madras

The bit in bold, liar. What I have said is that when our crowds were low they were still some of the best in the Country. 2nd request. As insisting people give adult responses to perfectly reasonable questions seems to be the order of the day. Hope you aren't avoiding this now .... "so how come we spent years in the 2nd division, selling our best players, and getting absolutely nowhere ?" i know it wasn't addressed to me but my answer is that we had a board that was too conservative (not politically though it probably was). then i'd ask "so how come we went from 3rd in the prem and getting to the second group stage of the champs lge in a good financial position to build to 13th in the prem,with masses of debt ?" because they backed their appointment ? And he made a mess of it. Not your choice, but theirs Totally different to a board NOT backing their choice of manager, and don't confuse the two. Which of these 2 approaches are now going to lead to us "doing a Leeds" and going down ? The answer is, exactly the same approach that did us in for decades previously. Thanks for answering, because I'll be surprised if mick does. BTW, as you keep wanting to talk about poor managerial appointments, how does today grab you ? i see ,so the buck stops at the manager, not those who appoint them ? you think everybody appoints winning managers all the time ? What do you think about today ? not everybody appoints winning managers all the time. not everybody from a good position appoints souness then roeder then allardyce. as for todays appointment....very short term. as i've already ststed elsewhere on here,roght now getting first team personnel fit is more important than getting in a temp manager,regardless of who it is.

It was also s*** when we had players trying to pick the manager and they won, look what happened. We also had the likes of Barrowclough, Nulty, Canell and Natrass demanding more money or they would go on strike. Canell ? Natrass ? The "likes of Nattrass" was one of the best defenders and the best right back I have ever seen play for this club. And - the players had the right to go on strike just like anybody else. If anything it should tell you how strongly they felt about the situation ie losing Gordon Lee, who went to Everton, because the board didn't have the ambition that he had. Are you one of those who thinks selling MacDonald was completely responsible for our relegation despite the players supporting the manager who decided to let him go ? Oh, it was nothing to do with money. agree with quite a bit of that expect you fail to point out they forced richard dinniss on us which was an absolute disaster. the players may have had a point but their solution was a f***ing disaster yes they did. But you have to be honest, and say that, at the time, they were doing quite well and in the short term Dinnis re-united the dressing room, restored stability and is the reason why we got through the season and kept hold of the european place. Eerily, and unhappily, its a similar suggestion to the situation now that restoring Keegan would do, in the short and immediate term anyway. Dinnis was indeed out of his depth when all the dust settled. the players were buoyed in the short term by the confidence of not doing too bad at the time. the appointment of roeder permanently is a closer example.

The bit in bold, liar. What I have said is that when our crowds were low they were still some of the best in the Country. 2nd request. As insisting people give adult responses to perfectly reasonable questions seems to be the order of the day. Hope you aren't avoiding this now .... "so how come we spent years in the 2nd division, selling our best players, and getting absolutely nowhere ?" i know it wasn't addressed to me but my answer is that we had a board that was too conservative (not politically though it probably was). then i'd ask "so how come we went from 3rd in the prem and getting to the second group stage of the champs lge in a good financial position to build to 13th in the prem,with masses of debt ?" because they backed their appointment ? And he made a mess of it. Not your choice, but theirs Totally different to a board NOT backing their choice of manager, and don't confuse the two. Which of these 2 approaches are now going to lead to us "doing a Leeds" and going down ? The answer is, exactly the same approach that did us in for decades previously. Thanks for answering, because I'll be surprised if mick does. BTW, as you keep wanting to talk about poor managerial appointments, how does today grab you ? i see ,so the buck stops at the manager, not those who appoint them ?

It was also s*** when we had players trying to pick the manager and they won, look what happened. We also had the likes of Barrowclough, Nulty, Canell and Natrass demanding more money or they would go on strike. Canell ? Natrass ? The "likes of Nattrass" was one of the best defenders and the best right back I have ever seen play for this club. And - the players had the right to go on strike just like anybody else. If anything it should tell you how strongly they felt about the situation ie losing Gordon Lee, who went to Everton, because the board didn't have the ambition that he had. Are you one of those who thinks selling MacDonald was completely responsible for our relegation despite the players supporting the manager who decided to let him go ? Oh, it was nothing to do with money. agree with quite a bit of that expect you fail to point out they forced richard dinniss on us which was an absolute disaster. the players may have had a point but their solution was a fucking disaster

can't understand why, if they wanted venables,they didn't give him a contract to the end of the season. let the new owers sort it out and if they want to pay him off it's only 3/4s a seasons worth of pay off which shouldn't be that much.

Worst time for me. If this was happening after January things might be different, we still have plenty of time to turn the season completely around, in that respect there is still hope. However this is without a doubt the most humiliated I feel for being a Newcastle fan. In a way I will also feel a bit insulted if Keegan and Shearer do get appointed, its like a patronising pat on the head to appease the masses. how do you get humiliated ? General torrents of abuse by anyone I know that isnt a Newcastle fan, be it at work, out of work, via email etc.. The upside is I think everyone is actually getting bored with the mock jokes, emails and jibes seeing as it is just something of a norm now. Its probably not a problem living in Newcastle but its a shitter when your outside! I dont have to put up with the general negativity all around though. just ask them if they'd still support their club through anything ? at work all the mackems who actually go to the games will talk sensibly about our position as i have done with their scrapes. the part time mackems attempt to take the piss to which i tell them i've been to their ground more than they have. even the proper mackems tell them to piss off and are embarrassed by them.

The bit in bold, liar. What I have said is that when our crowds were low they were still some of the best in the Country. 2nd request. As insisting people give adult responses to perfectly reasonable questions seems to be the order of the day. Hope you aren't avoiding this now .... "so how come we spent years in the 2nd division, selling our best players, and getting absolutely nowhere ?" i know it wasn't addressed to me but my answer is that we had a board that was too conservative (not politically though it probably was). then i'd ask "so how come we went from 3rd in the prem and getting to the second group stage of the champs lge in a good financial position to build to 13th in the prem,with masses of debt ?"

Leicester was a hell hole and we always ended up having to fight our way to the car/van/mini bus. We parked near the Leicester Tigers ground the season we avoided relegation and ended up going to the hospital to pick one lad up who had been beaten senseless. we'd hired a bus. told everyone we saw that we were going to chesterfield after to throw them off the scent that we were actually going to nottingham. it appears everyone was doing the same thing as nottigham was awash with geordies that night, a riot ensued that i wasn't party to but i still ended up in the cells and got home 11pm on the sunday.

that was partly offset by it being one of the best/funniest seasons i've ever had for going to away games. ipswich,watford,leicester being highlights and bournemouth in the cup hitting legendary status. that season was only equalled byt he following promotion season. You're not Billy Furious, are you? no. i did have a mate who suspected i was for a year or two mind.

that was partly offset by it being one of the best/funniest seasons i've ever had for going to away games. ipswich,watford,leicester being highlights and bournemouth in the cup hitting legendary status. that season was only equalled byt he following promotion season. Aye I remember the Leicester game, eyes being put out and Leicester not being punished at all. best actual game i've been to for the tension and feeling. leicester could have went up that day and came for a party.

Worst time for me. If this was happening after January things might be different, we still have plenty of time to turn the season completely around, in that respect there is still hope. However this is without a doubt the most humiliated I feel for being a Newcastle fan. In a way I will also feel a bit insulted if Keegan and Shearer do get appointed, its like a patronising pat on the head to appease the masses. how do you get humiliated ?

that was partly offset by it being one of the best/funniest seasons i've ever had for going to away games. ipswich,watford,leicester being highlights and bournemouth in the cup hitting legendary status. that season was only equalled byt he following promotion season.

It was also s*** when we had players trying to pick the manager and they won, look what happened. We also had the likes of Barrowclough, Nulty, Canell and Natrass demanding more money or they would go on strike. that was the player power i mentioned.

i hope thats "six to eight games" and wasn't a misheard "sixty eight games"

player power and the subsequent relegation was the worst i can remember and as i was young it hit me harder. i honestly think we have quality enough to keep away from trouble if we don't spend most of the season with 4 or 5 first teamers out injured every week.

right now i think the injuries to key personnel is more important than who takes over as manager in the short term.

i'd take him back but i've never trusted him. too much of a media manipulator.

Just a reminder for those incapable of following complex arguments what the highly experienced and qualified accountant who reviewed the accounts thinks about this question. Given SP60'sH's comments (mate you really need a new name!), dont think anyone has been floored at all in this debate. I think his "professional" opinion is very clear, backs what i thought at the time and does not support the doomsday merchants. With all due respect, SP60sH did say that he would have to look into the cash flow issue which is a critical part of the equation. I'm not sure how the wage bill is paid: weekly, bi weekly, monthly? Staff payroll, maintenance costs and fixed expenses all have to be met on a consistent basis. That the club was running with a net liability doesn't appear to be in debate. Any firm can do that and survive, obviously. What is in question, at least for me, (and strictly out of curiousity's sake as I have no agenda.), is if the club had the necessary cash flow to meet it's current and longer term obligations. Usually you don't look for help or look to sell until you see that you don't have the cash flow to meet your obligations. i think most didn't think it was imminent but it was heasding that way.

drama queen

not until it was confirmed

......we'll say we have beye,enrique,gutierrez to come back.

i quite agree but it is also true that when they left, they left it in a much worse position than 3 or 4 years previous.

you're quite wrong. I know they weren't perfect, but I think people like you, ought to understand how much better the club was in comparison to when they came, and I don't think you appreciated the years they ran the club, even when people tried to tell you. Its only a few years since cretins booed the team for finishing 5th in the league. And many, many people scorned at qualifying for europe via the intertoto. Thats the sort of raised expectations that have been taken for granted, and is something you should think about, and is also their legacy or part of it. You said yesterday that I was patronising. How else can I explain it ?? What I do take issue with though, is people who supported the club, or say they did, that don't appreciate how much better the club is, and I'm sorry but the only conclusion I can come to, is that they are lying when they claim this. Not one person I know, that actually is a long term supporter, denies that the club isn't miles better than they were when the Halls and Shepherd took over. whilst people like me don't think people like you understand that from a position of finishing 3rd,2nd round of champs lge (yes thanks fred and doug for all you done in getting us there) and the chance to build on it we turned into a snowball running downhill and they weren't going to turn it round.

thats nailed it. in others, a good board that did a lot for the club, easily the best and most progressive we have had in at least 50 years, and replacing them with better will be quite a difficult task ? I have never argued that Shepherd was a failure; I remember black and white telly too. All I say is that it could have turned out so much better after he went but that he had to go because he was no longer taking us forward. His legacy is strength is some areas but he left us vulnerable in others; hence the current situation. I wouldn't argue with what you say, I see it how I have said it too. My comments are aimed at madras in this instance, but a few others eg mick and macbeth can agree if they like, as its pretty undisputable. But I bet that they won't admit it. Thats what happens though when your "opinions" are personality-based and not factually based. There's no doubt that appointing Souness was the start of their fall from grace [not the "dogs" business which was absurdly and childishly clung onto by those of a sensitive nature, or those who have a fondness for cliches or jumping on bandwagons rather than have their own opinion although I bet they were all happy to go to 2 FA Cup Finals and enjoy the Champions League games] but that isn't to say they would not have appointed a good manager and been successful again. So long as you understand the basics, there is always a chance of that. Better to have someone who understands the game than someone who doesn't, like Ashley [and hopefully his successor will understand the game]. To me, their legacy is pretty straightforward. They gave me as a supporter the best decade and a half supporting the club than anybody else has ever done by miles, and left it a million miles better than when they walked through the door. i'm not going to disagree with much of that but i'll add that in the end they were going downhill with little sign of turning it round. (lehman bros is a good analogy. their board was a good board when things were going well but they have to accept that in the end it was them who brought the whole thing down)

they raised expectation then lowered them. you know your history NE5. you know that roeders 7th placed team was poor and was only going to go the way that it did. downwards fast. very similar to McFauls 8th placed teram of 85-86. a poor team that had a decent run towards the end of the season but rvryone knew the season after would be closer to relegartion thean qualifying for europe. you're quite wrong. I know they weren't perfect, but I think people like you, ought to understand how much better the club was in comparison to when they came, and I don't think you appreciated the years they ran the club, even when people tried to tell you. Its only a few years since cretins booed the team for finishing 5th in the league. And many, many people scorned at qualifying for europe via the intertoto. Thats the sort of raised expectations that have been taken for granted, and is something you should think about, and is also their legacy or part of it. You said yesterday that I was patronising. How else can I explain it ?? What I do take issue with though, is people who supported the club, or say they did, that don't appreciate how much better the club is, and I'm sorry but the only conclusion I can come to, is that they are lying when they claim this. Not one person I know, that actually is a long term supporter, denies that the club isn't miles better than they were when the Halls and Shepherd took over. yes much better than when they came but when they left they were going backwards at an alarming rate and had been for some time.................why can't you see this ? we finished 7th and qualified for europe 2 years ago. I've said my piece. The raised expectations are their legacy. I have said that appointing Souness was a clanger but to say they weren't capable of being successful again, when they understood the game and had appointing managers that had did well, and appointed a manager who had a record like Alex Ferguson at the time, is bollocks to be honest. The last few weeks should have been a reality check to you, and a few others. I'm not repeating myself. Their legacy is the fact that the club was a million miles better than when they came, and expectations were miles higher too. Is that or is it not a legacy ?