played in a holding role which really didn't suit him and the partnership failed. I expect some of the kids will slag me for saying it, but I think I was probably the first on here to start shouting about the Parker/Emre partnership being shite (and was I soundly slated for it), so you aren't telling me anything here that I don't already know, Jon. My opinion though is that Emre, despite his liimitations, is a better player than Parker and always was. Parker and his inability to release the ball early and his general poor passing ability was always the major problem, despite the stats people telling us all how good his passing was.

Interested in how you know this for sure. I can see how you can judge Parker as a midfielder since he's played his entire career there but you can't say you've seen a great deal of Smith as a striker, can you?

I agree. It's nowt to do with Parker but you brought him into the discussion for some reason.

See what I mean. Personally, I think Alan Smith is much more valuable to the club than Parker, but Parker is a product of the manager who "would rid the club of the cancer and lets stick by him because thats what Alex Ferguson did and look at him now" brigade. Of which you were one, if I remember correctly. I hope you aren't defending Kieron Dyer, like Matthew is, having had 8 years to prove his worth to the club mackems.gif Same old NE5, going down the "if I remember correctly" and "I hope you aren't" without any REAL substance in the post. I don't think Smith is any more valuable than Parker, we sold Parker and replaced him with a better player (imo) but a bigger liability in Barton and we could have gotten a better player than Smith for that £6m. Jon, the idea we could have signed a better player for £6m could be used with almost every transfer. I think we could have signed a better player than Barton, we could have signed a better player than lots of players signed by the club over the years. When Keegan signed Asprilla he could have signed Zola. When Robson signed Cort he apparently could have signed Gudthingy. This definitely isn't the way to judge a player, so keeping the thing in context it's just not relevant. I hope Smith and the £6m price tag isn't going to be this seasons equivalent of the money spent on Duff could have been better spent on a fullback monologue.

I couldn't disagree more, Jon. Parker was used in his strongest position at this club. He had every chance, he just wasn't good enough and dragged everybody down with him. By the way, what I've said about Smith is that I think he has the attributes to be a decent striker if he's used consistently in that role and given a run. At the same time we do need some creativity in the team for any of the strikers to do the business, so I'm not rushing into judgements about Smith. You haven't said it here, but your emphasis on Smith being average seems to point to the possibility you think I've said he's better than that. I haven't and I just want to be clear about that. I've also said I may be proven wrong if he gets that run and doesn't do the business. I'm not sure what people see so peculiar about my position on this. I hope people aren't going to start making stuff up again...

Jon If Parker had been utilised here as a striker you'd have a point.

blueyes.gif And all of the people who hated Luque are the one's supporting Smith. mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif No, I had no time for Luque from day 1. And I was right in that respect too. And Baggio has had no time for Smith from day one. Let's see eh? Faggio doesn't have a record of getting things right though. Some people sussed out Luque very early as being a player with a very bad attitude who didn't want to play for the club. It wasn't difficult to see that he was a waster and wouldn't make it here. In the case of Smith it's a bit more difficult. When he's been used as a striker off and on he's looked a decent player at other clubs, he's not over the hill so there's no reason why he can't do a decent job here if he's played to his strengths. It's about square pegs in round holes again. Something that people clearly recognised last weekend regarding the useless Milner and Zog but for some reason completely ignore it when it comes to Smith. Despite it demonstrating an enormous ignorance of football I understand the reasons why some people want to judge Smith as a midfielder though, for some reason they just don't like him. What these people can't criticise him for though is his desire to pull on the shirt and play for the club. Unlike Luque.

Phrases along the lines of "it's always been like this" just aren't true. The phrase of "that familiar circle of pressure, impatience and reaction" doesn't apply until after the departure of Keegan, to be honest. So I can only imagine that some memories are rather short, unless they don't really mean that "it's always been like this." After saying that, even after the Keegan times, Robson had 5 years because he was clearly doing ok, you simply can't stick with a manager who is obviously not doing a good job. Relegation lies down that road and the club can't afford relegation. What really hasn't changed is that we've won nowt but the club as a whole has changed massively over the years I've been a supporter. What we have now are a load of people who appear to be demanding success as though we have some kind of right to success. They may not think they're like this but they do create that impression when they get up and walk out when the 4th goal goes in, or they boo our own players or (according to some) even laugh at our own players. The club doesn't need this type of supporter but that's what they've ended up with.

So Milner hasn't been better than Smith this season on the basis that you refuse to rate Smith as a midfielder even though he's spent the majority of his time in that position here and at his last club? What did you think of Smith on Saturday? Smith was crap on Saturday. Other than being totally unable to accept that Smith isn't a midfielder and so can't be judged as one, what's your point? So how have you formed the opinion that someone saying Milner has been better than Smith this season being worth mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif ? I think Smith was better of the two on Saturday. Both anonymous but Smith has the better haircut. Smith is a far better footballer. Less spots as well. It's hard to tell with all of the make up tbh. Preffer Milner out of the two. Milners not had the bst of starts but he'll get better i'm sure especially if used on the RW. Smith i feel sorry for as his worst display was in a position that he preffers not to play in i.e. RW V Derby and he got slated big time for that although he tried his best. As a CM he's not that good either imo. It comes as no great shock that he was very good up top in his first game there for us. Obviously last game was a complete write off pretty much all round starting from sam's team selection i.e. no emre + Zoggy and Milner on the wrong wings and of course our defence + pompeys superior team set up dominating the midfield. Sound post.

So Milner hasn't been better than Smith this season on the basis that you refuse to rate Smith as a midfielder even though he's spent the majority of his time in that position here and at his last club? What did you think of Smith on Saturday? Smith was crap on Saturday. Other than being totally unable to accept that Smith isn't a midfielder and so can't be judged as one, what's your point? So how have you formed the opinion that someone saying Milner has been better than Smith this season being worth mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif ? Jeez. You take everything so literally, don't you. I'm laughing at the idea that Milner is generally regarded by some as a better player than Smith, which is without a doubt what some are saying over many posts in many threads. Think "big picture." I can't be arsed with you already.

So Milner hasn't been better than Smith this season on the basis that you refuse to rate Smith as a midfielder even though he's spent the majority of his time in that position here and at his last club? What did you think of Smith on Saturday? Smith was crap on Saturday. Other than being totally unable to accept that Smith isn't a midfielder and so can't be judged as one, what's your point?

Such as? The twats booing him off the pitch when he was subbed? Or the people on here talking about how Taylor should have played instead even though he's been poor all season. I didn't hear any booing tbh. Everyone around me was just stunned. Saying Taylor should have played is just using hindsight in it's most traditional fashion; I don't see how that is getting on Cacapa's back. I didn't hear any booing either, nor anyone getting on Cacapa's back. In fact, all I heard were comments about how good he's been all season and wtf was happening. That seems like giving him the benefit of any doubt rather than getting on his back. Perhaps it was just the people around me in the gallowgate. Maybe. I read something yesterday from boo boo stating that people in the Gallowgate were laughing at our own players. I've never come across that in nearly 40 years, so perhaps the Gallowgate has a large section of retards somewhere in there.

Milner better than Smith? mackems.gif mackems.gif mackems.gif Most of the time Milner has been used in his strongest position and has been shit, he slows the play down more than Parker did. On the other hand Smith has consistently been used out of position and so needs a run up front. When he's had that I'll judge the value of signing Smith and not before.

Such as? The twats booing him off the pitch when he was subbed? Or the people on here talking about how Taylor should have played instead even though he's been poor all season. I didn't hear any booing tbh. Everyone around me was just stunned. Saying Taylor should have played is just using hindsight in it's most traditional fashion; I don't see how that is getting on Cacapa's back. I didn't hear any booing either, nor anyone getting on Cacapa's back. In fact, all I heard were comments about how good he's been all season and wtf was happening. That seems like giving him the benefit of any doubt rather than getting on his back.