Howaythelads

How many games has Smith played up front and how much creativity has been in the team during those limited minutes when he has? I remember your opinion of a few years ago that strikers should score 20 goals each season even if they aren't being used as a striker, so I'm not surprised you can't see the obvious.

I agree with that. Aside from the flurry of speculation amidst Ashley's takeover, he and Mort (A&M) have kept their ambitions for the future close to their chests surprisingly successfully, particularly given (partly because?) they've presented themselves as open and eager to engage with us as supporters. The next time they're getting slaughtered in the Bigg Market, someone should ask them just what they're intending to achieve... My sense is that they're happy to go along with Allardyce for next season, so long as we make the top 8, maybe even the top half. I don't really base that on evidence harder than the likes of the manner with which Mort presents in interviews and Ashley's demeanour in public; the way he looks contented with some of the performances he's witnessed (some might say the number on his shirt exhibits the standard he's happy with, at least for the time being). The question is whether all that stuff about spending sprees and wanting Allardyce to "think as big as he could" was partly paper talk or not - MA's comments about being prepared to spend more of his own wealth than other owners suggests the latter. I wonder whether events at Manchester City over the past half year have made them think, as well - they have emerged as our most obvious rivals in any fight to break into the CL monopoly. I'd been a supporter of Allardyce coming to our club for some time prior to his arrival. Ironically, half of my reasoning for this was smashed apart only days after it finally happened. I felt he was someone as good as we could attract in our circumstances, who could make an even greater impact with our natural resources and would overhaul bad practices in player management, refuse to bow to board pressure on all matters and could work on a small budget. With Ashley, the club had a larger budget, seemingly would innately understand the need to improve club practice, supposedly would allow a competent manager to do his job without unnecessary interference and, ultimately, probably could have attracted a high quality manager with more established credentials, no "proving" required. January will tell us a lot, then. I hope Ashley gives us a nice wodge of his own money, and I look forward to seeing Allardyce given the opportunity to spend it. All the same, it might become apparent that A&M have ideas higher than Allardyce, and will seek to find someone who matches their's more closely. Looks like your reasoning for wanting Allardyce here was flawed in some places, unless you believe Souness was a yes-man. I think in effect he was, at times, yes. Fundamentally, he was self-interested. He'd do what he thought was good for himself. Different thing really, mate. I know people like to claim there was Board interference in the extreme at Newcastle, but I seriously doubt there was that much. Souness was self-interested for sure, he put himself ahead of the team and club every day he was manager in my opinion, but that doesn't mean he gave in to Board interference and such like.

Depends who was appointed as the new manager. You could view it as a sign of ambition.

I agree with that. Aside from the flurry of speculation amidst Ashley's takeover, he and Mort (A&M) have kept their ambitions for the future close to their chests surprisingly successfully, particularly given (partly because?) they've presented themselves as open and eager to engage with us as supporters. The next time they're getting slaughtered in the Bigg Market, someone should ask them just what they're intending to achieve... My sense is that they're happy to go along with Allardyce for next season, so long as we make the top 8, maybe even the top half. I don't really base that on evidence harder than the likes of the manner with which Mort presents in interviews and Ashley's demeanour in public; the way he looks contented with some of the performances he's witnessed (some might say the number on his shirt exhibits the standard he's happy with, at least for the time being). The question is whether all that stuff about spending sprees and wanting Allardyce to "think as big as he could" was partly paper talk or not - MA's comments about being prepared to spend more of his own wealth than other owners suggests the latter. I wonder whether events at Manchester City over the past half year have made them think, as well - they have emerged as our most obvious rivals in any fight to break into the CL monopoly. I'd been a supporter of Allardyce coming to our club for some time prior to his arrival. Ironically, half of my reasoning for this was smashed apart only days after it finally happened. I felt he was someone as good as we could attract in our circumstances, who could make an even greater impact with our natural resources and would overhaul bad practices in player management, refuse to bow to board pressure on all matters and could work on a small budget. With Ashley, the club had a larger budget, seemingly would innately understand the need to improve club practice, supposedly would allow a competent manager to do his job without unnecessary interference and, ultimately, probably could have attracted a high quality manager with more established credentials, no "proving" required. January will tell us a lot, then. I hope Ashley gives us a nice wodge of his own money, and I look forward to seeing Allardyce given the opportunity to spend it. All the same, it might become apparent that A&M have ideas higher than Allardyce, and will seek to find someone who matches their's more closely. Looks like your reasoning for wanting Allardyce here was flawed in some places, unless you believe Souness was a yes-man.

Surely that would be ridiculously harsh? How would non-football men like Ashley and Mort judge the performances separate of results? Not really, Dave. The bin-dippers got shot of Hoolia despite him doing better than qualifying for Europe, they won trophies but obviously their Board thought he couldn't get them where they wanted to be. That's the kind of ruthless approach I want to see. It's upto Allardyce. He has the job so it's upto him to make the most of it.

Because Allardyce is renowned for struggling against the big 4? Hate this "big 4" phrase. Why not "big 5" or "big 2?" Anyway, it doesn't matter what we do against the "big 4" if we do shite against all the rest. Well considering one of his points was about how Sam will cope with one of the bigger sides then I think its quite relevant. I doubt his comment needs to be taken so literally, tbh. What he's saying is something like, "how negative will Allardyce be against some of the better teams?" Fact is, if we beat the "big 4" and lose against everyone else we'd be relegated. The point you appeared to be making is that at Bolton, Allardyce had a decent record against the "big 4." Well, my take on that point is that at this stage it's irrelevant what his record was against the "big 4." BTW During his time as Bolton manager we were in the top 4 a couple of times (making us one of the "big 4" at that point in time) and I recall us thrashing them more than once. Regardless of the defeat. I think the defence is much better already than last year although there is still the odd unwanted error. The problems now for me has shifted to the midfield which normally supplies the cohesion and fluency to a side....Dare I say we are still missing a 'fulcrum'. This is also being hampered by some bizarre positioning and team selections. Without stirring a hornets nest, the defence was never the major problem despite the poor personnel. Since Souness decimated Robson's team the problem has been a combination of a lack of decent forward play and midfield play. This prevents us dictating and controlling games, resulting in the defence being put under too much pressure. I said ages ago that you could put the best 4 defenders in the country in our team and we'd still leak goals due to the pressure they'd be under. Obviously better defenders are important and we needed better players at the back, but we also need to control games and we won't do that by improving individuals at the back. Remember that we were a top 4 team under Robson with poor defenders. That's because we had the players ahead of them to threaten the opposition and to control football matches, thus proving it's possible to do well under those circumstances. If you can't dictate and control games you'll get nowhere, which is why the problem has been midfield/strikers for a while now and is why we're average/poor most of the time even with better defenders now.

Because Allardyce is renowned for struggling against the big 4? Hate this "big 4" phrase. Why not "big 5" or "big 2?" Anyway, it doesn't matter what we do against the "big 4" if we do shite against all the rest. Well considering one of his points was about how Sam will cope with one of the bigger sides then I think its quite relevant. I doubt his comment needs to be taken so literally, tbh. What he's saying is something like, "how negative will Allardyce be against some of the better teams?" Fact is, if we beat the "big 4" and lose against everyone else we'd be relegated. The point you appeared to be making is that at Bolton, Allardyce had a decent record against the "big 4." Well, my take on that point is that at this stage it's irrelevant what his record was against the "big 4." BTW During his time as Bolton manager we were in the top 4 a couple of times (making us one of the "big 4" at that point in time) and I recall us thrashing them more than once.

Because Allardyce is renowned for struggling against the big 4? Hate this "big 4" phrase. Why not "big 5" or "big 2?" Anyway, it doesn't matter what we do against the "big 4" if we do shite against all the rest.

It's not just about qualifying for Europe, it's about performances as well. We can qualify for Europe and he may still be binned.

Good post.

To be honest, i have to agree about his attitude, i dont really like the, play for a draw attitude, it just doesnt sit right with me, on the flip side, i can handle these poor performances for the time being because of the dierection the club is going, people like Allardyce should never be compared to Roeder of Souness because never in 3 years did th club look anywhere near like going in the right way. I personnaly can wait till next year to see what SA can do for us because of the vast improvements he's already made. I think people are being hugely unrealistic about our expectations in his first season, its been 5 months and he's done more for the club than Roeder and Souness did in 3, he's turning SJP into a fortress, we're going in the right direction, be patient,see where we end up. I understand your point and I really hate to say this, but what you're saying is the same as many people said about Souness at the time. Signing Parker, Emre, Boumsong, Luque etc, was regarded by many as indicative of the club going in the right direction, the "cancers" had been booted out by Souness and were replaced by these so-called "proper" players, so all he needed was more time. We know what happened and it was predictable, it didn't take hindsight because the warning signs were there. I'm worried by Allardyce's negative attitude and negative approach but I see these things as warning signs, they are just different to those we saw under Souness but they are warning signs nevertheless. That's the bottom line for me and I think it's perfectly justified despite the short time he's been manager.

I think there's a chance they could bin him even if we qualify for Europe, tbh. If they don't think he's going to be able to take the club to the level they want then why not? If it was my money I'd want the man I think is the right man. Allardyce has to show signs he has what it takes.

I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough."

Lads.... It is ironic that those waiting for the thread to move onto the subject of Shepherd are themselves dragging the thread down by their own stupid posts going on and on about Shepherd. There are about 5 people doing this in this thread. It really does come over as school playground mentality from some. You know I speak the truth whether you want to admit it or not. Take a look at yourselves, ffs.

I doubt many rate John Barnes the England player, he was s****. John Barnes was the best English player of his generation (playing for Liverpool).Anyone who thinks otherwise either never saw him play regularly for us or is just basing their opinion on his performances for a s*** England team. mackems.gif

Not in the slightest does it say that. Kennedy played for a better team is what it says in the main. After saying that, you could say Kennedy had more ambition than Nattrass by signing for Liverpool, rather than Nattrass, who left us for the nappy rippers, of course.

For over-rated players just start with Spurs. Regarding Scholes. Top class player. Definitely not over-rated at all.

I disagree, mate. I look at their players and I just don't see any great quality there. That they finished 5th for two seasons in a row is pretty damning on the rest of the PL as far as I'm concerned. In 05/06 they were only 7 points ahead of us and we all know how average to crap we were most of the time.

Keane has had a decent season though, mate. Seems to be the only one that can finish up front for Spurs. I still think he needs too many chances to score a goal, though. I think he'll never be any better than average and is definitely one of quite a few of their players who is over-rated.

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=44196.msg1010923#msg1010923

No, I still think the same as before.

there will never be another Tony Green mate Agreed. One of the best players I've ever seen. Sometimes it pays to be one of the aulder people around here to have seen some of these great players. Away from Newcastle players, I count myself lucky to have stood on the terraces and seen the likes of George Best and Bobby Charlton, for example. Best goalkeeping performance I've seen was one from Shilton when we drew 2-2 with Leicester. I don't know how we scored at all he was that bloody good in that game. I thought it was the Derby game ~1988, when Darren Jackson ended in tears cos we just couldn't score ? And it was 0-0 Well I'm not certain, tbh. I have a recollection of us drawing 2-2 with Leicester when he would have had about 15 had it not been for Shilton. It was the early 70's while I was still at school. Perhaps it wasn't Leciester and perhaps it wasn't even 2-2, but it was definitely Shilton and it was definitely a draw 'cos everyone was gutted how well we played and didn't win. I think. Age is creeping up on me......

Toontastic boys have arrived. Hey ho..... Back to Alan Smith. He's not a bad player. I think he is a victim of his desire to play in every match, which results in him being utilised all over the place by different managers. He needs a good run up front, where *I think* he will do well because *I think* the attributes he does possess make him a leader of the line, type. I'm not saying I'm right and I may well be wrong, but I will not judge him as a midfielder and I will not judge him on goals scored either at this stage. I will judge him on his impact on the general team play and who knows, he may well score a few as well but I don't expect him to be prolific.

there will never be another Tony Green mate Agreed. One of the best players I've ever seen. Sometimes it pays to be one of the aulder people around here to have seen some of these great players. Away from Newcastle players, I count myself lucky to have stood on the terraces and seen the likes of George Best and Bobby Charlton, for example. Best goalkeeping performance I've seen was one from Shilton when we drew 2-2 with Leicester. I don't know how we scored at all he was that bloody good in that game. Tony Green is up there and as you say, there'll never be another one like him even in style of play. A total one-off.

You dance to the tune I play. You're predictable as well. Try and change the subject because I've proven you wrong. No, I won't try to change the subject. Thanks for giving me permission to do so though. I appreciate it.