ohmelads

I agree. The new board may have other ideas though. He got the job before they came in, so he wasn't their appointment.

In Sevilla's first game without Ramos yesterday they dominated Valencia 3-0 at home, Valencia barely created a chance apparently. Having seen the kind of football Sevilla have been playing for a couple of years now, it's a real shame that Spurs have landed Ramos and not us. It's another opportunity missed IMO, he'd have been a good match for us. Spurs won't solve their problems overnight, but I don't think there's that much wrong with them and in Ramos I think they've found the right man. I hope I'm wrong of course.

I think there are many different ways to play successful football and to finish top 4, I made this point in another thread that for every Everton or Osasuna there is a Villarreal, Sevilla or Newcastle (under Robson) who punch above their weight and get top 4 by playing more open, attacking football. We certainly can do it the Allardyce way, he got reasonably close with Bolton. I think there is a real fear factor when it comes to the top 4, because people think we are nowhere near the quality of teams like Liverpool so we can't hope to compete. But we are, or should be, better than most of the teams in the league, and beating those teams weaker than us home and away will put us right up close to teams like Liverpool, even if they destroy us at Anfield. This is why losing to Reading and Derby hurts a lot more than losing to Man Utd or Liverpool, because you know you have missed a big opportunity.

Been saying this for a while. It's far too early for the manager or players to be congratulating themselves. On paper things look good but if you don't read them in context, you're setting yourself up for a fall. I think it's been a distinctly average start to the season, given the opposition we've played. Good wins against Tottenham and Everton have been cancelled out by poor defeats to Reading and Derby. We need to raise our game, hopefully in time the players will gel together and that will come. Looking at the fixture list, January doesn't look good. From late December to late January we face away games at Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal, with a home game against Man City thrown in for good measure. I think some people take away games against teams like Reading and even Man City for granted, these games are an opportunity to go for the points and when we miss out, we put ourselves under pressure in these games. The key to getting into Europe will probably be how we play against the poorer teams, not the top teams. When Everton finished 4th they were nothing special, they just kept winning their 'easier' fixtures. You don't actually have to be better than a top 4 side to pip them to 4th, you just have to be more consistent at picking up the 'easier' points.

I hate to say it but he does look a handful. Could be a purple patch, mind.

If you signed Crouch it'd be a decent signing, if you signed him to be a target man and to win flick ons then it'll be a waste of £10-12m. It's been said before, but for a man of his height he is amazingly bad in the air - seriously, you'd be surprised at the sheer number of fouls he gives away for climbing. Owen is actually a better header of the ball. If, however, you played the ball along the ground then he would be a good signing - throw in an extra £6m and you can have Riises hoofs up the pitch as well. He does give away an incredible number of fouls I agree, and I've never liked him as a player, he's always come across as quite arrogant despite his lack of skill. I know he has a "good touch for a big lad" and all that, but having him on the pitch does encourage longer balls. I noticed in Liverpool that a lot of fans call for him to be brought on when they're chasing a game or trying to nick a winner late on, and that's because he does bring a different dimension to any game and will always put himself about and ruffle a few feathers. But not many people would want him starting week in, week out. He's just not good enough on a consistent basis. At times he can look good in the Liverpool side, where he starts now and again and comes off the bench, but if he came here he would be under more pressure, he'd be expected to start every week and would be expected to score or create goals on a regular basis. The Liverpool team has more quality, the service to the forwards is better and the midfielders also chip in with goals, but up here the spotlight would be on him more because he'd be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Having thought about it, I'm not sure it'd be a good move for him or for us. It'd be a gamble, the problem is that there are not many alternatives if you are looking for that type of player with Premiership experience.

I have often heard this argument about the speed or size of American Footballers, but it's missing the point. Do people think rugby players just jog around? Of course the different nature of the tackling is more dangerous and therefore the padding is absolutely necessary, but it is the mentality of rugby which sets it apart from other sports, it is a non-stop war of attrition (80 constant minutes) where bravery is everything and blood is always spilled (which is why you have what's called 'blood substitutions'). Violence and intimidation is part and parcel of it, and padding and helmets would take too much away from the game. It is a very different sport to American Football which, for all its dangerous head on collisions, seems a far more sanitised sport. It is more organised, there are referees everywhere, there is more communication, more stoppages and everything is analysed. It is true that a lot of rugby players consider American Football a girl's game because of the padding, but I don't think many people mean these comments seriously, it's just an easy windup which is bound to get a reaction. It is the constant stoppages that put people off American Football, I find myself sitting around waiting for something to happen. That's one of the reasons it won't ever take off over here IMO. The Haka, Sipi Tau etc are a perfect example of the spirit rugby is played in, only a sport such as rugby could keep these traditions alive and famous. Any Americans who aren't sure what I'm talking about should do a youtube search for "New Zealand Haka VS Tonga Sipi Tau". Speed and size are irrelevant if you're not prepared to go up face to face with these guys, you have to expect violence. I challenge anybody to stand in front of the Haka and then say "knock his head off".

If we're seen to be challenging for Europe until the end of the season, I don't suppose they'll be thinking of a change. It's all about whether or not we appear to be heading in the right direction. As others have said, Ashley didn't appoint Allardyce. How much he backs him in January could give us a clue. He's got good value for his money so far (bar the Smith signing). But that was the easier side of things, he's generally padded out the squad with decent, cheap players from what I can see. The bigger challenge will be getting top players to come to an unsuccessful club in a relatively small city, or to buy himself the time to develop such players. My gut feeling is he'll be allowed this season to make his mark on things, and next season there will be a lot more scrutiny.

He would be perfect for Big Sam's style of play, which is the way we're probably headed, like it or lump it. He will be in the game a lot more than players like Owen are at the moment, and his flick-ons and hold up play will help bring those sorts of players into the game. I'm not a fan of his or that type of football, but as we're probably going down that route then he could be the answer.

Rebel yell, I appreciate you're more qualified than me to compare the sports because you live over there, but I find your comments about rugby pretty curious. Earlier this year an Australian rugby player found a tooth embedded in his head. Your example of people talking the talk doesn't really compare, in rugby you don't have the referee constantly stopping the game, you have to expect things like eye gauging, biting, punching, stamping and all the rest of it which will not be spotted by the one and only referee, and the game will probably not be stopped either. In the scrum or in a ruck you have to expect it. Losing teeth, cauliflower ears and a face bent out of shape is part of the game, not many prop forwards keep their looks! People often talk about the tackles, but in rugby that's just one part of it. American Football is undoubtedly a 'tough' game, but to compare it to rugby is going a bit far. I watched the NFL game today for a bit of craic, and some of those players would be eaten alive on the rugby field, and I certainly doubt they would be coming out with those macho comments when they are in the middle of a scrum. Anybody who goes around the rugby field talking like that will quickly learn the hard way and will probably get targetted. I have heard those sorts of things in football (soccer), "break his legs" etc, but then nobody claims this is a tough game. Anyway, not meaning to take this thread off on a big tangent, but I found the comparison a strange one.

Agree with everything there. I do think we will get better but he needs to accept that he isn't a master tactician and should stop messing about with his formation and trying to be smart. The other week he had N'Zogbia on the right wing, now he's dropping him for a central midfielder, it is this trying to be clever which often backfires on managers who let the praise go to their head. Is it so difficult to play players in their correct positions and use a tried and tested formation? Robson made some mistakes but he never changed his formation, the players knew his system inside out, it was up to the other team to try and stop us. Pulling stunts like he did yesterday have cost us important points, we can't be taking these games for granted. I remember a few times Robson tried to change his formation, he wanted to go 3 at the back for about a 6 month period and thought Aaron Hughes was the key to making it work. You're right he did. Robson was generally very consistent with his tactics though. He made some mistakes (Bowyer right wing), but when everyone was fit he knew his best team and always stuck with it. I would hope Allardyce will find a system that works and stick with it. Playing without wingers should never be considered though,, espescially when you have two of them fit on the bench.

Agree with everything there. I do think we will get better but he needs to accept that he isn't a master tactician and should stop messing about with his formation and trying to be smart. The other week he had N'Zogbia on the right wing, now he's dropping him for a central midfielder, it is this trying to be clever which often backfires on managers who let the praise go to their head. Is it so difficult to play players in their correct positions and use a tried and tested formation? Robson made some mistakes but he never changed his formation, the players knew his system inside out, it was up to the other team to try and stop us. Pulling stunts like he did yesterday have cost us important points, we can't be taking these games for granted.

It's bit early to be saying he wont change his small club mentality. And yes we HAVE to go for the win against the Mackems. Parky is right. It's the attitude that we have a problem with. We should only go to the top 4 LOOKING for a draw. Perhaps if we give it a go and still only get a draw then there wouldn't be a problem. I agree. The players need to be going to places like Reading and Derby confident and positive, and putting fear into them. Reading fans must have looked at our team selection before the game and grinned. 4 central midfielders just says "please don't hurt us", and not surprisingly that's how we played. Can you imagine teams better than us, such as Man Utd or Arsenal, coming to SJP and lining up like that? We'd be pretty happy if they did, and we'd certainly fancy our chances.

I really want Sam to succeed here but his inability or unwillingness to change his "small club" mentality may prove decisive. He needs to change his ways but can he? To go and play for a draw at Reading is a disgrace to the supporters, espescially those who forked out their hard-earned and made the trip down the country and back. It's unacceptable. The 2-1 scoreline flattered us. For a team to be consistently outplayed all over the park by inferior players does not bode well for any manager. He may fancy himself as a tough guy, but in reality he has bottled it away from home every time, and when you do that you get what you deserve - nothing. If he plays for the draw against sunderland we will lose, and he will lose a massive amount of respect from the fans. sunderland will play for the win and we must do the same. The derby is all about regional pride and a rivalry that goes back centuries. Ruud Gullit tried to be clever by dropping Shearer and Ferguson - we lost to the mackems and 3 days later he was out of a job. I hope Allardyce is aware of what this game means to the supporters, a gutless team selection and tactics will not go down well at all.

I was very happy when we signed Geremi but he is in a really poor run of form at the moment and it's not benefitting the team. The team must come first.

When we're playing a side inferior in terms of football quality to ourselves (and whatever anyone says, we have more quality in our side than they do), surely it makes sense to encourage an open game? We seem to be going to places like Reading and Derby and thinking "right, roll your sleeves up lads, if they want a battle they can have one". We're playing right into their hands, espescially when we're hacking balls forward to the two smallest players on the pitch. Teams at home are always under pressure from their own fans to get forward, this represents an opportunity for a team with quick movement and skillful players to counter attack. Wingers are essential to a good away performance, because they will lead the breakaway, they will put fear into the opposition. Today I got the feeling this game was lost before it had begun, when I heard we were playing without wingers. All of our football was played in front of the Reading back four, we never got in behind them. Defending stuff in front of you is easy.

Teams have been scoring past Reading for fun, even Bolton and Sunderland. They have conceded 15 goals in their previous 4 games, surely here was an opportunity to let Milner and N'Zogbia torment their full backs and give Martins and Owen some service? Instead we line up with 4 central midfielders, no wingers. If anybody needed brought back down to earth it was Sam Allardyce, who looked pretty sheepish in the second half when he belatedly brought on N'Zogbia and Milner to try and rescue the game. Smith was accommodated too, Mike Ashley will be happy to know. Sam needs to stop trying to be clever. He clearly fancies the idea of us grinding out 'professional' 1-0 wins away from home, and settling for the bore draw if need be, but the other team often has other ideas.

It's a disgrace to the travelling fans that we line up with such a negative team and keep playing for the point. Again, we got what we deserved because we played for the point and they played for three.

Where are Zog and Milner?

Can't be a 4-3-3, none of those lot would enjoy that wide forward position and Viduka isn't fit to play the lone front man. Geremi and Emre on the flanks in a 4-4-2? Seems very negative, no width or pace in that midfield to stretch them, square pegs in round holes as well. I'm curious to see the rest of the lineup, as Shak says I hope Sam knows what he's doing.

It doesn't bode well that he has moved on from every club he's been at pretty sharpish, and he's done it to Sevilla after getting them into the Champions League and lifting 3 major trophies in two years (plus two super cups). Anyone would have thought he'd found his home there, but he's moved on again. I think some people are being very harsh on his achievements before going to Sevilla though. He got Rayo Vallecano, a tiny club from the slums of southern Madrid, into the First Division and then into to the UEFA Cup and a respectable 9th in the league. He also got Logroñes promoted to the First Division and got Betis to 6th place and a UEFA Cup finish. His CV before Sevilla is pretty good if not spectacular. The big questions will be about how he adapts to the Premier League, and whether he sticks around.

If ever an avatar intermingled nicely with a post, this is that instance. Why thank you kind sir. Just wish more people would open their eyes and accept things change. It's 2007 and clubs aren't run the way they were 30 years ago. Football is a worldwide sport and the Premier League is the most popular going. Introducing it to a whole new audience in America is an opportunity to be embraced, not rebuffed. Fucks sake. I'd be amazed if anybody in this thread cannot see "the bigger picture", that this would be done for financial reasons. People are objecting to it because they see this as overstepping the line. Football has gone through huge changes, many of which were necessary, but we're talking about playing competitive games in front of tens of thousands of indifferent fans, all in the name of corporate greed. It would be naive to think that this would be done for the benefit of American people or the good of the sport. Eggert Magnusson couldn't care less about that. Once you start exporting competitive games to neutral venues in front of thousands of indifferent fans, the sport becomes a farce, the integrity of the game and the influence of the fans suffers as a result. That in my opinion is the bigger picture.

In recent years, Greece won Euro 2004, Liverpool won the Champions League, Valencia won La Liga, Chelsea won the Premier League and Italy won the world cup all with a defensive mindset. There has certainly been a trend towards this kind of coaching and tactics in recent years. The increasing amount of money in the game has raised the stakes and as a result many have set their teams up more cautiously. However, we have to remember that since the Premier League began it has been won almost exclusively by very attacking teams, while Brazil have won more world cups than anybody by playing a very open game. People look at the success of Greece, they see how Everton and Osasuna qualified for the Champions League, and they figure that a defensive set-up, often with only 1 up front, is the safer approach. But for every Everton or Osasuna, there is a Newcastle (under Robson), a Villarreal or a Sevilla who do it by playing attacking, open football. I don't think the Allardyce/Benitez/Mourinho football offers any more security than the Wenger/Ferguson football. If anything, history suggests otherwise.

It's worse if you play with/against them, as I have been unfortunate enough to do. I remember one guy saying "dude, go for the one-timer". I guess he was trying to say hit it first time. There were plenty other examples but I can't think of them right now. It does make you cringe hearing them talk about it, I guess they can't help it but I think a lot of them (certainly the ones I met and have lived with) were a lost cause, they've been brought up on sports like Baseball and American Football and the culture of those sports is totally different. yeah, I went to Mexico, and the English (and Irish) had a match against the Mexicans on the beach. However the Americans (and a few Canadians) heckled us into letting them play. As for your "one-timer" example, I had one shout to me to play a "low ball", which I interpreted as a straight-forward, side-footed pass along the ground. To this day I have no idea what he meant. Sounds like you need to tighten up your game dude, your offense sucks.