macca888

Gentlemen...........This is a very good discussion with excellent points mooted on both sides but what is evident and not taken from papertalk or rumours is detailed as follows: 1. Ashley purchased the club without conducting due diligence and it is widely known that he paid off or gave the club an interest free loan for a large proportion of the debt incurred by the previous regime supposedly in ecess of 110 million pounds. 2. He has admitted to making mistakes and dont forget, he had to also pay off Allardyce and his numerous back up staff who were all Shepherd appointments too andf were taking the club to relegation anyway. 3. He made a mistake in selecting Keegan and allowed his heart to rule his head. If it was obvious money wasnt available to buy the so called superstars Keegan wanted, he should have sought a different manager and not him. 4. His appontment of Wise and Co. may have been unwise under Keergan but could have worked under a continental coach, someone like Hiddink or Hitzfeld. 5. The fact that he appointed Kinnear, Hughton and Shearer last season was a huge mistake as well documented. However, I doubt anyone on here could foresee in the summer where we are now. Last season, there seemed to be a different problem every week but this year, it has been impressive to see that the administration has quietly gone about its business and allowed the team management and players to quietly go about theirs. The fact that very little other than good reports seem to be emanating from SJP augers well for the future. Noone will know until next season how well Hughton and the team will do. Noone knows whether Ashley will back the team further with decent recruitment. I personally think that the season after next may well be the crucial one. Will we be financially strong enough to compete further up the league if we survuive next season. I think we will because Ashley seems to have a plan in place not to over commit but to look at younger, more eager players to take the club forward than the mercenaries purchased by previous regimes. Living within our means for a couple of years and achieving financial stablility is paramount in my opinion and I believe there will be shocks in store for other clubs in the PL over thee next few years because of the over commitments. Lets just say, Rome wasnt built in a day.

The point is that it is not just Geremi's salary that saw us with somewhere between a 36 to 42 million pound salary annual commitment. In spite of selling Geremi and signing 4 permanent and 2 loan players, our outgoing are still disproportionate to our income and Ashley is funding the difference voluntarily. He could have said stuff it, and sold more players, but he hasnt. He has backed the manager and our position in the table should be just as much a tribute to Ashley as it is to Hughton and the players.

they will have to be shrewd if the reported wage levels are anything to go by, do you think the recent signings are good enough for the premiership, do you know the length of their contracts ? Bob, we wont actually know until we see the likes of Routledge, Williamson etc play in the EPL. What I will say is that the likes of Dann, Johnson at Birmingham, Lescott at City, Baines at Everton and quite a few others, have come from lower divisions and done well in the PL so it is not beyond the realm of mpossibility that our signings will also succeed. Furthermore, if you look at the teams near the bottom of the PL, I dont think any of them are that much better than us, if at all. Also, there are plenty of good quality players around who would more than likely jump at the chance of coming to NUFC at realistic prices and whilst most peoplke on here would like to see Arsenal type football played, realism says that workmanlike performances are the order of the day under Hughton and that hasnt done the likes of Birmingham, Villa, Everton any harm this season at all. Maybe we can see a sim ilar response next season. I've seen these players, I'm not going to watch the smoggies or anybody else, as you are telling people to do, but I don't think they are as good as the players he has sold. What do you think of them ? You are probably right there, to a certain extent. However, the players who left, no doubt, with the undoubted skill they had, failed miserably to mput that skill to good use for the club. Ask yourself, how many have suceeded since they moved! Given, Milner are the only ones I can think of. Viduka retired, Owen spent most of the season benched as did Beye, Martins at Wolfsburg? What has he done there? Even Edgar at Burnley cant get a game there. So, as for their undoubted skill, yes, they were skillful but only when they felt like it which wasnt very bloody often, was it? The players coming in have substantially less salaries, points to prove and who knows yet, maybe huge successes in the PL. I would much rather be top of the CCC at the moment than bottom of the PL. Your comment about managers was very relevant and certainly a major mistake by Ashley last year, which so far, he has learned in his backing of Hughton. I actually think CH will do well next year and believe he deserves a great deal of credit for this season's success. Ashley put his faith in him and he has rewarded that faith, so far. Lets look ahead and not back. Ashley got lucky with Hughton, end of. If he had so much faith in him, why wait until the end of October to give him the permanent job? It's Hughton and the players who stayed who have "steered" us back in the right direction. Yes, Ashley has probably kept us on course by coming up with sensible money in January, but he would have been a complete moron not to see that minor investment in our squad would result in promotion and all its benefits. So, you have basically admitted he made the right decision to appoint Hughton and that he is not a moron after all. What is your point or are you another one who is living on past history?

Bullshit Which players did Ashley not sign? What was the clubs debt in 2007? What is the clubs debt now? What exactly was bullshit? Mate, your entire post lacks a clear understanding of the financial meltdown the club was facing due to the sale of the club to Ashley. If he had conducted due diligence on the clubs accounts like he shouild have done, I doubt he would have purchased the club and we would most probably be playing in the Northern League by now. That is how badly off we were under the fanciful freddie Shep. Spending all sponsorship mponey on a flop like Owen and signing those superstars like Boumsong and Luque wasnt done by Ashley but we are still paying off those fees now. With losing so much revenue after relegation, he had no other alternative but to financially back the club in order to get back up first time. He could have sold more playuers but he didnt. Nolan was wanted by Megson at Bolton, Smith by Allardyce at Blackburn and Taylor by Moyes at Everton. Offers were made and Ashley could have raked in another 12 to 15 million pounds for that little lot. We wont mention the reported offers by Wolves and Stoke for Andy Carroll in January either, will we? Undertstand the facts first before you spout all this crap, mate. Quite plain and simple, he could have wiped off more of the debt if he sold these players but it wasnt in his best interests to do so in spite of the fact he was ready to make a substantial loss on his investment if someone offered him 100 million for the club last summer. Give the bloke a chance and look forward, not back.

they will have to be shrewd if the reported wage levels are anything to go by, do you think the recent signings are good enough for the premiership, do you know the length of their contracts ? Bob, we wont actually know until we see the likes of Routledge, Williamson etc play in the EPL. What I will say is that the likes of Dann, Johnson at Birmingham, Lescott at City, Baines at Everton and quite a few others, have come from lower divisions and done well in the PL so it is not beyond the realm of mpossibility that our signings will also succeed. Furthermore, if you look at the teams near the bottom of the PL, I dont think any of them are that much better than us, if at all. Also, there are plenty of good quality players around who would more than likely jump at the chance of coming to NUFC at realistic prices and whilst most peoplke on here would like to see Arsenal type football played, realism says that workmanlike performances are the order of the day under Hughton and that hasnt done the likes of Birmingham, Villa, Everton any harm this season at all. Maybe we can see a sim ilar response next season. I've seen these players, I'm not going to watch the smoggies or anybody else, as you are telling people to do, but I don't think they are as good as the players he has sold. What do you think of them ? You are probably right there, to a certain extent. However, the players who left, no doubt, with the undoubted skill they had, failed miserably to mput that skill to good use for the club. Ask yourself, how many have suceeded since they moved! Given, Milner are the only ones I can think of. Viduka retired, Owen spent most of the season benched as did Beye, Martins at Wolfsburg? What has he done there? Even Edgar at Burnley cant get a game there. So, as for their undoubted skill, yes, they were skillful but only when they felt like it which wasnt very bloody often, was it? The players coming in have substantially less salaries, points to prove and who knows yet, maybe huge successes in the PL. I would much rather be top of the CCC at the moment than bottom of the PL. Your comment about managers was very relevant and certainly a major mistake by Ashley last year, which so far, he has learned in his backing of Hughton. I actually think CH will do well next year and believe he deserves a great deal of credit for this season's success. Ashley put his faith in him and he has rewarded that faith, so far. Lets look ahead and not back.

Most of your replies are heresay and lacking in any form of evidence.

are you happy at him changing managers as often as he has, selling those players and being relegated ? do you think the new players are as good as those he has sold ? Bob, of course not. But lets be honest, relegatioin was a reality going back to the Souness era. Roeder and Allardyce also had us sliding towards the inevitable. As for the loss of the players, if they didnt want to mplay for the club any longer, then yes, I was glad to see the back of them. What I am saying is that noone expected us to be in the position we are now, after the summer of discontent. Ashley appears to have learned a few lessons whereby we have had stability in the management side, getting results, provioding finances for players etc etc etc. I am hoping that this current situation will continue in the future and to be honest, I would much rather have keen, eager, young up and coming performers in the side than overpaid injury prone prima donnas like Owen, Viduka and Geremi. After all, these were the main players who got us relegated in the first place.

they will have to be shrewd if the reported wage levels are anything to go by, do you think the recent signings are good enough for the premiership, do you know the length of their contracts ? Bob, we wont actually know until we see the likes of Routledge, Williamson etc play in the EPL. What I will say is that the likes of Dann, Johnson at Birmingham, Lescott at City, Baines at Everton and quite a few others, have come from lower divisions and done well in the PL so it is not beyond the realm of mpossibility that our signings will also succeed. Furthermore, if you look at the teams near the bottom of the PL, I dont think any of them are that much better than us, if at all. Also, there are plenty of good quality players around who would more than likely jump at the chance of coming to NUFC at realistic prices and whilst most peoplke on here would like to see Arsenal type football played, realism says that workmanlike performances are the order of the day under Hughton and that hasnt done the likes of Birmingham, Villa, Everton any harm this season at all. Maybe we can see a sim ilar response next season.

I could construct a long character assassination of Ashley but quite frankly i haven't the time. I am sure you could. The question would be how accurate it would be and what fact it was based on.

You fail to mention the fact that Bassong, Duff, Martins, Beye etc wanted to leave, as did Given, Insomnia and Milner before them. We made a substantial profit on some of those transfers and as you well know, we no longer had any financial clout so they had to go. He could have sold more too, but he didnt. Are you disatisfied with the backing he gave the manager in January? You would find the vast majority of supporters would say they were highly satisfied, considering not many expected anyoine to come in, especially after the Beckford/Kilgallon farce. The summer is a long way off. In January, there was still a chance we could fail to gain promotion. In the summer, I would expect him to invest further, but far more sensibly the the previous administration who virtually sealed our fate into oblivion.

Any walk of life, luck plays a big part, not just business. We all know that Ashley bought the club as a toy but has since realised that the football world is a different sort of business altogether and something which he appears to be learning very quickly. As for him being a cretin, you have actually spent time in his company, have you? I would prefer to make my assumptions of a person on what I see in front of me and not just from second, third and fourth hand heresay passed down by people who have an axe to grind because the Ashley had the nerve to upset "God". However, this forum is a theatre for opinion.

It is obvious for all to see. Whilst he was largely responsible last season with some bad decisionmaking, the fact that the following has occured leads most people to believe he has learned from his mistakes. He could have reduced the salary commitments further by selling more players.............he didnt. He could have called in the administrators when all was against him....................he didnt He could have refused to back his manager with signings in January..............he didnt He could have refused to pour more money into the club to pay salaries in January.....................he didnt This season has largely been reasonably quiet off the park, wouldnt you say? Less interference and allowing the manager and the players to get on with their jobs, Like I said in my previous post, he has learned a few things and the fruits are there for all to see. Top of the CCC. Allegedly, Middlesbrough were a better run club than us and look where they are in comparison. They will probably not make the play offs. I think a great deal of the clubs problems stemmed from the Shepherd era, especially on the financial side of things and Ashley, for some time now, has been covering those loses. Time will tell whether the improvement continues but I would call ytou a liar if you said to me that you would have expected us to be in the position we are now, if asked for an opinion back in August. Credit where credit is due and the next 12 months will be crucial for this cluib. The start has been made and maybe, just maybe, sensible financial control allied with shrewd signings could see us continue to improve over the next few years.

Look, those people on here who cannot see the woods for the trees (and I dont have to name them) need to understand several points here. Ashley has admitted to the mistakes and is trying to rectify them The previous regime took this club to the brink of oblivion. They have to share the blame. Ashley is trying to put the club on a sound financial footing and I, for one, will be glad to see the back of these so called superstars who have been holding the club for ransom for years. Rome wasnt built in a day, or in our case, rebuilt. Ashley seems to have decided to keep the club. Love him or hate him, he has backed his current manager and we have had an unexpectedly excellent season. Maybe he has turned the corner and promotion being achieved against everyones expectations. Crucial period will be next season to see whether we can build on it. I am no Ashley supporter but I find the one eyed opinions of some on this thread to be childish, lacking in knowledge and simply downright unsupportive of the club. Simple answer to this, if you dont like it, go and support someone else, maybe like Leeds or Middlesbrough, perhaps even Portsmouth, Palace, Chester City, Luton, Hull City or the plethera of other clubs facing financial meltdown in the years to come. We were so close under Shepherd and like it or not, Ashley saved our bacon...............fact.

I wonder whether this decision to sack him has something to do with Brown being instructed by the solicitors of the youing Hull player Cairney, that he wasnt to speak to him. Seems odd when he was the lad's manager. More to come on this, I guess.

Watched the game live here in Oz and thought that considering the layers mising and the injury to Colo, we should be satisfied getting a point there. Their midfield ran the show for long periods and I can understand the reasoning behind bringing Butt on. It was clear at the time we ran the risk of losing the game because of their midfield superiority and Hughton obviously had a point in mind, first and foremost. Biggest problem was the changes in defence due to the lack of Williamson at the start and the injury to Colo. Apart from the goal, I thought Hall and Kadar did well in the centre and we were to a large degree, untroubled there. It was more through Arca down the left, up against Raylor and the numerous fouls given away, particularly against Robson, where our problems stemmed from. Fortune favours the brave and bringing Best on gave Carroll some assistance which ultimately resulted in our equaliser and I thought we were on top at that stage and could have gone on and won it. Carroll almost got a second, if not for a block in the 6 yard box.

I think Hughton will revert to 451 for this one with Nolan supporting Carroll up front, Smith returning in midfield with Guthrie and either Pancake or Routledge out wide on the right. The rest as usual.

A dangerous game for us, by the way. Form goes out of the window and it will be a tight affair. I would not be surprised to see a nil-nil draw here because they are not too bad in defence with the likes of McManus and Wheater whilst their attack seems lightweight judging by them having Lita and Alliadiere up front against Cardiff. McDonald is injured which is a bonus and I wonder what happened to the guy they signed from Aberdeen.Lee Miller. Not a bad player and dangerous in the air but he doesnt seem to have featured recently for them. Anyway, I doubt there will be many goals in this one, either a no score draw or a one nil win either way.

I really think this lad will go a long way. He is the raw article at present but he frightens the shit out of defenders and think, if coached properly, he will be an England international in a couple of years. By that time, he may not be playing for us though but the lad clearly has rough edges that once shaved off, will be an excellent target man that players like Rooney and Defoe would work off. Give him time. I think he will prove top be invaluable asset to uis, if he stays.

Don't be daft man. I'm not man, I dont say it lightly either. I put Dennis above a lot of players, but I think if Viduka had been arsed, and stayed fit he'd have been something exceptional. TBH............Bergkamp = Beardsley.............nearst I have seen to the dutchman, certainly not Viduka

Sounds really interesting. I'm looking forward to the World Cup to see this kid. Hopefully, he will be in the squad. He was our best player last night, on debut with the national too and the coach, Verbeek, cautiously indicated when interviewed that he is certainly considering him for the WC. Biggest problem is that the Aussie league has finished for the season and the young lad will have not played any competitive football between now and when the WC begins. Most players in his position are looking for short term loan deals in europe and asia but I dont believe Oar is. Might work against his selection although I would certainly take him because he is an exciting talent.

Yes, something like that and I have no idea the reasoning behind some of the players wearing shirts with suchhigh numbers.

I know some of you might laugh at this but hear me out. Last night, Australia played Indonesia for a place in the 2011 Asian Cup finals. A young kid called Tommy Oar who has just turned 18 made his debut on the left wing. In the local comptetition this year, he has been outstanding and last night, he was brilliant on debut. He is small, but nuggety and has pace, skill and takes players on for fun. He has a sublime left foot and has great ability to cross accurately. Apparently, Feyenoord are after him along with a plethera of other european clubs but the kid, for his age, is very down to earth and sensible and has indicated that he would love to move to England in the future. Many people over here compare him to a young Harry Kewell although I can think this kid has more to offer especially in his pace and directness. If anyone has any contacts at NUFC, have a word to take a look at this kid before it is too late. They might want to look also at another youngster who also played last night called Scott Jamieson who also plays in the local comp here. He is a left back who reminds me a lot of a young Ashley Cole in the way he continually gets forward from left back in support and fires in quality crosses too.

We wouild be better off dropping Lampard and switching Gerrard into the middle. I thought Lampard was slopwer than Nolan tonight, although I only watched the first half. Liked the look of Zidan. If we could afford him in the summer, I would love to see him playing up front for NUFC. However, he is probably out of our price range. England wont get any further than the QFs. Too predictable and as others say, cannot play against passing sides. With Lampard and Barry in the centre of midfield, we are too one paced and slow. Hope Johnson and Cole are fit by the summer because Baines and Brown are not the answer there.

Tend to agree with you on this one. He is the so called b ig fish in the palce pool and whilst he has done well in a struggling side this season, the majority of his career has been at the lower levels and I dont see him having much of an influence with us in the PL. We need better, more experienced PL players next season.

Nolan and taylor weren't really the answer to our troubles, having sold Given and Nzogbia to turn a profit we really could have done with a bit of pace to secure the 1 point extra needed to survive. It's funny because he arrived and spent massively when we should have been cutting back, then in the window before relegation he changed his policy to spend nothing when a little investment would have been massively cost effective long term. I get the impression that his refusal to spend now only coincidentally matches up with being the right thing to do at this time. When we reach a window where real investment is needed again, I'm certain he'll get it wrong again. Also, I don't think Shepherd actually invested in '92 did he?, I thought it was all bank loans that he and the Halls were liable for if it went tits up. Not sure about that. We didn't really spend massively in the transfer market in summer 2007, although there was a hike in wages. We may have had a net transfer spend of between £5 million and £10 million (after selling Parker, Dyer) but at that stage, having done no due diligence, I don't think Ashley had the first idea of the economics of the business he'd just bought and he simply went where Fat Sam led him. Fair comment. It might also be noted that when Ashley bought the club, he was something like the 25th richest person in the country. The GEC saw him lose half his fortune in one fell swoop and that was bound to have some sort of flow on effect against the club. I dont think anyone envisaged relegation last season, hence the reason why reduced salaries were not factored into players contracts in case of relegation. It has been a huge learning curve for him but there appears to be indications that he is certainly understanding the business of a football club a lot more.