Howaythelads

Possibly, but we're stuck with the vicious circle. The only way to overcome that barrier is to be successful, manure is a shite place imo but top players still go there. The problem is to reach that level of success we have to attract top players and even that doesn't guarantee anything.

We're not talking about overseas players though are we? I mean we're overpaying Luque, but we're also overpaying a lot of homegrown players too. By the way, look at koven's posting style. He wanted a reaction from people and he got one. Anyway, my only response to him was to dismantle his "£35k average wage is fine" argument, when clearly the majority of our squad should be nowhere near £35k a week. 28 players at an average wage of £35k a week is absolutely mental. We probably are overpaying some homegrown players, I wouldn't doubt it and I didn't say we weren't. I see nothing untoward in the posting style of Koven. It's no different to anybody else who posts an opinion, other than that it's a differing opinion from the mainstream.

Hmmm. Thought I'd say I haven't been distancing myself from anything. I made a post and have then been busy, that's all. Some interesting points have been made. If the money is there to support the backing of a new manager I would be to get rid of the s**** players, change the manager and rebuild going for 4-4-2, it's a proven system that works in England. Ultimately you need good players and even in that original post there are still below standard players in a few areas of the team. All I'm doing there is thinking of making better use of what is already at the club.

Koven makes good sense, imo. Here we have a classic example of one person offering a different view being slated by everybody else simply because he doesn't agree with everybody else. He makes very good point, some of you just don't want to hear an alternative comment though. I think it is true that when looking at overseas player the club has to up the ante to attract these players away from the Capital. I think this is almost certain to be true no matter how much people may not want to believe it.

Improving on a shoestring? I’m pretty certain Roeder isn’t the right man for the job long term. My hopes from Roeder is simply stabilisation to the point we have a team that is an attractive enough proposition for the club to bring in another top manager at a time when sufficient cash is available for this man to attempt to build his team. I know this is going to look like CM manager stuff but I want to get away from the usual threads we see here and open up a new debate about this: If the reality is that the club doesn’t have funds to almost completely rebuild the team how can a small improvement be achieved on a virtual shoestring? The improvement in the team has to be enough to attract a better manager than Roeder by convincing the football world that things are going pretty well on the field, that there is potential for improvement and that financial backing is available. For me, I’m having pretty radical thoughts about this because: 1. I don’t rate Parker and really want us to sell him. 2. I’m strictly a 4-4-2 man and always have been. 3. I think we only have 2 decent strikers in Owen and Martins, so the top priority for me is another striker before defenders. I want us to get rid of Ameobi and Sibierski. 4. I’ve run out of patience with Bramble and would like to replace him too along with some others. I’m now going to move away from all of that. We’re mostly all agreed that there are weaknesses across all areas of the team, many people have said that we need almost half a team, myself included. However, splashing the cash on perhaps 5 players of the quality we want could be very dodgy if Macbeth is to be believed about £1m being lost every month. We want a football club to support and we don’t want to do a “Leeds” but we have to make progress. Bringing in this number of players of good quality would further increase the wages to turnover ratio even if we shift on some of the dross. The reality could be that this is a bad move, the club needs to get an improvement but without spending a great deal and without boosting the wage bill too much. So it’s a balancing act. Are we putting square pegs into round holes by continuing with 4-4-2? Souness signed certain players to play in a narrow midfield so in the short term I think we may need to adjust the style and formation to get the best from certain individuals to achieve that small improvement. The narrow midfield 3 idea imo is heavily dependant upon really good attacking fullbacks, it just won’t work without it. They must get forward providing the width and an attacking threat. So, instead of proposing we buy 5 players, I propose we sign just a quality LB and a quality CB. This means: Ameobi and Sibierski stay for now as 3rd / 4th strikers. Parker stays for now. Moore should be retained if possible. This is where the CM bit comes in, it’s only on paper and may be bollocks. In the end, you need good enough players to make anything work and they just may not be good enough. The team for me could be like this: Given Solano, Moore, New CB, New LB Parker, Butt Emre Dyer, Martins, Owen The way I’d see this playing out would be both Butt and Parker protecting the back 4, covering the fullbacks who I would encourage to bomb on whenever possible. This to the extent I would discourage Butt/Parker both crossing the halfway line at the same time in general play. I’d expect rotation and movement from Dyer, Owen and Martins. The first two I think would be ok with that but Martins would have a learning curve. The problems I see are these: 1. Emre likes to drop deep and collect the ball from the CB’s. He’d have to play 10 yards further up the field most of the time and receive the ball further up, but he is dangerous there. 2. The poor passing ability of Parker. However, we know Solano can pass, I’d expect the new LB and CB to be able to pass and so can Butt despite what people say, so it may still work. To finish off, if the club has funds I’d prefer to get shot of a number of players and stick with 4-4-2, but that opens up the question of whether or not Roeder should be binned in the summer. It could be hard to attract a top manager given the shambolic displays we’ve seen this season and impossible if the club doesn’t have enough money to spend. What I’ve done here is look at the players we currently have, try to fit them into roles I think suit them best and then look at where the limitations are suggesting new players for just those positions. LB and CB. If we stick with 4-4-2 I think we do need half a team to be effective. I hope this makes sense even to those who disagree.

Well I don't want to harp mate and the posts have probably gone unless you can dig them out. I actually mocked the idea of Roeder being appointed as caretaker and was slagged for it on the basis he has a great track record of working with young players. He always struck me at WHam as a wet fart at best. I don't think he's the right man but I do think that we couldn't go for a top manager with a winning track record like previous appointments because such a manager would have expected funds to rebuild that the club doesn't have right now. I think Roeder is doing a "fair" job of stabilisation and that is the maximum he's able to do. I'm actually worried for next season despite that, I think we could be in for a real scrap if we don't bring in some players and that's the problem, because I don't think they have the money. If he doesn't get the club to the point where we're dictating some matches and winning them (which we don't seem to have done for ages other than the odd period of a game), get us to the point where the club is able to attract a good manager when the money is available again then that will be failure for me. Do you think Roeder should be given money (if there is any) to spend in the summer then? I'm not so sure. In my opinion - and this is entirely dependant on there being funds to entice a better manager - we should thank him for saving us exploding and sliding into relegation and move on. He's done a decent job as you say, but i'm completely unconvinced that he can take us further than lower/mid-table on a regular basis. I just think it's beyond him as a manager despite his best efforts. If the money's not there though we're pretty much snookered for now. Your post on Shepherd/failure is here btw, in case you thought I was being arsey: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=21421.msg398634#msg398634 I know exactly what I said about Shepherd/failure, I used to have it in my sig until I changed to gemmill hilariously abusing other members and getting away with it. You said it in your post, if there is enough money to attract a better manager I think I'd go for it. If we don't I think we're in for a battle next season to stay up if things don't change. Some of this depends on the fitness of Owen, of course. There's a definite limit (and it's not very high) for what can be achieved with what was left by Souness, but I think we could be doing slightly better with a better manager than we are now and next season that could make the difference. I've been having some radical thoughts lately about how the club could possibly improve slightly without breaking the bank and therefore perhaps getting into a position to attract that new and better quality manager. I may post it sometime when I'm going to be away for awhile.

Well I don't want to harp mate and the posts have probably gone unless you can dig them out. I actually mocked the idea of Roeder being appointed as caretaker and was slagged for it on the basis he has a great track record of working with young players. He always struck me at WHam as a wet fart at best. I don't think he's the right man but I do think that we couldn't go for a top manager with a winning track record like previous appointments because such a manager would have expected funds to rebuild that the club doesn't have right now. I think Roeder is doing a "fair" job of stabilisation and that is the maximum he's able to do. I'm actually worried for next season despite that, I think we could be in for a real scrap if we don't bring in some players and that's the problem, because I don't think they have the money. If he doesn't get the club to the point where we're dictating some matches and winning them (which we don't seem to have done for ages other than the odd period of a game), get us to the point where the club is able to attract a good manager when the money is available again then that will be failure for me.

Wrong again. On both counts. The club got what it could afford, after the bankrolling of Souness to the tune of nearly £50m and the years of ambition shown for well over a decade now, the club having gone through a massive outlay on players by backing successive managers. Previous managers with factually indisputable winning track records have been appointed and backed, showing huge ambition by the board. But they made a mistake with Souness and the money was wasted. The club now needs to stablislise before they are able to have another crack at it and that's the bottom line. The current board has the ambition to try to do that. Bringing in a top class manager with a huge winning track record would have seen someone demanding massive transfer funds to rebuild the team that is more than likely just not there. Learn to live with reality.

Trying to fit in with the TT crowd again, mate? Anything with any depth to it and more than a couple of sentences and your mind goes into a spin? (Note the smiley thing acting as a clue) *Trolling* You do know about the new rule, right? No.

But that's like not crossing the road because you might get run down, despite the chance of riches on the other side. It's playing it ridiculously 'safe'. It would be a gamble, nobody is under the illusion it would magically fix things overnight. That is lunacy. You just seem completely unable to see the possible benefits, preferring to be happy that we're better than we were 20, 30 years ago. That's the first post along those lines I've seen from a member of the "board out" brigade, if you pardon the expression, like. BTW being worried that replacing the board might bring about a worse situation doesn't mean I think the current board has made no mistakes, that comment or similar has been rolled out before and is as big a myth as gemmill getting the odd shag. I'm certainly not happy at how things have gone since Souness even though we're still better off than we were 20 or 30 years ago. I doubt anyone is.

The board has much more ambition than just surpassing McKeag, that's why they've supported successive managers in the transfer market with millions and millions of quid. It's the managers who didn't use that to build a team good enough to bring success and it's the players who in a number of separate matches when they could have won a trophy failed to perform on the day. This is obvious like.

I blatantly meant it too. mackems.gif

Yes, I get that feeliing too from a small group of members.

This is what ruins threads. Nobody throws in a post praising how well the board has done in a thread like this, yet here we see a classic example of a post that is likely to start it all off again. I will say again. There is no guarantee that a takeover will result in..... 1. Selection and appointment of the RIGHT MAN as manager. 2. Adequate backing in the transfer market of the RIGHT MAN by the new owners. If there was a guarantee I'll be all for it, but there isn't. Both 1 and 2 are required to give any club a chance plus some luck along the way.

Trying to fit in with the TT crowd again, mate? Anything with any depth to it and more than a couple of sentences and your mind goes into a spin? (Note the smiley thing acting as a clue)

Doubt we'll see them posting here, but in another thread: Greg - "Learn to read" TT - "Read the f****** question. End of message. " Dave - "Because the author wanted it that way?" The author of the original post in this thread said, "lifting a trophy of any merit". No doubt you'll claim you were being sarcastic.

We need better players in all areas of the team, as most have known for ages. The question is what is the priority taking into account balance of the squad etc. Much will depend on the fitness of Owen, assumng he stays. If he does stay fit and stays at the club we have 2 decent strikers, although Martins needs to learn how not to be such a one man band. We will still need to sign a good quality backup striker for those 2 and will have to keep Ameobi as 4th choice for now. Then we need to move to the defence. I'm happy enough with Solano at RB for now. If Bernard doesn't make it back to his previous levels we then need a LB followed by a decent CB to partner Bramble until Bramble can also be released. Then we move to the midfield. I'm happy with 2 from Butt, Dyer/Emre for now but we need to get rid of Parker and bring in a quality replacement because Dyer isn't ideal there anyway. Therefore, my summary is this: 3rd Striker LB CB CM CB I don't think the money will be there to do everything, so it's got to be staged. I know those obsessed with the defence won't agree with a 3rd striker as the top priority, but the fact is last summer the same people were saying defence was the priority so just ask yourself where we'd be now without Sibierski and especially without Martins. Scoring goals is the most difficult thing to do in football, if you don't score goals you are relegated.

Yes. I do. The parade through the City afterward was never to be forgotten. Thanks for asking.

Eh? I'm seriously puzzled by why I'm included in this f****** list. I've done nowt in recent times other than post my view on the football, despite being constantly hassled by the usual morons because they don't agree with me. I assume you're listing people you believe spoil threads. Well if you're going to name names fella, where the f*** is that obnoxious chimp guy and a whole host of others? And don't quote the "et al" s**** either. There are some people on here who never post a f****** thing that is football related, choosing instead to post personal s**** all over the show. There's more than one doing it and you know the people I mean. I haven't thrown a thread off track for ages, like there are a few members I haven't responded to in ages despite their best efforts. Tickled me anyway. And no, I don't mean my slightly embarassing first attempt at using those quotes, for those of you who noticed. Do you understand the difference between "recent times" and "present time?"

More likely his rent boy, tbh. One page after admonishing someone for abuse. Yet another example of HTL's hypocrisy. No doubt you'll deny it though. Thick as f****** pigshit, soldier boy. mackems.gif It seems you haven't a clue what you're talking about. As usual. More likely his rent boy, tbh. Thick as mince. Go on, tell me it was just BANTER. Thick as mince now? I thought I was a thick soldier, according to you. Despite never having been a soldier, like. Thick as mince soldier then. "You're in the army now. Wooooooooaaah, you're in the army. Now." You can't read, by the looks of things.

Jumping on the bandwagon, mate. It was a forlorn hope to expect a bit better from you, even though I'm sure that in reality you're not as immature as your chums despite how you try to feel accepted by them on the forum. Oh dear. So I made a teensy wee joke at the expense of your oppo, and now I'm lumped in with the bad boys. What a narrow little world you inhabit sometimes. Just a joke FFS! I know it was a joke. You used one of gemma's little smiley things that means it's a joke. Just like I did. mackems.gif

Giving you a stiffy is it? No doubt you're off round his house right now, eh.....

More likely his rent boy, tbh. One page after admonishing someone for abuse. Yet another example of HTL's hypocrisy. No doubt you'll deny it though. Thick as f****** pigshit, soldier boy. mackems.gif It seems you haven't a clue what you're talking about. As usual. More likely his rent boy, tbh. Thick as mince. Go on, tell me it was just BANTER. Thick as mince now? I thought I was a thick soldier, according to you. Despite never having been a soldier, like.

Jumping on the bandwagon, mate. It was a forlorn hope to expect a bit better from you, even though I'm sure that in reality you're not as immature as your chums despite how you try to feel accepted by them on the forum.