The College Dropout

Ba is better at making his own chances from scraps, not much doubt about that. Ba is probably a better player overall, doesn't stop Cisse being a top striker. It does like.

Fair enough, well Ba doesn't play for us any more so obviously the rules are different. Tbh i have come around to TT's line of thinking with regards to Cisse, genuinely do believe he needs competition and not just a partner. Would look to sign someone pacey to stretch defences and someone who can hold the ball up. ( very unlikely i know) But then again i don't really trust Pardew to rotate them properly if that happened. I was happy we didn't sign Shane Long. But he's the type of useful player we need. His type would do well alongside Cisse.

No racisto, but they're not the biggest people naturally.

He had some great chances against Benfica tbh. That was the perfect set-up for him and he didn't quite hit the heights I expected.

13 in 47 is Craig Bellamy numbers. It's not good enough either.

I agree, however this is his thread and his downfalls are being highlighted. We can talk about the rest of the team and how s*** they were in the respective threads, no? He has to carry the blame for his short comings, and there were plenty last season. The fact i'm not just going 'f*** off c***' like i feel with pardew or Jonas mean i still hold out hope for him and want him here, he just needs to improve on last season. Not really. His main problem isn't whether he is/isn't good it's that for whatever reason we're utterly reliant on him for goals. Until we moved 4-4-2 the side was built for him to score tbh. The way many said we should operate. We looked a bit better when we went 4-4-2. If you go 1 uptop ideally he leads the line and scores loads. But mostly, it's either to get him goals or for him to bring in everyone else. Fernando Torres still does a decent job assisting and leading the line for Chelsea. He just won't score. Papiss is the other type similar to Demba. If he's up top by himself, it's for him to score bucketloads. So while everyone else was poor. The system was built around Cisse the way many here wanted. Even if it failed - badly and we still didn't create loads.

Aye, right again TT. I don't even bother with the Jonas thread. Most times he should be benched - end of. There's a real discussion to be had with Papiss on the other hand.

How many goals did he score after Ba left? 6?

That's another excellent point. His record isn't as good as people make it. In top divisions he's had 2 good seasons. 22 in 32 one year. And 22 in 31 the next which is brilliant no doubt.

It worked and it still does to a degree. You get the worst Tiote performances without Cabaye and vice-versa. Tiote helps out with the running, Cabaye has more licence to pass. BUt most importantly, Tiote does less passing and Cabaye does less legwork.

I do think from deep with more passing options hes a player

Agreed. Had a bang when he started but he went on to look garbage outside a few games.

Like the S'hampton winner. Like James says, swings and roundabouts.

Yes. It's just annoying hearing that. It might be true of Benteke or a 15 goal striker in the side that finished 15th. Or even a lad scoring 6 goals in the last 8 games or something after not getting much of a look in ala Tevez.

Vidic is going through a lot of injuries. Ferdinand has gotten over his woes.

Hodgson is good at creating counter-attacking teams. All that is going to result in is draws against weakish sides and draws against better sides.

I can't imagine his passing could be so bad at CM tbh

His passing is very erratic. And he's physically immense but he has the knack for a great final ball sometimes. Which is why he could be usefull wide. Whenever i've seen him play he's been the second striker. Was good for 3 games and very bad for most of the rest except Benfica away.

Sissoko's never a #10. Not sure he's even a good player imo. Loses the ball a terrible amount. Probably a CM or wide forward imo.

I agree that Shearer should have been played less - no reason why we couldn't have rotated Bellamy, Kluivert and Shearer and retained a still very good strikeforce and got the most out of all of them. But.. nothing Bellamy has done since has shown that we could have built a very good side around him alone. He wasn't and isn't good enough to have a side built around him. 1 in 2 for Blackburn. Earned himself some big transfers and played well in those teams. Lasted longer at City than Shay for one. He's also the type of player that can do well for most sides. By build a team around him - you just play him tbh. Not denying he is a good player, but I don't he has ever been the type of player you build a team around. You build a team around a player like Ronaldo or Bale or Suarez etc. Not a guy who has never scored more than 13 league goals in a season and averages a goal every 3.25 games. Yeah my point is - all you have to do is play him. I don't think you have to build a team around him. Souness put the money on Shearer over Bellamy and that was a bad move is all i'm saying. Apart from his spell in Celtic and Blackburn, he's played in wideish roles since. 17 in 32 or 13 in 27 isn't bad at all imo.

An 8 goal striker isn't the reason we stayed up.

Agreed. IMO he stuck around another season or two to show Man Utd. can overcome Man City at their best. Arsenal had their time then fergie pegged them back. Chelsea too, then Man Ut.d 3-peated. City won, he made sure the balance was restored.

The best Man United side imo developed hot on the heels of the most competitive Premiership era. Chelsea had a great side, Liverpool too and Arsenal with some class players too. IMO Fergie will always eventually raise his game. The Mourinho/Benitez era spawned a Man Utd. side that went to 3 CL finals in 4 years.

I agree that Shearer should have been played less - no reason why we couldn't have rotated Bellamy, Kluivert and Shearer and retained a still very good strikeforce and got the most out of all of them. But.. nothing Bellamy has done since has shown that we could have built a very good side around him alone. He wasn't and isn't good enough to have a side built around him. 1 in 2 for Blackburn. Earned himself some big transfers and played well in those teams. Lasted longer at City than Shay for one. He's also the type of player that can do well for most sides. By build a team around him - you just play him tbh.

Shearer simply carried too much influence in his last few seasons. He basically played every game until he retired. That hasn't happened with the likes of Lampard who haven't had the type of injuries Shearer did. Not just league games either was it? A lot of EURO games. I do think a lot of players including Bellamy got too big for their britches towards the end of SbR's tenure. I'm sure they all realise they messed up the best thing that happened to them.