The College Dropout

I cannot convey how relentless I am as a human being. And lucky.

They need to let someone clear house. I don't know how that's possible considering FFP. There are a lot of talented players they would need to sell at a amortisation loss.

I've never claimed we should be top 4 or anything like that so these are all irrelevant questions. Yes he is unproven as an elite-level coach. His highest achievement in the professional game is finishing 4th and a league cup final. His first season with European football led to a collapse in league form. Where's your proof of the bolded? In terms of position, I don't even think that was true under Ashley. Our wage bill would've been around 11th/12th highest in the league. After January last season, our net spend was top 5 in Europe since the takeover. Read this thread - our expenditure to the 2023 accounts is consistently high across wages, amortisation costs. Squad cost = 7th. Wages = 7th. To finish 4th last season, excellent job. We did very well to finish above Spurs & Liverpool (considering Chelsea weren't competitive). If we finish 9th or lower this season... it's a bad season. https://x.com/KieranMaguire/status/1762492756830888268?s=20 I expect us to finish 7th/8th because i think we have good players and a good manager. The fixtures are favourable and we are getting players back. Confidence seems shot and the system broken which makes me anxious. And as I've said repeatedly - I don't hold Eddie solely account for successes or failures. The squad and the leadership are also responsible. We did so well last season because everything went in our favour. The transfers were excellent, the coaching was excellent, lucky with injuries. This year, the transfers have been a mixed bag, unlucky with injuries, the coaching has been exposed at times etc.

Exactly. So many people regard Howe in a stratosphere that is just unproven.

I think it was you that said Kudus wasn’t any good either. Poor track record.

Spelt Atleti wrong. Dont trust him.

The club is playing nice and safe with all the rules introduced to stop us. Nothing we've done has been challenged. I guess the club has seen that as a success. I think we should be pushing the boundaries hard. Let's go to arbitration, let's go to court, let's debate. Let's show we have deep pockets and stamina to get what we want. Playing nice has no upside until niceties are returned.

At the start of this season he looked strong and mobile. He just seemed to do everything a moment quicker than he used too. I hope that Anderson is still here. If so he’ll be pushing for a start.

Nope. Me and Kaka weren't talking about the same things and we reached a mutual understanding.

Sir, we are 11th and looking baaaaaaad. It's about my own personal opinion. I'm intrigued by what the club does if we don't finish in Europe. But I don't want to see it.

I also need to see him in another European campaign to see if he's learnt lessons. You can't replicate the intensity of the CL but we'll get an idea with any Euro competition. He's had the harshest introduction to European football of any manager I can remember. Straight into the big leagues and a group of death. And a style least compatible with competing in CL, league etc.

For me btw.. Howe's achievements last season has given him enough credit to get the whole of this season. I think I need to see green shoots of recovery by the end of the season for me to be convinced he's the right man for next season. Liverpool went 8 wins in 9 towards the end of last season for example. I don't need to see that but I need to see something.

Fair enough. You didn't quote any of those people in your recent run of posts. The discussion is about our manager's pedigree and where people have him ranked vs other managers. But fair enough we are talking about different things and people. I agree - a lot of notable people on Twitter are Howe-out and that doesn't make sense to me at all. I don't even really believe it. I think it's engagement baiting. That Rob M is one of them.

@The Prophet Klopp improved the final league position with Dortmund every season until winning the league. We are headed towards a substantial regression. That's a major difference. Howe's tenure is closer to Arteta's. But that first-full season was genuinely bad. He was deservedly under pressure and they were right to question him and his ability. I suspect Howe will be allowed to turn it around much like Arteta too.

Who doesn't want to give Howe time? Not anyone in the last few pages.

Agreed. I think we are both less emotionally attached to Howe than most on here.

You can't. His achievements at Aberdeen were akin to what Klopp achieved at Dortmund, what Mourinho did at Porto, what Rafa dad Valencia. Maybe greater. It marked him as likely the best British manager of his generation and all the top clubs in England wanted him. Without the proven and sustained track record of success at the elite level at Aberdeen, Ferguson gets sacked at Man Utd. But he had pedigree at the highest level. And this is a 40-year-old example. No manager will be given that time again and Howe certainly won't. But managers with proven track-records will continue to get more leeway than those that don't. For obvious reasons.

I agree with all of this. I think it warps people's perspectives of what is happening when you assume Howe is the next Klopp and don't entertain the idea that he might be closer to the next Brendan Rodgers (a manager with a great career I would add).

I recognise the excellent work and the progress the club has made to date and the stability he has brought to the club. But there are multiple posters on this very thread trying to claim his career's achievements are comparable to Jurgen Klopp. Why would he have been sacked or hounded it? He took a club that finished 13th the previous season and 9th the year before to 6th, 5th, league winners, then league and cup double and a CL final. That's 4 years of straight progression. The Klopp comparison doesn't work. They do not have the same career or track record (they have similarities in coaching style). I'm not completely ruling it out. I don't have "Howe is elite" as my assumption of his abilities as many here do because I don't think there's evidence for it. I rate him, I think he'll end the season strongly and think we can do very well next season with him at the helm. I'm just not convinced he's the next Fergie or Klopp. This is a balanced take.. it isn't if you think he's the best English manager since Bryan Clough.

You’re still forcing the Klopp comparison. And it doesn’t even fit. When people talk of him as being of that level - they are the extremists wishing upon a star. The evidence doesn’t support that.

If you think he’s our Fergie, you’re the one with the extremist perspective. It’s plenty on here that compare him favourably to Klopp or Guardiola. And there just isn’t the evidence for that at the elite level.

At his best he sets the tone for the team mentally. Aggressive, sharp, committed.

I think a chancer is maybe a bit far. I agree that having disputes over loans doesn't look good on her character.

The Cole Palmer comparison is a little weird because.. Cole Palmer is a standout player in the PL.. the don't play in the same positions primarily and they are different types of players. One is right footed, the other is left footed. Gordon's competition is Rashford and Grealish. Potentially Foden too. Palmer's competition is Saka & Bowen.

Agreed. Such a grafter. I think he looked tired at points yesterday but was one of the better performers. I liked a lot of his movement at ST running off the shoulder & coming deep to linkup