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I know. But... the only thing is, wise heads said the same thing the before Keegan's constructive dismissal. Louise Taylor was right, the Board were shite.

It's those 'apart from todays' that can be the distinction between the good and the great though. Haven't seen today's match, which is a massive caveat, but it's disappointing to hear he's had a bad one in the biggest game of his season so far. Not that Krul hasn't had his fair share of balls ups in the past, mind. Would be fascinated to know whether being kept as second behind Harper was a positive or negative sign for Krul. Personally, I'd have sent the most promising youngster out on loan with a view to them gaining the experience he (and hence, we) would need in the future - with the assumption being that Harper wouldn't miss too much of the season, of course. Seems like most are under the impression it meant Krul is being given the nod by the coaches at this point, though. Was quoted earlier in the season as saying that the only reason he stayed at the club over the summer (mooted transfers) was that he had a one-to-one conversation with Harps, who told him that he expected Krul to start seeing more playing time as the season progressed. Aye, true, saw that - but thought it could've just been complete bollocks on Harper's/the club's behalf to make him stay just long enough to Forster to be ripe to take over. Pretty tough business, really... clearly one or the other is gonna be chucked within 18 months at most, maybe 6.

It's those 'apart from todays' that can be the distinction between the good and the great though. Haven't seen today's match, which is a massive caveat, but it's disappointing to hear he's had a bad one in the biggest game of his season so far. Not that Krul hasn't had his fair share of balls ups in the past, mind. Would be fascinated to know whether being kept as second behind Harper was a positive or negative sign for Krul. Personally, I'd have sent the most promising youngster out on loan with a view to them gaining the experience he (and hence, we) would need in the future - with the assumption being that Harper wouldn't miss too much of the season, of course. Seems like most are under the impression it meant Krul is being given the nod by the coaches at this point, though.

Agreed. I don't think so. Would be surprised and disappointed if so, so long as Krul remains/keeps gaining assuredness.

Guess it's reasonable to infer that he is from his employment history... also it's a like for like with Calderwood - stern Scottish ex-defender so it'll be like nothing changed... But yeah, it's funny how sometimes people sound like they have really firm opinions on who should be brought in.

On the upside, he might rattle Ashley's daughter, which would be funny. Or Carroll's latest, which would also quickly become funny.

Thought it was Boy George for a minute In all seriousness tbh hitting a woman in any circumstances is totally wrong and unforgivable unless you are being attacked yourself and in self defence fair enough ,this lad has a rap sheet as long as Bartons but not the same level of violence so would you say lets give him another chance or get rid ,all Bartons problems by the look of things have been drink related by all accounts so he gave up the drink and has been a good boy and well done to him and imho Carroll is doing the same thing and @ his age it will be harder too stay on the straight and narrow so in my opinion stay off the Drink for starters but by all accounts his temper causes trouble too so he needs experts to sort his life out . Jesus, punctuate man. Far as I know, which isn't too far, it doesn't seem to be a drink thing with Carroll, not least seeing as he had his run-ins with Taylor and N'Zogbia at the training ground. Actually, the Taylor thing seemed to push him on last season so given how things have been going, maybe he's done this for the good of the club... You say "punctuate man" and come up with a statement "maybe he's done this for the good of the club" is that sarcasm or just a stupid comment please elaborate Run with your sarcasm idea. Maybe surrealism. Yours was a 147 word sentence

Spot on Jonny. Seems it doesn't work like that though. What if you take the view that most of the club is set up for failure and anything better which seems to stem from him which is better than that can be considered virtually supererogatory? This 'balanced, sensible' view that some people seem to have that victory should bring praise and defeat should bring criticism and pressure is dumb to reality. It doesn't take into account the context of any of the events under analysis and it doesn't help achieve what we presumably actually want which is ultimate success. I think it's more that people at one end of the scale think he shouldn't be criticised or held accountable at all tbh. Who? Anyone saying he shouldn't be under pressure tbh, of which there are quite a few. The nature of the job he is paid for means if things aren't going well, he should be under pressure. At home we've had three very poor results on the bounce against three of the poorest sides in the division, that definately deserves criticism. He therefore deserves to be under pressure. Not to the extent of wanting him sacked mind. What sort of pressure and why? What do you think the pressure will achieve for us? Do you think he'll do a better job if everyone knows he'll be out if the next four games don't go in his favour? Being held accountable and being pressurised are two different things, by the way. Related but not indivisible. Having major reasons for a defeat attributed to things that are in your power and fairly clearly should have been different is being reasonably held accountable, having people raising the pitch, getting hysterical and talking about 'consequences' if things don't change, with only all the negative ifs and buts regarding your future decisions being focused upon is being pressurised. I don't even agree with the premise that it's the nature of a team manager's job that if things aren't going well he should be under pressure. He isn't fully the master of his own destiny. He isn't the policy setter. All football managers are managed - by their board. Some things he does control, and if he controls them badly then he should be held accountable. But badness doesn't necessarily equal a failing football manager, the buck really doesn't stop with him. I take the point that major scrutiny is required given our recent home results - I've said so elsewhere previously, they're pretty concerning. All the same, it's probably worth us all remembering the other results these teams and other supposedly shit teams have been getting this season. Us, WBA, Stoke, Wigan and Blackpool have got unexpectedly good results against Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea (not us, by the way), Tottenham (twice), Villa (twice), Man City (twice), Everton and Liverpool. You can even throw in results between themselves (Wigan 0 Blackpool 4, nevermind our upsets etc...). It's a strange season, inconsistent in nature.

Interesting point.

Spot on Jonny. Seems it doesn't work like that though. What if you take the view that most of the club is set up for failure and anything better which seems to stem from him which is better than that can be considered virtually supererogatory? This 'balanced, sensible' view that some people seem to have that victory should bring praise and defeat should bring criticism and pressure is dumb to reality. It doesn't take into account the context of any of the events under analysis and it doesn't help achieve what we presumably actually want which is ultimate success.

Thought it was Boy George for a minute In all seriousness tbh hitting a woman in any circumstances is totally wrong and unforgivable unless you are being attacked yourself and in self defence fair enough ,this lad has a rap sheet as long as Bartons but not the same level of violence so would you say lets give him another chance or get rid ,all Bartons problems by the look of things have been drink related by all accounts so he gave up the drink and has been a good boy and well done to him and imho Carroll is doing the same thing and @ his age it will be harder too stay on the straight and narrow so in my opinion stay off the Drink for starters but by all accounts his temper causes trouble too so he needs experts to sort his life out . Jesus, punctuate man. Far as I know, which isn't too far, it doesn't seem to be a drink thing with Carroll, not least seeing as he had his run-ins with Taylor and N'Zogbia at the training ground. Actually, the Taylor thing seemed to push him on last season so given how things have been going, maybe he's done this for the good of the club...

Again, I see your point but snarling's a lot better a sign than hiding and excusing.

:lol: Prima facie that's fucking funny. I can see your reasoning though - might think that deciding to come here would show something really was wrong with his head. That said, I don't agree - think he had more balls as a toddler than Owen ever has and wouldn't just do what he did, so I'd be happy to have him here as unlikely as that is. Reckon if we have anything going for us at all (admittedly in doubt...), he'd come good - or good enough for us at least.

That's the big thing for me, as soon as he was signed expectations went up a notch or two and they have stayed there despite him being out for potentially the whole season. Yes... People shouldn't forget how shit we were at breaking down teams last season in the second division. Attack has been our weakest action for years, and we've only really made one big signing on that score and, as you say, he's fucked. Tried to get others, but on a groundbreakingly low transfer budget we didn't succeed.

:mackems:

I've almost started to assume the opposite of what he says will happen.

Must be dropped. Gone past the point of showing confidence. Simpson's back and apparently looking good. Even for the player's sake, it's only about protecting whatever reputation he has got - need to stop fans' embarrassment turning to anger. Even if Hughton's convinced he's gonna be world class in the future, he's not gonna be in the next 10 games, so should wait for another opportunity to play him...

I read the poll as being a vote of confidence so couldn't go either way as I don't feel strongly enough at this point one way or the other. Aye, but that's kind of it - an attitude thing. Rare that anything's certain so you have to push yourself to be decisive on a call... You say he hasn't lost you yet so going on that I'd guess you ought to be in the yes camp. I've have concerns sometimes too, obviously, but you just have to swallow them until you're convinced someone must go because having doubts obviously hanging around only makes things worse if anything. Self-fulfilling prophecies, kind of thing.

Surely being unsure about someone is the very definition of not having faith in them... Went for yes. Stand strong and all that. Too much good to just ignore.

The players can be as determined as they like, but if they can't win home games they are not good enough - determination is great but without the necessary skills it is useless. Cream always rises to the top.... Yeah, but that would be a criticism of the players... Hughton can only work the players he has. And it seems he is relatively good at getting better ones. Serious question, who do we think we could get in who'd be an improvement at the moment? Also, maybe more importantly, who do we think we WOULD get in bearing in mind Llambias and Ashley manage us? All things considered, I think I'm inclined to stick... Think there's something to be said for junkhead's attitude. Not saying this is definitely the case, only that it's possible, but it might even be best that we stick with Hughton if we get relegated - if he can/we let him retain his authority, keep running the club the way he wants to etc. with a view to ultimately being better off, as I think he could get us promoted again if we did go down yet again, while still improving things behind the scenes even though things are bad on the pitch. Again, the reason I say this is that I'm scared of who else might come in after him bearing in mind who'd get to decide - things could end up being a lot worse. On a semi-related note, I think too many young, potentially decent managers are booted so soon as a relegation takes place. Stupid the way someone can unexpectedly get a club promoted twice in two seasons and then as soon as they go down from the Premiership they become s***. It's not as though the club's often end up returning thanks to such a decision, after all... Not on the wind up but how do you know things are improving behind the scenes? Any of our Premier League teams before we got relegated would have walked the Championship last year and it would have looked like they too had great team spirit and everything was great behind the scenes. Is it not just the case that we have a lot of very average players who know they'll never be any where better than Newcastle, indeed they probably count their lucky stars that they are playing for the club. Also a sign of how far our standards have dropped that their is not discontent in the camp after two miserable home defeats. I don't just mean the attitude within the squad, and I accept stuff about hard times being when things come to the fore. But by any standards we can judge by, things seem to be a lot better than they have been for a long time. I'm talking about scouting, player development (we've seen players IMPROVE/DEVELOP in the last 18 months, not stay the same or get worse, which hasn't been the case since Robson if not earlier - also fielding decent looking kids in the League Cup etc.), yes morale, but also discipline - even when things were good, or at least good by our standards, we still managed to fit a few gang rape headlines in amidst the success. Important point, and again something demonstrable that I think Hughton can take credit for - I don't just mean discipline in terms of players not hitting each other () but the way he/we managed to shut down the story, prevent leaks, and have it essentially forgotten about within a few days. His interviews make Alan Shearer look like Graham Norton, and that's a talent we've needed and probably will need for a while to come... There's other stuff I could mention, but surely you can see the gist of my point? Stability mixed with some talent - the idea that we can relax and have patience because in every transfer window gone by he appears to have shown he agrees with us about the weaknesses of the team and seems to have good ideas about who we could get to fix them. If he keeps managing to replace Smiths with Tiotes, you'd like to think in another couple of years he'll get his substitutions right... Another point - can be argued that thing's only looked successful and easy last year because of his work behind the scenes... We were staring at some deep dark shit last year. And who knows what ugly stuff might have crept up during the season but never did because of things we never found out about. Stopping stuff before it starts, making it look like the club and he have been on easy street - again, a hell of a talent which he might just have. Time will tell.

The players can be as determined as they like, but if they can't win home games they are not good enough - determination is great but without the necessary skills it is useless. Cream always rises to the top.... Yeah, but that would be a criticism of the players... Hughton can only work the players he has. And it seems he is relatively good at getting better ones. Serious question, who do we think we could get in who'd be an improvement at the moment? Also, maybe more importantly, who do we think we WOULD get in bearing in mind Llambias and Ashley manage us? All things considered, I think I'm inclined to stick... Think there's something to be said for junkhead's attitude. Not saying this is definitely the case, only that it's possible, but it might even be best that we stick with Hughton if we get relegated - if he can/we let him retain his authority, keep running the club the way he wants to etc. with a view to ultimately being better off, as I think he could get us promoted again if we did go down yet again, while still improving things behind the scenes even though things are bad on the pitch. Again, the reason I say this is that I'm scared of who else might come in after him bearing in mind who'd get to decide - things could end up being a lot worse. On a semi-related note, I think too many young, potentially decent managers are booted so soon as a relegation takes place. Stupid the way someone can unexpectedly get a club promoted twice in two seasons and then as soon as they go down from the Premiership they become shit. It's not as though the club's often end up returning thanks to such a decision, after all...

More comfortable is the way I'd put it. Our form has been more promising than the alternative of beating rivals and losing when we're expected to, lets us have bigger ideas about the future, but if we'd emphatically smashed Stoke and Wolves instead, I'd probably feel it was less likely we're gonna nosedive at some point in the season. It would promise less in the short/medium term, but feel more reliable. At the moment, you have to worry we'll keep picking up losses in 6 pointers and help our rivals, but at some time forget how to beat the big teams or run out of luck against them or whatever the pessimistic slant would be that you'd want to put on our victories. We'll only know at the end of the season that we can keep doing what we've been doing - and if we can and do, then it'll be time for a big inquest into just why we're like that...

I don't understand this comment...

To be fair to Lineker, he's not supposed to express opinions. He's there to present the show and direct the conversation. True to an extent, yeah, although a good host can pull off both I'd say. But yeah, he just came to mind as he obviously does have thoughts on things, and they still leak out occasionally (especially on Eriksson...), but he and admittedly more importantly the others bottled up when the FA got uppity.