OzzieMandias

Ashley has already put around £200 million of his own money into the club, which is around £200 million more than Shepherd ever did. Do you interpret this as a representing a desire for the club NOT to succeed? You can't really classify the £200m he spent as being money 'put into the club'. How much was the buy-out? £140m? The club hasn't seen a penny of that. Where does the other £60m come from? Our net spending is approximately £15m, and that's what he's put into the club so far, excluding other unknown expenditure like developing the training ground, hiring in new staff etc. Well, even if he only put £1.50 into the club that would be £1.50 more than Shepherd ever put in. As for the difference between £140 million and £200 million, you have perhaps missed the stories about the extent of the debt which has been left behind by Shepherd. £60 million is probably an underestimate ? most have pegged it at around £80 million. By taking on that debt, Ashley is actually paying for our recent player purchases under Shepherd. That is a good point about the debt, wasn't thinking about it. Anyhow, the point still stands that he hasn't actually put that much money 'into' the club, and it's pretty obvious that in the long-run, he'll be taking money out of the club. That's what billionaire businessmen do to stay as billionaires. Still better than what Shepherd did -- pay himself dividends in order to buy more shares. Though on a much smaller scale, that's a bit like the kind of leveraged buy-out that the Glazer family used to buy Man U. They got the club, but borrowed to purchase against future revenues, and as a result Man U is now saddled with a £680 million debt.

Ashley has already put around £200 million of his own money into the club, which is around £200 million more than Shepherd ever did. Do you interpret this as a representing a desire for the club NOT to succeed? You can't really classify the £200m he spent as being money 'put into the club'. How much was the buy-out? £140m? The club hasn't seen a penny of that. Where does the other £60m come from? Our net spending is approximately £15m, and that's what he's put into the club so far, excluding other unknown expenditure like developing the training ground, hiring in new staff etc. Well, even if he only put £1.50 into the club that would be £1.50 more than Shepherd ever put in. As for the difference between £140 million and £200 million, you have perhaps missed the stories about the extent of the debt which has been left behind by Shepherd. £60 million is probably an underestimate – most have pegged it at around £80 million. By taking on that debt, Ashley is actually paying for our recent player purchases under Shepherd.

Ashley has already put around £200 million of his own money into the club, which is around £200 million more than Shepherd ever did. Do you interpret this as a representing a desire for the club NOT to succeed?

I see, then, that little has indeed changed since I tried to get interested in magyar labdarügás.

I'm sure everyone won't be happy with simply qualifying for Europe forever, but for this season it would obviously represent success. We're not in the position we were when people were moaning about qualifying for Europe, your standards have to change depending on where you find yourself. Not moving the goalposts at all. I'm only saying I hope the new board will be more successful than the last one mate, unfortunately there are quite a lot of people who actually really think the last one did really s*** and don't realise how well the new ones are going to have to do if they are to be better. Fair enough, I do believe that the old board had taken us as far as they were going to so this is a good time for a change. A lot remains to be seen and there's no gaurantees, though I agree that we have the right manager in place to get things going in the right direction and I've been encouraged by the actions of the new people so far. And I know FS appointed that manager, every dog has his day I suppose. More like the monkey with the typewriter and infinite time eventually banging out the complete works of Shakespeare.

Allardyce on the backing he's had. ?We?ve invested well, I?ve spent more than I?ve ever spent this summer and I?m grateful for that,? explained a manager who has so far signed seven players. ?I?m fortunate to have that, I?ve been able to invest more on transfer fees and more on wages and I?ve got bigger and better players. When you do that you have more quality, you can play better football. When you don?t, it?s about upsetting bigger and better teams, it?s about embarrassing them and it?s something you don?t get credit for. You?re doing it with lesser players and that makes you better than them. But it also means people start saying you?re something you?re not.? http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/journalsport/tm_method=full%26objectid=19618467%26siteid=50081-name_page.html how come chaps like you riducule the Chronicle, then take bits that suit you Never mind. I expect you will ignore this mind : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/premiership/newcastle/article2240973.ece Whether the new owner will let me spend as much as Freddy would have is something we?ll find out come the end of August [when the transfer window closes] but there?s a few players I?ve targeted, either for August or when the window reopens in January, and so far, so good.? and THAT, is all I have said. No more, no less. Quite amazing how you and others are jumping around just because a post isn't either totally anti-Shepherd, or pro-Ashley. But I expected that from the likes of you too. You ridicule the Times, then take the bits that suit you though. Their claims about the Owen clause, which turned out to be correct, is one example that springs to mind. Also, that Chronicle article quoted above has crediblity because it contains direct quotes rather than just supposition. I suspect you realise this though. just so long as its either anti Shepherd/Hall or pro-Ashley eh Alex mackems.gif I don't ridicule the Times BTW, just certain pompous journos when they publish "opinions", especially something about Newcastle because it is anti-Newcastle , most of who are the same people who laughingly said that Keegan "spent a load of money and failed because he won nothing" For the record, I have taken on board both quotes. See my post earlier where I state "Just because I want to believe Ashley will back the board more than the Halls and Shepherd doesn't mean I'm stupid enough to pretend they have just yet". Because, basically, whatever you want to believe, they haven't. Not yet. And you don't know if they will or not any more than I do. Yet. Who really gives a toss whether anything is "anti-Shepherd"? He's history, and 99 percent of supporters are glad to be rid of him.

by dishing the dirt on them to London journos who hate Newcastle United. Perhaps you can explain how arranging for an interview for a representative of the Hitzfeld campaign to respond to a diss from our former chairman -- an interview which never even happened, and wasn't going to be done by me if it had done -- meets this ridiculous description that your trot out dementedly whenever I make a point to which you have no answer. And then again, perhaps you can't.

I've seen too many highly rated players come in from other leagues and then flop. I'll just wait and see how he does, thanks.

Isit £8M for Nobby and Dyer? Not too bad. The current story is £7 million for Dyer.

Aye, Brentford, Barnet... maybe Leyton Orient.

There's really not much mileage left in this issue for the sad fucks who are desperate to diss their own club and denounce Ashley and Mort before they've barely got their feet under the desk. An extra million for Dyer, West Ham's already threadbare credibility further undermined by accusations of dodgy dealings from Derby re Baines, and Ashley continuing to back the manager with the looming arrival of Faye, our eighth summer signing.

I didn't know that about Vasas! Funny! I made the trip up to Ujpest once, and watched a derby against Ferencvaros. The two biggest teams in the country, deadly rivals, and they still couldn't quite fill this crumbling, concrete stadium that looked like nothing had happened to it since 1969, except for bits falling off. There was a pathetic fracas where a few Fradi fans tore down a bit of the fence separating them from the pitch and set fire to a few newspapers and stuff and a couple of dozen riot police with shields moved in to head them off. Can't even remember the score. Ujpest fans are nice, honest folk compared to Ferencvaros supporters. Salt of the earth. Ferencvaros are like Millwall.

Face it, man, NE5. He was past his sell-by date. The club as run by Shepherd peaked a few seasons ago. He failed to consolidate on his limited sucess and we were in decline. Now he's history. Get over it.

So you think the 90 percent of Newcastle fans who were happy to see Shepherd go and Ashley come in are motivated solely by irrational prejudice and not by their own assessments formed over a decade of watching Shepherd run the club?

Must other posters who support other teams are top notch and add a lot to this forum but KD is only interested in winding people up. ffs Where exctly have i "winded anyone up" on this topic?? please please point me to it? The fact is i havent and all the points ive made are true so how exactly am i winding anyone up?. Not even Richard Dawkins could unravel KD's 'delusions'. yeah im the delusional one having a go at another supporter for listing "ABOVE AVERAGE" players then listing players of his club that are top drawer when they obviously are not. Listen if youre going to criticise spurs at least criticise us for the things we have faults on (midfelders not being able to defend, some dodgy defenders), but if you try and say things about the amount of goals our strikers score and the midfielders not being able to create chances for the strikers then of course im going to retaliate. Retaliate? If people were coming on a Spurs board and posting this stuff, that word might make a certain kind of adolescent sense. In terms of a conversation between Newcastle fans on here, it's truly stupid.

I'm pinning my hopes on a 0–0 draw.

thats right. We could have been spending the last decade floundering in the lower leagues like Sheff Wed and the mackems to name 2, just like we were pre-1992. Just to prove such things are still possible when you have a s**** board. Oh. And facing extinction, or a club sold for a paltry 10m quid, instead of 130m, such was its value. Proven by the 1991 share issue that couldn't even raise the amount of money that we got when we sold Gazza. Just the way to run a football club. No trophy players. Plenty of average ones. Ritual annual FA Cup humiliations against the likes of Exeter, Chester, Swansea etc etc .... selling our best players, and 20000 crowds. I know that MICK will never acknowledge this, as he either doesn't believe it through not being there, or likes to continue to pull the wool over you younger lads eyes and have you believe differently. Pleased you think we should have bought Miguel instead of Carr mind, increasing the same debt you are criticising. So you're happy the club is £80 million in debt because we've made an attempt at winning things? Would you have been happy to borrow another £30 million to give Allardyce to spend? What do you think of Ridsdale at Leeds and Bates at Chelsea? They borrowed millions to back the manager, I suppose that makes them ambitious chairman too in your book? Would you prefer either of them to Ashley? I'd prefer them to Bob Murray, or the directors we had before, and a canny few other chairman knocking around. Its not so simple as this, I thought someone like YOU would have known this. Would you have preferred these people to Shepherd and Hall, or Belgravia ? The majority of the debt is "manageable" based on season ticket sales, like your mortgage, if you have one. Even macbeth admits that. As it happens, I think Ken Bates is another stupid cockney b******, but I feel sorry for Ridsdale, he got carried away with being chairman of his club, I think the Irish gasbag O'Leary was just as much to blame as he must have known he was outspending the clubs resources. Just goes to show you that even the best laid "plans" come unstuck. At least we had a better "plan" than they did eh ? So would you have preferred Shepherd to borrow another £30 million on top of the £80 million we already owe to back Allardyce? If you cast your mind back, I quite clearly stated that last summer - when the vast majority of people were urging the board to "splash the cash" - that the money wasn't there. I also - probably - said to you also that people had to accept that short term signings such as Sibierski, Rossi etc were necessary due to these debts, yet people still insisted that we should be spending more money. A position which has came about by Souness' wild selling and sales spree, moves which are still backed by many people on here, including Ozzie Mandiarse, among many others. You can't complain about the club being in debt, or choosing to spend a lot of the clubs money on poor players, when you supported the actions of the manager who caused it. So you are really addressing that question to the wrong person. As i said, anything which is anti-Shepherd or pro-Ashley goes. At least jimmymag, in his criticism of the board over this Dyer business, is applying some consistency to his comments. Good for him. So it was great for Shepherd not to back the manager last summer, but not great for Ashley not to back the manager this summer, even though the debt is still the same?

Well, that conclusively proves that Ashley is little better than a fiendish reincarnation of Gordon McKeag, Mort is a liar and Magnusson is a model football club chairman. you can stop fiendishly dishing the dirt on your club to scumbag cockney journos who hate Newcastle now. Easy. Never started. But tell me, do you mean "scumbag cockneys" like West Ham United? or scumbag West Ham journo fans like Paul McCarthy ? Pleased you had something in common with him are you ie dishing the dirt on your own Paul McCarthy? First time I ever heard the name. Who is he? Was in the Beatles you dopey fucker! Aye, but I thought he was a Liverpool supporter.

thats right. We could have been spending the last decade floundering in the lower leagues like Sheff Wed and the mackems to name 2, just like we were pre-1992. Just to prove such things are still possible when you have a s**** board. Oh. And facing extinction, or a club sold for a paltry 10m quid, instead of 130m, such was its value. Proven by the 1991 share issue that couldn't even raise the amount of money that we got when we sold Gazza. Just the way to run a football club. No trophy players. Plenty of average ones. Ritual annual FA Cup humiliations against the likes of Exeter, Chester, Swansea etc etc .... selling our best players, and 20000 crowds. I know that MICK will never acknowledge this, as he either doesn't believe it through not being there, or likes to continue to pull the wool over you younger lads eyes and have you believe differently. Pleased you think we should have bought Miguel instead of Carr mind, increasing the same debt you are criticising. So you're happy the club is £80 million in debt because we've made an attempt at winning things? Would you have been happy to borrow another £30 million to give Allardyce to spend? What do you think of Ridsdale at Leeds and Bates at Chelsea? They borrowed millions to back the manager, I suppose that makes them ambitious chairman too in your book? Would you prefer either of them to Ashley? I'd prefer them to Bob Murray, or the directors we had before, and a canny few other chairman knocking around. Its not so simple as this, I thought someone like YOU would have known this. Would you have preferred these people to Shepherd and Hall, or Belgravia ? The majority of the debt is "manageable" based on season ticket sales, like your mortgage, if you have one. Even macbeth admits that. As it happens, I think Ken Bates is another stupid cockney bastard, but I feel sorry for Ridsdale, he got carried away with being chairman of his club, I think the Irish gasbag O'Leary was just as much to blame as he must have known he was outspending the clubs resources. Just goes to show you that even the best laid "plans" come unstuck. At least we had a better "plan" than they did eh ? So the answer is "no", then, you wouldn't prefer these chairmen who "back their managers"?

So how is this Paul McCarthy relevant to the issue of the on-off Dyer transfer, and the integrity and competence of our current owner and chairman, in contrast with their counterparts from West Ham United?

Well, that conclusively proves that Ashley is little better than a fiendish reincarnation of Gordon McKeag, Mort is a liar and Magnusson is a model football club chairman. you can stop fiendishly dishing the dirt on your club to scumbag cockney journos who hate Newcastle now. Easy. Never started. But tell me, do you mean "scumbag cockneys" like West Ham United? or scumbag West Ham journo fans like Paul McCarthy ? Pleased you had something in common with him are you ie dishing the dirt on your own Paul McCarthy? First time I ever heard the name. Who is he? mackems.gif integrity Truth.

Well, that conclusively proves that Ashley is little better than a fiendish reincarnation of Gordon McKeag, Mort is a liar and Magnusson is a model football club chairman. you can stop fiendishly dishing the dirt on your club to scumbag cockney journos who hate Newcastle now. Easy. Never started. But tell me, do you mean "scumbag cockneys" like West Ham United? or scumbag West Ham journo fans like Paul McCarthy ? Pleased you had something in common with him are you ie dishing the dirt on your own Paul McCarthy? First time I ever heard the name. Who is he?

thats right. We could have been spending the last decade floundering in the lower leagues like Sheff Wed and the mackems to name 2, just like we were pre-1992. Just to prove such things are still possible when you have a shite board. Oh. And facing extinction, or a club sold for a paltry 10m quid, instead of 130m, such was its value. Proven by the 1991 share issue that couldn't even raise the amount of money that we got when we sold Gazza. Just the way to run a football club. No trophy players. Plenty of average ones. Ritual annual FA Cup humiliations against the likes of Exeter, Chester, Swansea etc etc .... selling our best players, and 20000 crowds. I know that MICK will never acknowledge this, as he either doesn't believe it through not being there, or likes to continue to pull the wool over you younger lads eyes and have you believe differently. Pleased you think we should have bought Miguel instead of Carr mind, increasing the same debt you are criticising. Yes, all highly relevant to the question of whether to believe our chairman and manager, or those of West Ham United.

Well, that conclusively proves that Ashley is little better than a fiendish reincarnation of Gordon McKeag, Mort is a liar and Magnusson is a model football club chairman. you can stop fiendishly dishing the dirt on your club to scumbag cockney journos who hate Newcastle now. Easy. Never started. But tell me, do you mean "scumbag cockneys" like West Ham United?