madras

I dont mean to stoke a fire here, or open up another can of worms, but by my reckoning only the very best managers in the present have been able to train there team to be able to adapt to quickly to new formations quickly and efficiently. Its hard to find many teams without world class managers who have had any degree of success by changing there formations alot, they are simply not good enough to coach tere players to adapt to formations on a weekly basis. Is Keegan really skilled enough to a) make sure players are tacticaly aware during formations changes on a weekly basis and b) get the right plyaers in who are adaptabe and equally successful in different positions. The jurys out for me, i cant help but think he'll find a couple of fomrations and stick. My hope is that eventually we will go with the attacing 433 (not 433/451) but i can't see Keegan being able to get the quality of player to make that truly effective,so i can see him reverting back to 442 for the time being which is easier to buy for and familiar with the eventual quality gradually building up to be able to make the 433 truly effective. In his first spell here as manager we played a number of systems or formations and at Man City he even got some joy with 3-5-2. Now I'm not saying he's a tactical genius but good players in the right frame of mind can play well regardless of what system is being deployed and that's why we have Owen playing well in a deeper role, or had Howey converting from a striker to a centre-back, or Rob Lee a wide player to a central midfielder. Newcastle at our best in the 90s may have set up in 4-4-2 or whatever but the clue is in the detail, we didn't play in straight lines or banks of 4, we played fluent interchanging football not based around a system or a formation, but pass and move, confidence and belief, the philosophies of the manager. If KK lined up those players in 4-4-2 against Reading, withdrawing Martins to the right, it would work just as well providing they were in the right frame of mind, that's what confidence and direction from the dugout can achieve, happy players able to perform regardless. That's why I believe we will not stick to any one formation or system, we'll evolve and our pattern of play during a game will dictate our system or formation rather than the system or formation dictating how the players play. The opposite of Big Sam basically. Back to Owen, is he a midfielder? No he's not, it's madness. But because the team are playing well and he's in the right frame of mind he's able to play there and perform as a player. That is how KK will work it. Again good players in the right frame of mind can play all kinds of ways. This is why the Dutch are so versatile. In their youth they don't really play systems or positions on a field, they line up a certain way as a starting block, but they find their own way on the pitch during the match and by the time they reach a certain age, they've evolved into all-rounders able to play anywhere in any system. Dutch players are arguably the most successful in European football, they have graced every league, all kinds of teams, systems and formations. It's down to their ability and the frame of mind they've been brought up on in an environment that allowed them to be free as possible on the pitch. That's kind of like how KK sees it. Give players some licence, improve their technique, get them in the right frame of mind and watch them flourish, repeat it X 11 and watch that team flourish. I think you're romanticising a bit here. If you keep changin the formations then you are constantly changing the roles of certain players. Footbal has come along way from the 90's when the level of preperation and detail were no way nar the levels they are now. Players rely on specific instructions and specifics roles within the team. To say that the team maybe set out as a 442 but could end up playing a 433 deending on the "confidence" and "flow" of the team, nowadays is reckless because these things can get exploited to a completely different level. This is why i made my original post, managers like Benitez and Mourhino are world reknowned for being able to a) set up a team formationally aware and b) reknowned for being able to coach there players to quickly adapt there roles to new formations mid game on order to change the game. For me, Keegan doesnt have these skills and that is why i think he may find a couple of formtaions and stick with them if they are successful. you watch a different game to me ...in the games i watch the better teams have movement.LESS specific instructions and the manager gives the players more freedom. what the manager does tht is clever is he brings in players that are not only good on the ball but off it AND have desire. as ever ,but for different reasons,it's the players that really make the difference at the highest level The better teams or the more attacking teams? I think you're wrong by saying they have "less instrutions" You look at a team like Man U for example i genuinely do not belive that Rooney's natural game is what it is at the mo - the focal striker, it isn his natual game, but he has been instructed to play that way, he is an absolute example of someone having had the creative licene taken away for them for the good of the team and the stability of the fomration. More specific to my post, look how Chelsea under Mourihno and Benitez amdLiverpool in the CL, they are a well drilled team who only have c ouple of player with creative freedom but still have extremely specific instructions. man utd is a great example. yes it may not be rooneys natural game but he'll stil drift around more than forwards at oher clubs,does ronaldo stick out wide left ? does giggs regularly come into the middle ? due to their movement who is the "focal striker" rooney or tevez ? how often does scholes pop up alongside the forwards ?

how many of that 52,000 would have turned up had they not already paid (ie season tickets) ? how many of that 52,000 would have renewed next season had allardyce still been in charge ?

I dont mean to stoke a fire here, or open up another can of worms, but by my reckoning only the very best managers in the present have been able to train there team to be able to adapt to quickly to new formations quickly and efficiently. Its hard to find many teams without world class managers who have had any degree of success by changing there formations alot, they are simply not good enough to coach tere players to adapt to formations on a weekly basis. Is Keegan really skilled enough to a) make sure players are tacticaly aware during formations changes on a weekly basis and b) get the right plyaers in who are adaptabe and equally successful in different positions. The jurys out for me, i cant help but think he'll find a couple of fomrations and stick. My hope is that eventually we will go with the attacing 433 (not 433/451) but i can't see Keegan being able to get the quality of player to make that truly effective,so i can see him reverting back to 442 for the time being which is easier to buy for and familiar with the eventual quality gradually building up to be able to make the 433 truly effective. In his first spell here as manager we played a number of systems or formations and at Man City he even got some joy with 3-5-2. Now I'm not saying he's a tactical genius but good players in the right frame of mind can play well regardless of what system is being deployed and that's why we have Owen playing well in a deeper role, or had Howey converting from a striker to a centre-back, or Rob Lee a wide player to a central midfielder. Newcastle at our best in the 90s may have set up in 4-4-2 or whatever but the clue is in the detail, we didn't play in straight lines or banks of 4, we played fluent interchanging football not based around a system or a formation, but pass and move, confidence and belief, the philosophies of the manager. If KK lined up those players in 4-4-2 against Reading, withdrawing Martins to the right, it would work just as well providing they were in the right frame of mind, that's what confidence and direction from the dugout can achieve, happy players able to perform regardless. That's why I believe we will not stick to any one formation or system, we'll evolve and our pattern of play during a game will dictate our system or formation rather than the system or formation dictating how the players play. The opposite of Big Sam basically. Back to Owen, is he a midfielder? No he's not, it's madness. But because the team are playing well and he's in the right frame of mind he's able to play there and perform as a player. That is how KK will work it. Again good players in the right frame of mind can play all kinds of ways. This is why the Dutch are so versatile. In their youth they don't really play systems or positions on a field, they line up a certain way as a starting block, but they find their own way on the pitch during the match and by the time they reach a certain age, they've evolved into all-rounders able to play anywhere in any system. Dutch players are arguably the most successful in European football, they have graced every league, all kinds of teams, systems and formations. It's down to their ability and the frame of mind they've been brought up on in an environment that allowed them to be free as possible on the pitch. That's kind of like how KK sees it. Give players some licence, improve their technique, get them in the right frame of mind and watch them flourish, repeat it X 11 and watch that team flourish. I think you're romanticising a bit here. If you keep changin the formations then you are constantly changing the roles of certain players. Footbal has come along way from the 90's when the level of preperation and detail were no way nar the levels they are now. Players rely on specific instructions and specifics roles within the team. To say that the team maybe set out as a 442 but could end up playing a 433 deending on the "confidence" and "flow" of the team, nowadays is reckless because these things can get exploited to a completely different level. This is why i made my original post, managers like Benitez and Mourhino are world reknowned for being able to a) set up a team formationally aware and b) reknowned for being able to coach there players to quickly adapt there roles to new formations mid game on order to change the game. For me, Keegan doesnt have these skills and that is why i think he may find a couple of formtaions and stick with them if they are successful. you watch a different game to me ...in the games i watch the better teams have movement.LESS specific instructions and the manager gives the players more freedom. what the manager does tht is clever is he brings in players that are not only good on the ball but off it AND have desire. as ever ,but for different reasons,it's the players that really make the difference at the highest level

the problem with our 4-3-3 is that it is kind of rigid (the midfield very rarely-if ever gets beyond the forwards and the forwards aren't exactly workhorses) compared to man utd who pull you all over. ie midfielders pushing on and forwrds dropping deep,dragging defenders away creating gaps for others. We don't set out to play the formation in a rigid way. Man U have simply got better players. more fluid players........for now I do love a bit of optimism. am i wearing rose tinted specs in thinking keegan started it in the prem ? cole up front,then lee,sellars,beardo,clarke etc all over and ciovering for each other......the game has got faster and more physical. still think an energised kk will work.

the problem with our 4-3-3 is that it is kind of rigid (the midfield very rarely-if ever gets beyond the forwards and the forwards aren't exactly workhorses) compared to man utd who pull you all over. ie midfielders pushing on and forwrds dropping deep,dragging defenders away creating gaps for others. We don't set out to play the formation in a rigid way. Man U have simply got better players. more fluid players........for now

for a week or two i could make an argument for smith playing attacking midfield

i thought (until about derby away) allardyce would have us organised and hard to beat.like everton///boring to wtach but with a goal threat

this is how sad things have become......i've brought some plants home from girl 1's gardening club for the school hols and i've checked the weather forecast to see if they can go out and the result is bbc weather,uk weather and the met office are now predicting showers,cloudy with sunny spells (so probably 3ft o'snow then)

the problem with our 4-3-3 is that it is kind of rigid (the midfield very rarely-if ever gets beyond the forwards and the forwards aren't exactly workhorses) compared to man utd who pull you all over. ie midfielders pushing on and forwrds dropping deep,dragging defenders away creating gaps for others.

I hung on far too long before saying souness had to go (took till the wigan reserves in the league/rumbelows/milk cup thing)

aye,before errrr silly season kicks in

........in which you can own up to being wrong. No childish proving others got it wrong, this is confessional. Here goes. I said...........

also think "first season in a foreign league in a team which has been largely poor" these two have probably been the successes of the season.

i've just checked and it seems we are of no interest to the readers of the northampton chronicle anymore.

where we you 3 yerars ago when i was fighting this battle on my own ?

Arsenal are not 'naturally' from North London, they are from Woolwich, South London. WHU's bitterest rivals are Leyton Orient Yeah, like we're not really Newcastle United but Newcastle East End and Newcastle West End. So that makes us Newcastle ....United.... Arsenal are from a different part of London, there is nothing in north London to connect them there, and no team from north London merged with them. how long have arsenal been in north london then ? how long? I couldn't give a s***. I know a few yiddo's who do though. is it possible they've been there long enough to be classed as north london (i don't know how long arsenal have been in north london but their first game at highbury was in 1913.....i think they can class themselves as north london by now.)

Gotta be going some to beat that time we demolished Everton 3-1 at Goodison. Thats still my fave KK away perfomance. Should have been six or seven. and their 1 (limpar) was about 5yds offside(no exaggeration)

I'm here We'll see in summer if it was a mistake or not though. Whatever happens, Keegan made a decision which has given him 4 more months to take a look at the players that he has at his disposal and 4 more months for him to extensively scout the players that he might end up buying. He's been vindicated in his decision to stick with the squad and see the season through By not getting relegated? Thats all we cared about on Jan 15th? Ok One performance doesnt make a season but if this is backed up by wins against Reading and Portsmouth, i'll agree with you. As it stands, in reality, we are just another side to have knocked 4 past Spurs this season. We were always going to end up as a mid-table team with or without Allardyce because we hadn't accumulated enough points in the easy part of our season so yea, I'd say yea, not getting relegated was the only major goal after Allardyce got sacked. We could have gotten an extra couple of mill from prize money but that would have meant Keegan needing to spend money on players he hadn't scouted and on positions he might have been unsure about (eg. leftback). European football wasn't on the table anyway considering the teams ahead of us at that time, and the fact that now there's only one automatic UEFA Cup place surely vindicates his decision not to spend any money even more. I don't see how his decision not to sign anyone can be construed as a negative one, especially now with the benefit of hindsight and seeing that the short-term benefits weren't much (the aforementioned couple of mill of prize money) but there was a definitely a long-term risk (paying over-the-top fees and wages for average players) there. He gambled on us surviving and it's worked (barring a crazy collapse), and now he'll be way surer of the positions that need strengthening, the players that will stay/go and of course he's had lots of extra time to eye up prospective players as well. i think we may well have gone down had allardyce stayed.

you shouldn't have said "anyone". you know what'll happen

nice to see the before game assumptions then watch how the game pans out from another perspective. http://www.glory-glory.co.uk/forums/thread/339097.aspx

even when you look at their team on paper,take away the forward line and it looks weak.

i wonder if keegan will look at positioning like that ? ie defensive midfielders etc. under keegan nicky butt has got forward a fair bit and geremi and barton both make the edge of the box regularly. keegan is more likely to want rob lee/gary speed style players who do both and read the game well rather than an out-and-out defensive midfielder.

with some clouds

Arsenal are not 'naturally' from North London, they are from Woolwich, South London. WHU's bitterest rivals are Leyton Orient Yeah, like we're not really Newcastle United but Newcastle East End and Newcastle West End. So that makes us Newcastle ....United.... Arsenal are from a different part of London, there is nothing in north London to connect them there, and no team from north London merged with them. how long have arsenal been in north london then ?

nice line in that independent piece with keegan urging martins to "run at him,attack him"