Teasy

A table based on opinion.. wow how worthwhile

I think the two of them have had the same argument with others and have probably just get sick of repeating themselves, I don't think you're the problem, it's probably just the number of times they've said it. Yeah ok that's probably it, still, wish they could just have discussed it. They could even have changed my mind then as I'm perfectly open to a reasonable argument. Anyway I'm sorry I even brought it up now! I won't continue it anyway, I'm still interested to hear there views on Ashley's time here, but I'm not going to even entertain any more bickering.

I can post exactly what you just posted in reference to your words and we can both go on indefinately discounted what the other person says as just words that mean nothing, sound fun? Or you could get past the childish behaviour and actually enter into a discussion. The point I was making is that I did not say it was impossible for a club to lose value. Just that the risk of something that would drop the value (relegation) was insignificant when Ashley arrived (yes what I said was mainly in reference to NUFC, not all of Football).

Chez and Liam O do know what they are talking about, it's what they are paid to do. I didn't say anything about what they know or don't know about business finance. Unlike them I'm willing to actually argue my point rather then posting such pearls as "you don't know what you're talking about", wow you've changed my mind then My view is that Ashley seems like quite a risk taker at times, but when it came to NUFC he really wasn't willing to take anything but the minimum of risk. You know if someone disagrees with that then I'd really appreciate them posting there views on Ashley's time here. That would be for more constructive and interesting then cheap insults or throw away lines about who does or doesn't know what they're talking about. You seem to be the only person able to discuss something.

What??!! The Share Price was a direct response to this which I quoted at the time. So that is where you are wrong put simply. Its a load of rubbish. I've not once tried to relate ten year old share prices to Ashley's selling price. I could have used any club's share price to illustrate football clubs losing value. Newcastles was simply the easiest to find. Carry on with the Straw man argument though 'Clubs dont lose their value overnight' is quite stunning in its stupidity. A championship club is less valuable than a premiership club and that really can happen overnight. A club imploding in turmoil can also happen overnight and then you end up with no one interested in the place, i.e. not valuable to anyone. That can happen over the course of a season if you buy a club in relegation trouble to begin with or completely fuck up a club like Newcastle. Relegation was never a realistic risk when Ashley bought the club, just think before you post FFS

What??!! The Share Price was a direct response to this which I quoted at the time. So that is where you are wrong put simply. Its a load of rubbish. I've not once tried to relate ten year old share prices to Ashley's selling price. I could have used any club's share price to illustrate football clubs losing value. Newcastles was simply the easiest to find. Carry on with the Straw man argument though You posted share data for the last 8 years or so, which is just irrelivant at the moment. Football clubs are in demand and the fact is Ashley has bought a club for over its estimated value, turned it into a disaster and will now sell for a profit. Yes, what a risk he took eh?

Your idea that he is 'taking the same risk' when betting on the markets is just stupid and shows that you dont understand what your are posting. Do you think you're actually telling me something by posting that?, or that it even effects my point? It would seem so considering your attempted smug condescending attitude Of course you need to assess the risk vs the return in something before investing. Its not something special that you needed to cut and past something for, its basic logic and doesn't effect my point at all. He could choose to take bigger risks at NUFC with the potential for better returns, but he wasn't willing to do so. Don't know why you think I said he's taking the same risk when betting on the markets as he is when investing in NUFC, I didn't say that, take the time to read my posts properly in future please.

What Ashley wants and ends up getting are totally different so using hypothetical figures for an argument is fairly useless, and that would be the same if I guessed he'd get £100 million and used that to build an argument around. That wouldn't really be the same considering there's absolutely no chance he's going to sell for £100 million Fair enough he might sell for £250, so I take your point on using exact figures. But really you can replace the £280 figure with any other figure that brings a profit or even breaks even and it still supports my point. Do you realistically see him selling for any kind of loss, let alone a significant one?

He said he'd put £20 million a year in, that's more than anybody else has done before. He said he did yes, where did it go? Not on transfers, not on wages considering they're well covered by revenue. Not on yearly debt payments because he says he already paid the debts. Not on past player transfers because there's more money coming in from past transfers then going out.

Oh please, share prices? They were notoriously inflated, the club was worth £200 million when Ashley bought it (based on the actual settled price at the time and with the debt added on). A a year later its in ruins, no manager and Ashley hated and chased out of the club, yet now its going to sell for £280 million. Considering what's happened shouldn't the club be worth well under £200 million?, that is if its at such a big risk of losing value. You're on the wind up aren't you? mackems.gif Unless you're absolutely clueless. Again tell me where I'm wrong? What you're doing at the moment just screams "I don't want to agree but I've got no idea how I can argue with you". Take a page out of Mick's book. Bringing up share prices from nearly 10 years ago is such a weak argument. Again just look at what he's paid for the club, the state the clubs in, and then ask yourself do you really believe he's going to take a loss when selling? If the answer is no then ask yourself why the fuck not if it was such a risk.

You think he's lost more on share dealing than he's made? mackems.gif I bow to your superior financial knowledge. I don't think that, I don't know nor care. Its irrelivant to me how good Mike Ashley is at picking winners at the bookies. My only problem with it is that he's got no problem with gambling (real gambling not making a solid investment like NUFC) hundred of millions of pounds yet he's not willing to take the same kind of risk with even a quarter of the money at NUFC.

Oh please, share prices? They were notoriously inflated, the club was worth £200 million when Ashley bought it (based on the actual settled price at the time and with the debt added on). A a year later its in ruins, no manager and Ashley hated and chased out of the club, yet now its going to sell for £280 million. Considering what's happened shouldn't the club be worth well under £200 million?, that is if its at such a big risk of losing value.

I honestly think he'll struggle to make much of a profit on the club sale and I think Premiership clubs are going to struggle just like almost every other business sector over the next couple of years. A couple of clubs are almost immune because of who owns the clubs but even they are in danger to some extent. But he will make a profit. How can a Football club be considered a risky investment if you can come in, ruin it, be chased out with pitchforks and still make any kind of profit on the sale?

I'm sorry Teasy, but it really isn't that straight forward. It is, you'll see when he sells up, not only will he make everything back he'll come on with profit. Despite the club being in a total mess. Buy a Football club, fuck it up, the fans demand you leave and still you make a profit, what a risky purchase that was eh?

You really haven't got a clue what you're talking about in terms of the debt part of what he's done have you? Why don't you explain it then? He's paid off a debt which then increases the price of his own asset, where am I wrong? Enlighten me. Easy 1) there's actually little difference between the rubbish in your first paragraph rather than "a big difference" like you say 2) he wasn't "forced to pay off the debt" 3) the idea he's not risked a penny is quite frankly stupid. As an example, if we got relegated last season, do you think he'd have got that money back? 4) how do you know the share bet was "very" dodgy at the time? Do you believe everything you read in the papers? All financial transactions carry a risk. Just like paying that debt off did. No idea what you're on about with number one. He was forced to pay off debt, the club changing ownership triggered that, something he's never refuted. To talk about relegation as a risk when he came in would be mental quite frankly, if you take consider that to be a risk of the same level as share betting (something that's actually gone tits up for him as well I might add) then I don't know what to say to you, don't go near a bookies maybe?

How do you know that the money he was forced to pay (about £45m?) wasn't earmarked for transfers? Do you think the new owners of West Ham potentially having to pay £30m compensation to Sheff Utd won't have an impact on their transfer budget? That money becomes an asset that he's going to get back though, are we to believe he physically can't find anymore cash for transfers but he can go to the bookies and make £300 million bets?

He didn't have to pay off as many of the loans as he did, he had to pay off something like £45 million. As for him not being willing to risk a penny, I'll go back to the £240 million that he's spent so far, that's a risk as he's not guaranteed to get his money back when he sells up. This is a very bad time to try to get large sums of money out of anybody as banks are just not lending to anybody and those who will give out loans are asking for a lot of interest in return. My guess is that we're probably needing a cash buyer and I don't think they grow on trees. Premiership clubs don't lose there worth over night, in fact its pretty hard to lose worth at all unless you get relegated or go into administration. Just look at the current situation, he's bought the club for £133 million, more then it was worth at the time. He's then spent £100 million on debt. Since then the clubs gone on a downward spiral and is currently in a worse position then its been in its Premiership history, surely he can't get that £233 million back right?, not if was a risk in the first place. But you watch he's going to walk away with a profit overall.

You really haven't got a clue what you're talking about in terms of the debt part of what he's done have you? Why don't you explain it then? He's paid off a debt which then increases the price of his own asset, where am I wrong? Enlighten me. I was as happy as the next man when he paid off the debt. But everything that's happened since has made me think a hell of a lot more cynically about the whole thing. It seems all he was willing to do with Newcastle was play it safe, invest in nothing but the safest ways, money that he was guarenteed to recover. Fine if that's his nature, but at the same time he throws more money then it took to buy the club and pay off debt on a bet, a fucking bet!

No matter what anybody says about him, he's invested more into this club than anybody in our history. Yet once he's gone he'll have done nothing but take money out like all the rest. Fine, Newcastle United isn't a charity of course, so I'm not asking for any. What I'd have liked is a man who was prepared to risk a little on trying the make the club a success, especially when he's willing to risk £300 million on a seemingly idiotic share bet.

The only thing Ashley likes to throw tons of money at is stock share gambling. he threw lots of money at karrimor,lillywhites,kangol etc. Did he?, to what extent and on what? Cheap stock to sell on at a profit? to buy them outright and they are still part of sports direct group. Not what I was talking about in the slightest, I can go and buy a house outright to rent out , but if I then leave it in a shitty state it could hardly be claimed that I 'threw money at it'.

No I'm saying that it means fuck all and frankly I can't believe anyones naive enough to still think about it in that way given the current situation. There's a big difference between buying a club and paying off debts and actually risking some money on making that club successful. He's spent money on a solid asset and then paid off debts (that he was forced to pay BTW) that have linearly increased the price of that asset. The fact is he's not willing to actually risk a penny on the club. On the other hand he'll risk £300 million on a very dodgy share bet.

The only thing Ashley likes to throw tons of money at is stock share gambling. he threw lots of money at karrimor,lillywhites,kangol etc. Did he?, to what extent and on what? Cheap stock to sell on at a profit?

Agreed, the tight bastard has only invested £240 million in us. Yeah ok mackems.gif

The only thing Ashley likes to throw tons of money at is stock share gambling.

I haven't found any quotes saying that anyone's turned down anything yet. The telegraph just seemed to say they had but didn't back it with anything. Can you link me or enlighten me? I was only questioning the Telegraphs reasoning, no idea if any of those have actually turned down any consortium or not.