UV

IMO it's a far bigger threat to promotion that we have no defensive cover than the risk that the midfield which has us top of the table and has enough cover will suddenly not be good enough to keep us there. Plus the chances that we would get anyone to actually improve the midfield for the money we are going to be spending is remote. I know nothing about this bloke, but under the circumstances I'm happy enough that we're getting in this level of player as backup in an area where we are most vulnerable from any injuries. Since we brought in Pancrate, I seriously doubt we're even looking at any more midfielders tbh.

We're probably still paying for half of them. We're almost certainly not still paying for any of them. Probably not for any player signed pre-Ashley in fact. Great to see how well it went paying for players up front though. Also good to see your not breaking the habit of a lifetime and are still just making shit up. You could get a job for the club.

It seems to me what's happened is that they knew Llambias was on holiday in Vegas and that Ashley was out of the country, and they incorrectly put 2 and 2 together and assumed Ashley was in Vegas too when he was actually somewhere else abroad. They got some of the facts wrong, but the main point of the article that the two of them were off on their jollies in the middle of the transfer window is still valid. The club isn't banning them for the crime of getting Ashley's holiday destination wrong, it's banning them because they printed a story they didn't like which put them in a bad light. I don't see how anyone can say it isn't newsworthy that the top two men at the club jetting off on holiday in the middle of the transfer window while the manager is coming out with stuff like: If the local papers knew about stuff like this and just kept it to themselves they'd rightly be accused of covering up for the club to keep in with them. Oliver was vilified by most people on this board, probably including some of the people moaning about this article, because he didn't write about how crap Shepherd was in every article he wrote. It's up to the individual reader to decide whether they think it's important or not, and you can argue about the tone of the article if you like although it's really not that bad, but of course it's newsworthy, and of course the paper should print it.

You might have a point if we were talking about a world class player, but we're talking about a 26 year old League 1 striker who would almost certainly be used as backup at Everton. Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking completely hypothetically here, as I'm not at all convinced about this Everton link and I think the deal probably broke down simply because we (rightly IMO) didn't offer Leeds enough cash for him. I'm just arguing about the principal of "we can't compete with Everton for players" and commenting on a worrying trend I see of the club's dealings with players into and out of the club. Don't see how those details about Beckford make him any less likely to join Everton. The fact is that they wanted him, and his age and current playing level probably makes it even more likely that he would bite their hands off. It's all hypothetical really, as we have no idea what went on, how much we offered and/or what would have been considered 'enough'. You don't see why some players might rather play first team football for a top of the table Championship club than be a reserve at a mid-low table Premiership one? It depends on the character and motivation of the player of course, but they're not all just out to grab the biggest paycheck. You're even more cynical than me.

You might have a point if we were talking about a world class player, but we're talking about a 26 year old League 1 striker who would almost certainly be used as backup at Everton. Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking completely hypothetically here, as I'm not at all convinced about this Everton link and I think the deal probably broke down simply because we (rightly IMO) didn't offer Leeds enough cash for him. I'm just arguing about the principal of "we can't compete with Everton for players" and commenting on a worrying trend I see of the club's dealings with players into and out of the club. we can compete but you can easily understand if, under the current respective situations, he went to everton. Certainly, and I wouldn't (and am not) complaining about a one-off miss. I'm talking about a worrying trend, the apparent lack of effort by the club, and the acceptance by some that there's no hope of us signing someone like Beckford if Everton want him for the reserves. The only players we have signed in recent years are those no-one else was interested in (except maybe for Guthrie).

You might have a point if we were talking about a world class player, but we're talking about a 26 year old League 1 striker who would almost certainly be used as backup at Everton. Edit: To clarify, I'm speaking completely hypothetically here, as I'm not at all convinced about this Everton link and I think the deal probably broke down simply because we (rightly IMO) didn't offer Leeds enough cash for him. I'm just arguing about the principal of "we can't compete with Everton for players" and commenting on a worrying trend I see of the club's dealings with players into and out of the club.

Thanks for providing your own example to contradict your own point. Players don't always join the currently best team they get an offer from and it's down to the management of the club to try and persuade them. You say Bent "thought we were too big for him at that time", but that's just your interpretation of his reasoning. He was persuaded his career would be better off if he went elsewhere and we obviously didn't do enough to persuade him he would prosper if he came to us. You don't win them all, but you wont win many if you don't try very hard. I absolutely don't accept the point that "he isn't good enough for us to do everything to get him". If he's a target then we certainly should pull out the stops to get him (I'm not talking about transfer fees or wages here, but about convincing the player we really want him and persuading him to join). In some cases that may very well be true, but it's also a very easy excuse for the losing team's supporters to trot out, and subsequently for our supporters to repeat if the player turns out to be less than brilliant and they are pissed off with the manager/chairman. There are times when we simply would be the worse option for a player and you may have to do that if you really want to get the player. I'm not talking about finances here, I'm talking about selling the player a vision of the club going forward (chairman) and their place in that vision (manager). Although you're probably right that on past form it would probably be best keeping Llambias out of it or the player would just dismiss anything he said as bullshit.

yeah but if we think that way how can we blame NUFC ? (which surely is the point of most posts) We can't blame NUFC, that's what I was saying. i know, i was being sarcy about those who'll use situations where there is no blame and still find a way. as if there wasn't enough legit stuff. I'm not saying I'm gutted we appear to have missed out on Beckford, or that we should have just given in to whatever price Leeds wanted, but saying there's no competition if Everton are interested and then saying we did everything possible to sign him is contradictory. There are plenty of reasons you could use to persuade the player that we would be a better career move, and players don't always just join the club which is currently sitting higher in the league or offer the best wages. Playing wise with us he would have a chance to settle himself in a winning team in the Championship and thus have a better chance of keeping his place and doing well in the Prem should we be promoted, whereas with Everton if he got much playing time at all he'd be thrown in at the deep end while still trying to fit into the team. Financially, we could easily afford to match whatever wages they might offer a backup striker, and of course with us there's a much bigger potential. There was a time at this club when both manager and chairman would try and convince players to join us ahead of other teams, and it wasn't always just down to £££ when they did. These days I honestly wonder if the manager even gets to speak to the player and the MD & owner jet off on their jollies during negotiations. I don't expect us to sign every transfer target whatever the cost or competition, but is it any wonder we now repeatedly get mediocre players turning us down when anyone else shows an interest, we let our best players leave without a fight, and only seem to be able to sign the players noone else want.

Quality finisher who will thrive with regular football. Please, PLEASE bring him in! Another 30 yr old to go with the tired bunch we already have here. Ashley's Arsenal blueprint in action I thought it was Aston Villa we were copying. You know the team we sold our 22 year old right winger to and who have spent over £90m net in the last 5 years, all financed by the owner. Probably should have banned the Journal back then for the "accuracy, tone, inference and content of the article".

There would be no journalists at Press Conferences if club banned them for publishing inaccurate stories. Should have just let it go. Tomorrow's chip wrappers and all that. It's the all new 100% honest Newcastle United board. Having been (rightly) hammered by the press for lying to the fans, there's a certain irony in the Sunday Sun printing something which misleads the fans. How do you know the article was misleading? Can't let misleading info like that get spread around or people will only complain when we sign noone. Also a misleading inference that Hughton has any say on transfer targets and actually gets to talk with Ashley or become involved in negotiations.

Thank goodness we can finally move forward as a club now that the last of the hindrances to Ashley running the club properly have been removed and this massive revenue stream has been restored. Let the good times roll.

Compared to £28m (including £6m of exceptional items) in 2007 and £20m (including £3m of exceptional items) in 2006. That's the cost of sorting out the club's finances from the mess they were in I guess. Not sure where you are coming from here. I haven't got the 2006 accounts to hand but in 2007 turnover was £87m, wages were £60m and the other costs were £61m which is why we lost £34m that year. From Note 3 in the accounts - operating expenses before player amortisation & trading The main expenses (I'm missing out some smaller values to save typing) are: staff costs - £62,475,000 deprecation on fixed assets - £3,228,000 + £208,000 owen compo (£6,725,000) operating lease payments - £1,115,000 other operating charges - £26,940,000 total = £87,411,000 ergo the "running costs" people are talking about = £1,115,000 + £26,940,000 = £28m (Around £6m of which is later detailed as manager and board payoffs and costs for the aborted refinancing package). The £61m you are talking about I guess must include player amortisation & trading which was specifically being left out.

I assume you're talking about the Doug Ellis run Villa here, not the Lerner run Villa.

Compared to £28m (including £6m of exceptional items) in 2007 and £20m (including £3m of exceptional items) in 2006. That's the cost of sorting out the club's finances from the mess they were in I guess.

We're paying £2-3M for a player who's 26 and still playing in League 1. When Leeds were in the Championship they loaned him out to League 1 sides. He may turn out to be half decent, but it's hardly spending money on an exciting young prospect.

I thought it sounded familiar. To be fair Dave, this time last year we were a good bet for the top six and thoughts of relegation were just for pessimistic fools, so it was only sensible for Ashley to sell off a couple of players who didn't share the vision he has for the club. Okay so it didn't quite work out like that, but everyone must realise that was just because of what happened to poor old Joe, it wasn't Ashley's fault was it, he was just acting in the best long term interests of HIS asset by getting rid of past-it players like Given & N'Zogbia and bringing in exciting prospects like Nolan and Taylor to strengthen the squad while we were on the up. This year we're even more of a safe bet this year for promotion, so I don't see why anyone should be worried by getting rid of a few surplus first teamers if it can bring in a bit of money to reduce the debt. In Ashley we trust.

Let's go back 3 seasons then. 06-07 games shots conceeded shots per goal goals per shot save % goals per game Harper 16.1 72 18 4 0.25 75 1.12 Given 20.9 98 27 3.63 0.28 72 1.29 07-08 games shots conceeded shots per goal goals per shot save % goals per game Harper 19.9 103 28 3.68 0.27 73 1.41 Given 18.1 91 37 2.46 0.41 59 2.05 08-09 games shots conceeded shots per goal goals per shot save % goals per game Harper 16 83 22 3.77 0.27 73 1.38 Given 22 109 37 2.95 0.34 66 1.68 As most of the deficiencies in Harper's goalkeeping ability in your subjective analysis would apply equally to Given, and Harper's record is actually better than Given's when given a chance in the past 3 seasons, can I assume you think Given was an over-rated wank stain and a liability for us too?

I certainly am pleased and surprised. We've done better than I could have hoped for (especially defensively). Thankfully we've been lucky with a lack of injuries (again, especially defensively), and the lack of clinical finishing in this division has made a bigger difference than I would have expected. I'd like a link to where I thought we were going to be relegated again like, must have been pissed when I posted that. I just remember being pessimistic about promotion due to lack of squad depth.

As long as we can still proclaim players a success after half an hour's playing time though. Well done to Ashley for allowing us to splash out on an out of contract player for half a season though. The fact Pancrate scored a goal sure proved me wrong in my opinion of how much he's going to back the team. In the half an hr he's played he's been successful. If you want to proclaim him for a success for the season you'll have to wait until May, but best just to diss him now to be on the safe side. I'd say it was best not to judge at all until a player's had a good few games, but to base your expectations on his previous history. Maybe that's just me though.

As long as we can still proclaim players a success after half an hour's playing time though. Well done to Ashley for allowing us to splash out on an out of contract player for half a season though. The fact Pancrate scored a goal sure proved me wrong in my opinion of how much he's going to back the team.

Conceded 22 in 16 games compared to Given's 37 in 22

I think it's clear that what is wrong with Harper is his positioning. In training he needs to start thinking "okay, that's where I SHOULD be, but I'll just take 1 step left/right/forward/back as appropriate". Then when he makes a save it looks much more impressive, and when they go in - well they were "unstoppable" weren't they, no keeper could have got to that. He needs to realise that it's not about conceding less goals, it's about being seen to make spectacular saves (and not annoying people with your mannerisms when you kick it out too, obviously).

Simon Bird's trying to manage the trick of endlessly slagging off Newcastle while keeping the fans onside. What a c***. Although I pretty much agreed with JFK about Bird, I think that is a very good article and sums up what has happened under Hughton. CHRISSY HUGHTON'S BLACK AND WHITE AND GREY ARMY !! It's an illustration of the fact that the most important relationships around a club are between the players, the coaching staff and the owners / board. If those are harmonious, then the team can deal with whatever happens to be kicking off outside.

Definition: 'ignorant adjective 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man. 2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics. 3. uninformed; unaware. 4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.' Been ST holder for 17 years, so I think to be accused of being ignorant regarding Harper is incorrect. Nothing will stop me thinking that Harper is shit, and no, I am not a WUM. Also, if shit for brains posters look at my original post, they will see that I didn't mention anything about selling him, I merely stated that I 'Would be delighted if he fucked off.' Don't think we would get fuck all (from a Premiership club) for him! To add to the knowledge you automatically get from being a ST holder, here are some comparative facts from when Harper has played regularly. 06-07 games shots conceeded shots per goal goals per shot save % goals per game Harper 16.1 72 18 4 0.25 75 1.12 Given 20.9 98 27 3.63 0.28 72 1.29 07-08 games shots conceeded shots per goal goals per shot save % goals per game Harper 19.9 103 28 3.68 0.27 73 1.41 Given 18.1 91 37 2.46 0.41 59 2.05 08-09 games shots conceeded shots per goal goals per shot save % goals per game Harper 16 83 22 3.77 0.27 73 1.38 Given 22 109 37 2.95 0.34 66 1.68

When did Ashley hold his hands up ? Google 'Mike Ashley apology' if you're curious. Yeah, i know what he said but it was just words mate. Do you really think he is sorry? If he REALLY did hold his hands up and admit he was wrong why haven't we got a proper manager yet and why is the swuad still paper thin? The mans a proven gobshyte, him and his cockney casino managing baboon. Well for me the important thing is that he's accepted at least his share of the responsibility through that apology. He's admitted that he's made mistakes, that's enough. I don't particularly want anyone to grovel, and I don't know 'how' sorry he is. However, I'm sure he feels there are others who should be holding their hands up as well. The manager situation has been affected by his decision to sell. I can't see that it's an indication of how 'sorry' he feels. You mean his decision to "sell" which came just 5 days after saying "Talks are now ongoing between us about how we can take this club forward again." Have you not learned yet that nothing Ashley or Llambias say can be believed. They are quite happy to lie through their teeth even when they know they're going to get found out just days later. They have no shame and they will say whatever they think is necessary to get them through the current shit storm their incompetence has kicked up. Any apology or statement of contrition is completely hollow. He didn't actually say he'd made any mistakes btw, the carefully worded statement was "I fully accept that mistakes were made during this and previous seasons and I am very sorry for that." I personally think they don't actually believe they've made any major mistakes themselves, they just think they've been unlucky and have been let down by some of the people they appointed.